Seeking advice... PCC as a potential armed self-defense solution for elderly home defenders

Bladesmith

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I have never owned a PCC, and lack specific knowledge of them. So I could use advice pertaining to if a PCC might help resolve some issues one of my clients is facing. I have an elderly client. She is none-the-less very motivated to gain knowledge/skills and the right equipment to enable her to be effective in armed self-defense, mainly at home.

She is mentally sharp, and her eyes are ok, but she is physically weak. She was initially intent on learning handgun. She arrived with a couple revolvers that had belonged to her husband, but it was clear from the beginning that she lacked the strength to hold on to little pistol grips, and she could not effectively use a double action trigger. So we ditched the wheel guns, and began experimenting with modern semi-auto 9mms with single action triggers.

This provided her larger grips to hold on to, and an easier trigger press. We also improved her grip and stance. And she began working on her hand and arm strength.

Given these changes, she's made progress. But, frankly, if we're honest with ourselves, although she's been at it for a few months, she still lacks the hand and arm strength needed to sufficiently manage recoil and control the firearm in ways that will make her effective if she needed to defend herself at home.

Speaking with her recently, she agrees that she doesn't anticipate her strength will ever improve enough to make her truly effective with that platform. She does not want to give up, and I encouraged her not to. This is just an exercise in adapting tactics, equipment, skills, etc. to enable someone who is partially physically disabled.

As I think about how best to help her, we considered experimenting with .22 handguns. Possibly, something like the new sig P322 handgun looks as if it may be something she could be effective with in terms of shot placement and recoil management. That said, we'd give up quite a bit in terms of the effectiveness of the round itself. This in mind, I'm wondering if a 9mm PCC, might be a better solution for her.

I'd welcome your thoughts and opinions on that. I'd also welcome any knowledge members might share about advantages/disadvantages of different makes or models.

If a PCC might be better as a solution, she'd do well with one that is relatively light. Of course, good ergonomics. And probably one that could readily accommodate a suppressor. Also, I'd seek one that doesn't hit her with a bunch of blowback in the face when she practices with it.

Lastly, she is now familiar with red dot sights. She's trained with them on one of the 9mm pistols I provided. She felt like it made life a lot easier. She would not be intimidated by modern accessories, or a suppressor. Just as long as anything we add is well worth its weight in terms of improving her performance. Thanks so much for knowledge you might share. I'm confident I'll gain knowledge here that will help me be a better teacher and help me help her.

Best, Dan
--
Daniel R. Smith, Ph.D
Lieutenant Colonel, US Army, Retired
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As long as the pcc is compact enough for the clearances in their home and the user has the necessary grip strength to work the charging handle I can't see any down sides.

Felt recoil is lessened, two hands contact is more secure, longer sight radius or bigger optics, improved muzzle energy and so on. Handguns are hard especially for someone not putting in a lot of practice. Whereas you can teach someone to hit their target with a rifle in a much shorter time frame.
 
It sounds like you want a lightweight, delayed blowback, 9mm PCC with easy to use controls and not too short of a barrel that she could accidentally put her hand near the muzzle.

Honestly, idk what that would be but you could have her try something like an MP5 clone.
 
A Ruger PCC is what sits in my bedroom and serves as our "farm gun". It's highly capable in the role. I like it for a couple of reasons, the manual of arms is pretty simple and comparable to a 10/22 for training purposes.
I keep it in a "cruiser ready" condition with the chamber empty and safety off, just pull the charging handle and you are in business. 33rds of 124gr 9mm +P should suffice for anything I should encounter around the house without needing to get to the safe for something else.

That being said, the downside of it is it's heavy, with a 33rd magazine, a RMR, WML, and sling, it's creeping on 9lbs. That's a lot of weight for someone with decreased upper body strength.

You could go with something like a CZ Scorpion or a Ruger PC charger with a brace.

Don't overlook the benefits of a lightweight 10/22 with a 25rd magazine.
 
Thanks gents!

Coincidentally, just this morning, an article came out from Ammoland reviewing the Tippmann Arms M4-22.

Although it is a .22LR and has all the associated drawbacks of that round, it also has a 25-round capacity. And as a home defense weapon for an elderly lady, I could see it working quite well.

Maybe I need to find or borrow a PCC in 9mm to see how she feels with that. And maybe see if I can allow her to compare that to something like this.
 
My vote would be the Ruger 10/22 with a lightweight AR type stock equipped with a red dot and weapon mounted light.

Other options you might consider are the personal defensive weapon (PDW) pistol conversions. Just google "Glock 17 PDW" or "P320 PDW".
 
Thanks gents!

Coincidentally, just this morning, an article came out from Ammoland reviewing the Tippmann Arms M4-22.

Although it is a .22LR and has all the associated drawbacks of that round, it also has a 25-round capacity. And as a home defense weapon for an elderly lady, I could see it working quite well.

Maybe I need to find or borrow a PCC in 9mm to see how she feels with that. And maybe see if I can allow her to compare that to something like this.
If you’re goin .22, get the M&P 15-22. It’s already a proven platform, mags are very easy to load too!
 
Having competed in Rimfire Challenge:

I found the biggest part of the "challenge" is to own a .22 that will get through 200 rounds without failures. So I'd have a hard time trusting .22lr semi-auto for self defense. It's an inherently untrustworthy round. Maybe a 10 shot revolver because you could just pull again if you get a dud round. But a semi-auto is going to require some faith, and a quick hand on the charging handle.
 
Just recently picked up a Banshee in 45 ACP. It's really light as these things go.
Prolly more so with a 5" version (mine's 10). But more blast.. It gains weight with the 26 stick but remains handy with a 10.
Still checkin into a Scorpion as well. The ones I have handled were very lightweight.
Prolly make a great house gun with sub 148's.
The controls seem a lil wonky to me, tho'. Somethin else ta get used to.. :cool:
And on the "budget friendly" side of things, that lil MCK actually works just fine.
Ya get a bit of up-n-down stringing from the disconnect between the gun and "the apparatus" (fixed on Gen 3 IIRC but still vaporware)..
But def "minute of azzole" at around-the-house distances.
Can't say about it's longevity, tho'.
 
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Hey Dan, sorry that I missed you on Friday and Sunday.

Three ideas come to mind. First would be a pump action .410 with a pistol grip. Laureen has one that she is welcome to try. The recoil is not bad at all and there are some great .410 defensive rounds available. As I recall Laureen's gun is a Mossberg HS 410.

Second would be a PCC in 9mm, preferably something with a soft charging spring. An AR based platform may be a little bit too complicated for her in terms of slide release, etc. A Beretta CX Storm may be a good option.

Third option would be some type of lever action in .38.

Scott
 
I am not a fan of rimfire for HD but a “.22 zipper” (10 rounds running from the groin up the torso) from a braced Ruger Challenger ain‘t a bad thing to go with either. A standard 10 round mag will put a hurtin’ on someone especially if run right up the torso plus the BX25 mags add extra rounds if needed. The .22 is very easy to charge a round and controlled if more volume is needed. Sure I’d rather her have a larger centerfire cartridge but a .22 that she can handle and run like a champ is better than something that may get away from her.

1FF29589-AF3D-4F46-81A7-5A2594565139.jpeg
 
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Perhaps a Glock in 9mm with the Roni brace or the PMR-30 .22WMR.
Or the CP33, it's low effort to charge and aftermarket larger handles are available, has a 33rd magazine (50 with the extension) and has a ton of picatinny up top for a flashlight, laser etc.

I love mine and have had almost zero jams with it after I learned to use the loading tool. 33rds of 22lr coming at you is no joke.

I had a 3d printed brace on mine (took it off to try the cheek pistol thing) and it was handy and accurate.

My P80 in a Recover Tactical chassis is also comfy and accurate and with an extended charging handle backplate would be easy to charge.
 
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I think charging spring on the Scorpion may be a bit stout for her. I may be headed up the road to @Scsmith42 this weekend, weather and schedules permitting.
If not I’m 10 min S of him.
I'm committed to running a crane for the RR museum on Saturday, but Sunday is wide open.
 
Keep at it. They were for sale this past weekend.
Got all the bits to build an Fm9 either in hand or otw lol

And side note, Foxtrot Mike customer service is amazingly good. I emailed a question about swapping the forward charging side at 7pm, had a reply at 830pm. Asked about buying a spare charging handle because it's plastic and I know me and he just shipped me a couple for free. You just don't get service like that very often anymore.
 
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PCC's are heaver in magazine compacity and in firearm bolt weight. pound for pound I would look at other options. All the enhancements to make the PCC a great self defense weapon, ads weight.

I think a few things.

1. More then one firearm.
Firearm A: I would go with a standard 10/22 in 22lr. The firepower is in the ability to shoot, Period. Anyone disagrees, they can volunteer for me or someone else to shoot them to prove the point. This is the day gun. I would teach her to fire from the hip old Vietnam style.
Firearm B: 410 semi-auto. This is the bedside barricade gun. Bump in the night? no issue go close your bedroom door, get the .410 and aim it at the closed door. Call the cops, if the door knob jiggles, and she does not know who it is, FIRE. This firearm does not need to be carried, just swung on the bed and pointed center of the door.

Tactics,
Situational awareness
Clear out dark locations near her door ways
Motion lights around the home
A dog, any size works, small ankle bitters still bark at stuff.
A good phone, police on speed dial
If the neighbors near her are worth a crap, visits are worth alot.
 
I am not a fan of rimfire for HD but a “.22 zipper” (10 rounds running from the groin up the torso) from a braced Ruger Challenger ain‘t a bad thing to go with either. A standard 10 round mag will put a hurtin’ on someone especially if run right up the torso plus the BX25 mags add extra rounds if needed. The .22 is very easy to charge a round and controlled if more volume is needed. Sure I’d rather her have a larger centerfire cartridge but a .22 that she can handle and run like a champ is better than something that may get away from her.

View attachment 454249
YES, hip fire, take off the RDS.
 
Tactics,
Situational awareness
Clear out dark locations near her door ways
Motion lights around the home
A dog, any size works, small ankle bitters still bark at stuff.
A good phone, police on speed dial
If the neighbors near her are worth a crap, visits are worth alot.
Even better … have a overall plan and deterrence setup. Unless she had to go active it might be best to hunker
Firearm B: 410 semi-auto. This is the bedside barricade gun. Bump in the night? no issue go close your bedroom door, get the .410 and aim it at the closed door. Call the cops, if the door knob jiggles, and she does not know who it is, FIRE. This firearm does not need to be carried, just swung on the bed and pointed center of the door.
That hunker down is smart … I believe that unless you have a damn good reason to go looking for the fight letting it come to you gives you big advantage. In fact a night light in hallway that silhouettes the intruder along with even partially taking away their night eyes is part of my tactics.
 
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I also like that he idea of a .410. If she has trouble with a pump action, or charging a semi-auto, I would still go with a sXs as better than nothing. If she can work the pump action, there is a .410 version of the Shockwave.
 
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Some common PCC weights, before adding a brace (extra lb probably):

NameBBL Length (in)Weight no brace (lb)Weight w/ brace (lb) if includedNotes
Extar EP96.54.064.22direct blowback
B&T GHM9 compact4.34.2direct blowback w/ hydraulic buffer
B&T GHM96.94.4direct blowback w/ hydraulic buffer
Stribog SP9A384.54roller delay variation, didn't see a k yet
Sig MPXk4.54.65piston delay
Scorpion Evo Micro44.67direct blowback
MP5k clone4.55.7roller delay
Ruger PC9166.8ditect blowback, didn't see a pistol variant

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Glock conversions to consider that have a grippable charging handle and brace option:

Roni (2.93 lb)
Fab Defense Scout (2.93 lb)

The mags will be single feed which are hard for weak hands to load
 
Some common PCC weights, before adding a brace (extra lb probably):

NameBBL Length (in)Weight no brace (lb)Weight w/ brace (lb) if includedNotes
Extar EP96.54.064.22direct blowback
B&T GHM9 compact4.34.2direct blowback w/ hydraulic buffer
B&T GHM96.94.4direct blowback w/ hydraulic buffer
Stribog SP9A384.54roller delay variation, didn't see a k yet
Sig MPXk4.54.65piston delay
Scorpion Evo Micro44.67direct blowback
MP5k clone4.55.7roller delay
Ruger PC9166.8ditect blowback, didn't see a pistol variant

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Glock conversions to consider that have a grippable charging handle and brace option:

Roni (2.93 lb)
Fab Defense Scout (2.93 lb)

The mags will be single feed which are hard for weak hands to load

Keep in mind these are small and central weight
 
Those above are excellent and high quality. Another very simple, 7 lb, 29” overall weapon is the Beretta CX4 Storm 9mm. Limited controls, ease of use so no real learning curve. The 7 lbs is a bit heavy for a older woman.
 
I forgot my Aunt’s old kinda left field favorite … a little M1 Carbine. It’s a kinda off beat choice but my Aunt lived in a rural enough area she kept my Uncle’s old M1 Carbine for her home and garden defense choice. Some say .30carbine is an anemic cartridge but for HD a soft point version at what HD distances are will do the job pretty nicely. It also comes in a nice small package which weighs just a little over 5 lbs. The big problem now is availability and price … but I seriously believe down the road it will be worth more than you’d pay now.
 
An armed response of any caliber is enough to turn or thwart 99% of all attacks. The simple act of having and firing a weapon in the direction of the attacker is enough unless it is personal.

With that in mind I would suggest a light weight 22 or 25.

My mother is 80 and she carries a baby browning 25 in her purse and keeps it on her night stand. She can handle that gun just fine. Well enough to hit a man sized target from across the room.
 
An armed response of any caliber is enough to turn or thwart 99% of all attacks. The simple act of having and firing a weapon in the direction of the attacker is enough unless it is personal.

Is this like firing two blasts from a double-barrel shotgun outside the house? Asking for an older friend of dubious mental capacity in the White House.
 
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Is this like firing two blasts from a double-barrel shotgun outside the house? Asking for a friend in the White House.
No. There was a 10
Year study by the fbi that compiled info from every reported self defense shooting.
 
Any basic blowback 9mm would do nicely, I like something with about a 10” barrel “pistol” with a brace ( stock )
10” allows you to get just about all the performance possible from 9mm. With a simple dot or irons they are very accurate
 
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