Seeking advice... PCC as a potential armed self-defense solution for elderly home defenders

I know the conversation has kinda diverted from PCC’s due to weight, but I still am on the AKV bandwagon. I love mine and my older parents can run it. A larger rounded charging handle and big safety lever are bonus points, it can also be hip fired and a 33rd magazine with a large release paddle seem to help out. If I can get mine up there she is welcome to try it out.
 
An armed response of any caliber is enough to turn or thwart 99% of all attacks. The simple act of having and firing a weapon in the direction of the attacker is enough unless it is personal.
This is pretty much right … 95% or more of criminals when turn and run at the sight of a firearm on a “victim” they thought was unarmed. Of that 5% or less who do not turn and run at the sight 95% or more of those will turn and run at the simple discharge of a round from said firearm. Its that 5% or less of that 5% or less that we have to worry about. That 1 or 2 rare one’s “desire” to keep coming is why we prepare … and why that means more than just having a firearm! It means preparation thru training … planning and practice. Col Jeff Cooper summed it up when he said “Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician” … or you are going to be SOL.
 
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Any basic blowback 9mm would do nicely, I like something with about a 10” barrel “pistol” with a brace ( stock )
10” allows you to get just about all the performance possible from 9mm. With a simple dot or irons they are very accurate
Fully agree 100%

One issue, a lady might not have the ability to deploy the firearm. To cock a hammer is equal to its trigger weight + 60% in a rapid stroke

We need to think of who is the benefactor first.

I have a lady I work with, 30 years in the office environment had destroyed her ability to cock most semi-auto pistols until I thought her this technique.

@Bladesmith

Strong hand = Pistol Grip
Support hand = Slide

On the Rack - both hands same time:
Strong hand: Push the pistol forward
Support hand: pull the slide back

Most people can achieve a chambered round

If not, SW EZ rack MP or a Ruger 22pistol is key
 
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Those above are excellent and high quality. Another very simple, 7 lb, 29” overall weapon is the Beretta CX4 Storm 9mm. Limited controls, ease of use so no real learning curve. The 7 lbs is a bit heavy for a older woman.
She may have trouble working the bolt.
 
The Ep9 recoils softer than the two AR9's and the PSA AKV that I had.
The EP9 recoil is also softer than the PC Carbine. My main reservation about the EP9 in this application is the stiff pull of the charging handle. I doubt that my wife can manipulate it.

The bolt on the PC carbine is pretty easy to manipulate. Maybe the PC Charger hits the sweet spot for weight/length/ease of manipulation.
 
I'll answer this from the perspective of a guy who has significantly more training than the average person before I developed an autoimmune condition that made run and gun type fun a thing of the past. The condition has left me with unreliable hand strength and weakened arms and legs. I've also lost finger dexterity so pushing small buttons kind of sucks. I'd bet that old lady could kick my ass most days. This made me re-work my available options for HD.
My solutions to home defense weapons also take into account my wife, who doesn't train on these things and is recoil averse. I've found that the lightweight ammo in 65 or 90 grain copper solids from Underwood/Lehigh saves both weight and recoil. That gets loaded in the following guns.
I'm also half deaf already. That's a disadvantage when something goes bump in the dark. I keep a pair of electronic earpro right next to the guns that are spread through the home (some in quick/silent open safes so they don't get used against me). This is more about bringing my hearing up to par quickly than it is protection. With the earpro on I can hear the carpet crunch underfoot.

Beretta CX4 in 9mm. It's got an always on red dot, an Inforce light and takes 15,17,18, 20 or 30 round B92 magazines that also fit the next option. A pair (his and hers) of side charging Foxtrot Mike FM9 PCC with a standard AR lower and a Stern Defense 9mm adaptor so it accepts B92 magazines. The FM9s wear an Aimpoint H1 and a Holosun 503 and both are left on. They also have BAD levers, a device I used to scoff at before my fingers stopped working on things like AR bolt releases. A nightstand Beretta 92 with a WML. The 92 has the deluxe treatment at Wilson (G type decock only, lighter springs and action tune). This system was set up specifically to address both my weakness and my wife's neglectful attitude toward familiarization and training.)

In addition to the above I also have an M1 Carbine replica from Kahr/AO that actually runs. It's got a red dot and a WML and is loaded with soft point.

I like to put slings on my rifles for retention. The CX4 normally wears one, but I just took it off yesterday to put on a new rifle that was headed to the range with me and didn't get put back yet.

I've found these to be light weight. Intuitive to operate. Forward charging handles that all operate similarly. Higher capacity magazines mean it's unlikely you'll need a re-load, and lightweight ammo removes the weight penalty from the higher capacity vs lead. Red dot sights that are always on make for simple accurate aimed fire at any distance on my suburban property.

It's probably a little far away, but if by chance the OP's customer is in the Charlotte area and you want to make the trip you're welcome to sample any of these at a range with me.
 

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A Ruger PCC is what sits in my bedroom and serves as our "farm gun". It's highly capable in the role. I like it for a couple of reasons, the manual of arms is pretty simple and comparable to a 10/22 for training purposes.
I keep it in a "cruiser ready" condition with the chamber empty and safety off, just pull the charging handle and you are in business. 33rds of 124gr 9mm +P should suffice for anything I should encounter around the house without needing to get to the safe for something else.

That being said, the downside of it is it's heavy, with a 33rd magazine, a RMR, WML, and sling, it's creeping on 9lbs. That's a lot of weight for someone with decreased upper body strength.

You could go with something like a CZ Scorpion or a Ruger PC charger with a brace.

Don't overlook the benefits of a lightweight 10/22 with a 25rd magazine.
I had the CZ scorpion when it first jumped on the scene, thought it was an awesome looking gun and loved the concept of basically a subgun, however the original ergonomics and the grip to trigger space was horribly uncomfortable, not to mention trying to shoot it without a brace. (at the time there were no optional only the stock adaptor from CZ but that would creep into SBR territory.) However, what I would suggest is any AR platform pistol with an arm brace as this individual is exactly the intended end user they were invented to help in the first place. The AR pistols have less felt recoil, are more accurate then pistol and much easier to manipulate.

Just my 2 cents!
 
What about a M1 Carbine, light, good cartridge for inside the home.
Only issue is price of the gun.
And the 30cal muzzle blast blowing out your eardrums indoors. It was loud enough outside I had to add plugs to my over the ears lol
 
And the 30cal muzzle blast blowing out your eardrums indoors. It was loud enough outside I had to add plugs to my over the ears lol
Had a fellow shoot his Mosin right next to me at a meet and greet, boy that was loud, I wear foam and electronics. Made me think about the Russian soldiers fighting the Germans without any ear protection.
 
Had a fellow shoot his Mosin right next to me at a meet and greet, boy that was loud, I wear foam and electronics. Made me think about the Russian soldiers fighting the Germans without any ear protection.
My military rifle match really gets you thinking about stuff like that. Then you see the clunky old bolt guns being fought under the pressure of just a timer, or the Garand getting a 20 second reload vs a modern AR in a few seconds.
 
Is this like firing two blasts from a double-barrel shotgun outside the house? Asking for an older friend of dubious mental capacity in the White House.
She would need to have a balcony installed. ;)
 
I agree entirely with John; but amplifying some points. Motion lights and dog (s).
Motion lights around the outside especially doors will solve a lot of issues before they happen. Then, being met by a yapper at the door or hearing it will make additional issues go away in search of softer targets.
Both of these are working on the main underlying factor here: her perception of her personal security. These two items will make her feel more secure and each have value added in reality.
Security in depth is what you improve, think “layers” or rings of defense, LTC.
Guns are the last level. A 10/22 or a Marlin tube-fed (ultra reliable) punch well above their weight factor. John pointed out the “barricade” tactic and is exactly correct. It’s a Position of Dominance (POD) where you have to advance through a chokepoint and I have tactical advantage over you. If you want to wade through my “fatal funnel” while absorbing 22LR/9mm, come on. I would say the bedroom is a great choice with the shower as a final stand with handgun. Most bathroom are even smaller with tile surfaces.
Again, John is spot on with the “prop the gun on the mattress” answer. If she’s shooting holes through the door into their hips and belly, they’ll go away. This applies for pistol, rifle, PCC...
Additionally, tell her to dial 911 and lay the phone down. Don’t hang up, just lay it down. Dispatchers will want to talk to you, but thats too much distraction; help will be coming loudly once they hear her call and situation.
And, finally, someone mentioned my “farm gun” choice, the M1 carbine. It might be a little much for her, but consider it if she wants an upgrade.
 
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I agree entirely with John; but amplifying some points. Motion lights and dog (s).
Motion lights around the outside especially doors will solve a lot of issues before they happen. Then, being met by a yapper at the door or hearing it will make additional issues go away in search of softer targets.
Both of these are working on the main underlying factor here: her perception of her personal security. These two items will make her feel more secure and each have value added in reality.
Security in depth is what you improve, think “layers” or rings of defense, LTC.
Guns are the last level. A 10/22 or a Marlin tube-fed (ultra reliable) punch well above their weight factor. John pointed out the “barricade” tactic and is exactly correct. It’s a Position of Dominance (POD) where you have to advance through a chokepoint and I have tactical advantage over you. If you want to wade through my “fatal funnel” while absorbing 22LR, come on. I would say the bedroom is a great choice with the shower as a final stand with handgun. Most bathroom are even smaller with tile surfaces.
Again, John is spot on with the “prop the gun on the mattress” answer. If she’s shooting holes through the door into their hips and belly, they’ll go away.
Additionally, tell her to dial 911 and lay the phone down. Don’t hang up, just lay it down. Dispatchers will want to talk to you, but thats too much distraction; help will be coming loudly once they hear her call and situation.
And, finally, someone mentioned my “farm gun” choice, the M1 carbine. It might be a little much for her, but consider it if she wants an upgrade.
I actually arranged a little nest for my ex between the bed and the exterior wall with a flashlight and corded phone. Plan was she goes in there and calls 911 and I wait in the hall corner to shoot the intruder.
 
Had a fellow shoot his Mosin right next to me at a meet and greet, boy that was loud, I wear foam and electronics. Made me think about the Russian soldiers fighting the Germans without any ear protection.
You know what they have to say about that?

"что, простите?"
 
My vote would be the Ruger 10/22 with a lightweight AR type stock equipped with a red dot and weapon mounted light.

Other options you might consider are the personal defensive weapon (PDW) pistol conversions. Just google "Glock 17 PDW" or "P320 PDW".
This, (1022) except no tech or batteries for elderly....controls too small and confusing, batteries be dead when needed. Nice big tritium front bead if you must force youth tech on them otherwise the biggest fiberoptic bead and focus on training to point shoot the front sight as they just can't focus front and rear.
 
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1. More then one firearm.
Firearm A: I would go with a standard 10/22 in 22lr. The firepower is in the ability to shoot, Period. Anyone disagrees, they can volunteer for me or someone else to shoot them to prove the point. This is the day gun. I would teach her to fire from the hip old Vietnam style.
I couldn’t disagree more. A .22 is the last thing on earth I would recommend to a new shooter for SD purposes. Of all the firearms out there, rimfire is the most likely to malfunction. If you’re shooting Something like, say, 10/22, it’s not a matter of “if” it’s “when” it will malfunction on you. Now, I can (and presumably you as well….) clear a malfunction real quick, and if not fast enough then I’d just butt stroke them in the face, and go hands on………..but I’m not a elderly woman.

Also, the whole “volunteer to shoot you to prove a point” is absolutely beyond ridiculous….. I’m not “volunteering” to let someone shoot me with a BB gun, or poke me with a sharp stick…….that doesn’t mean they are viable self defense weapons……..were you serious with that whole post or was it in jest?? Hopefully the latter………
 
How about a Rossi Rio Bravo .22lr it has fiber optic sights, lever action, load it with match ammo and good to go.
 
So. The volunteer to shoot someone is, I agree, a super stupid comment..... especially for someone in the business to say it.

.......as for 22 lr for self defense? Itll do fine/does fine. I trust it. A colt loaded with 16 HV solids is an edc fierceness at your side.


The caliber is moot, the customer is aged and compromises Must be evaluated/implemented. You can not force your youth tech, youth vision, youth reflex, Youth strength, youth dexterity, youth mental acuity into this type of scenario. When IT happens, She'll be alone, without you there, and the defensive tool must be hers and hers alone.
 
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Against my better instincts I'm going to wade back in here and argue for "tech" as it relates to sights on a carbine. An Aimpoint has a five year battery life. Just leave it on. The Chinese optics are all starting to build optics that will "shake awake" from a 5 year standby. A prism still works without batteries. Plenty of older folks using smartphones these days so putting a reminder on her calendar to change the battery every few years isn't asking a lot.
As I stated up thread I'm dealing with diminished reflexes, diminished strength, bad hearing (when unassisted), and diminished finger dexterity. My wife isn't real big on training. Put these concepts together and you'll find, as I did, the need for a lightweight rifle with a simple sighting system that has intuitive controls that can be manipulated with gross motor movements. There have been several of us who posted the same things as viable options that are centerfire cartridges. The first problem with rimfire is reliability in ignition. Nobody doubts a bullet hose full of .22 could eventually do the job, they doubt if it will run.
 
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So. The volunteer to shoot someone is, I agree, a super stupid comment..... especially for someone in the business to say it.
And @Derek8404 the 22lr shoot statement is a joke, to a point. People say "no 22lr is a bad choice" ok then are you willing to get shot by one? Well no I am not, then how bad of a choice is it?

I agree on reliability of rim-fire ammunition. I will say the reliability of hire quality ammo like Eley I have not had a malfunction with.
 
In order,
1: alarm system with 2 way voice and the correct sensors.
2: exterior lighting that covers things well, and ideally overt cameras (even if a few or all are fake).
3: A garage door opener with battery backup, a secondary lock, and integrated into the alarm system. She should park in the garage at all times when home and keep the door closed so no one knows if she's home or not.
4. Interior networked plugs on select lights. New versions are cheap and can be set to automatically come on at sunset every day, so they never need adjusting or get off time.
5. Keltec in 9MM. Or a Scorpion Micro with 20 round mag. I'd run 124gr ammo, ball. Whatever will most reliably feed and minimize a jam/failure that may require muscle to clear.
 
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