Self defense question

Millie

Millie

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If I'm in a dark parking lot or other place, alone, and I see someone coming at me pretty fast, am I obligated to tell them I'll shoot if they don't stop? It might be someone I know, but it's dark and I can't tell. It might be a rapist/robber, I have no way to tell. They haven't said anything, so I don't know what they want.
I can't just blast away, right?
 
Based on your scenario I would not want to shoot at an as yet unidentified target.
 
Certainly no blasting away.

If you want to reveal to them that you are carrying and will blast away that might be an option.

I usually get pretty verbally aggressive and start making demands if my spidey senses are going off. If someone is trying to strong arm you, taking control of the situation can be a good move. They usually don't expect that.
 
fieldgrade said:
Based on your scenario I would not want to shoot at an as yet unidentified target.
Click to expand...
So can I just say "I have a gun"?
Fire a shot in the air?
What?
I'm asking because I'm in a dark spot after rehearsals, and I'm usually the last to leave, because I'm slow.
 
chiefjason said:
Certainly no blasting away.

If you want to reveal to them that you are carrying and will blast away that might be an option.

I usually get pretty verbally aggressive and start making demands if my spidey senses are going off. If someone is trying to strong arm you, taking control of the situation can be a good move. They usually don't expect that.
Click to expand...
What do you say to them? Demands for what? And it's different for a guy to be verbally aggressive than for a woman. Remember, I'm an old-ish, out-of-shape woman, with no skills in self-defense. All I have is a gun. (Well, I have a stun gun, but usually it's in the car. I have a knife in the car too. But the gun is always on me.) If they're close enough to use strong arm tactics on me, literally, then it might be over for me anyway. How do I control the situation?
(Not trying to be difficult, just would like more specifics, please.)
 
Millie said:
So can I just say "I have a gun"?
Fire a shot in the air?
What?
I'm asking because I'm in a dark spot after rehearsals, and I'm usually the last to leave, because I'm slow.
Click to expand...


Big negative. Do not wave your gun around and definitely do not fire a shot in the air. You will likely be arrested and charged.

If you are typically in a dark location get one of those extremely bright flashlights. If you feel threatened by someone approaching you one hand one the light and the other on your gun. Point the light at them and shine it directly in their eyes. Don't turn it on till it it pointed at their eyes. This will have the effect of momentarily blinding them and let you identify them if you do know them. If you don't then announce to them that you have a weapon and to stay back. Try to keep as much distance as you can between you and the one approaching you. It is unreal how fast someone running at you can be on you.

Best thing is to always be aware of your surrounding and don't let someone get too close before you react. Ask someone you trust to wait for you and walk you to your car. There is safety in numbers.


One thing about the light. I was sitting here at the computer and looked at the one I keep near me and realized something. It has the button that turns it on at the end of the light. Get one that you can hold in your hand and turn on with your thumb. That way you can point the light and turn it on without having to readjust your grip on the light. The one I have here is not good for that.
 
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No warning shots. That's pretty much Hollywood BS. And legally, it can be a big no no. If they are not enough of a threat to shoot, they are not enough of a threat to kind of shoot at.

Usually a loud, sharp stop! Maybe don't come any closer. Probably some swearing mixed in. I've turned a couple guys completely back on their heels doing it. I used to work a block from Salvation Army and had some seedy folks milling about a couple times a month. I could probably still do it, but I'm not quite as loud as I used to be. It's called a command voice. Think cop voice. If I go all in, my throat is usually pretty sore from the yelling the next day.

Part of controlling the situation is acknowledging that it exists and something is happening. Criminals get close because people try to ignore what is going on until it's too late. If you can't get loud, turn and face them. Tell them to stop where they are and not come any closer. Just acknowledging that you know they are up to something can turn things around. They are looking for a victim, preferably helpless or clueless. The interaction of the criminal coming up to you asking for something is usually called an interview. Take a look here.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/interview.htm
 
@Millie thie book covers A LOT of different scenarios like you describe: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0936279001/ref=dbs_a_def_awm_bibl_vppi_i1

It’s a tough and dynamic situation and you need to evaluate it quickly and correctly. The post by chief Jason above is spot on and the site he linked to is really good.

Don’t let anyone get too close and creating a barrier or fence coupled with a loud stop is usually effective. Also watch for two or more individuals to try to split up in order to flank you, which is never a good sign.
 
I wouldn't fire in the air since now you have one less bullet. You might want to buy a small but powerful tactical flashlight to use in the parking lot. This will help you identify and blind someone coming towards you. If you do not know them you can demand for them to stop. If they do not respond and keep coming I would attempt to communicate my intentions to shoot them while I tried to put a little more distance between us. After that I would feel that I did what I could do and this person was clearly warned and has ignored all commands and I am in fear of my life and I would use my firearm to stop this threat.
 
Do the above and here’s a light to check out. It’s 1000 lumens and has the button on the tail cap.


Streamlight 88065 Pro Tac HL-X 1,000 Lumen Professional Tactical Flashlight with High/Low/Strobe"Dual Fuel" use 2x CR123A or 1 x 18650 Rechargeable Li-ion Batteries and Holster - 1000 Lumens https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06VTLLC13/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_zJWYBbM8KCDQC


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I have the protac hlx. It's an awesome light. Invest in the rechargeable 18650 batteries. The cr123s dont last too long.
 
My vote is nobody walks that parking lot alone. I also second the flashlight idea...carrying it with finger on the button. I recently bought this one promoted for less than $50 delivered. I'll bet they'll be on sale Black Friday if not before. This tiny gadget is a beast!

https://olightworld.com/olight-s1rii-baton
 
chiefjason said:
No warning shots. That's pretty much Hollywood BS. And legally, it can be a big no no. If they are not enough of a threat to shoot, they are not enough of a threat to kind of shoot at.

Usually a loud, sharp stop! Maybe don't come any closer. Probably some swearing mixed in. I've turned a couple guys completely back on their heels doing it. I used to work a block from Salvation Army and had some seedy folks milling about a couple times a month. I could probably still do it, but I'm not quite as loud as I used to be. It's called a command voice. Think cop voice. If I go all in, my throat is usually pretty sore from the yelling the next day.

Part of controlling the situation is acknowledging that it exists and something is happening. Criminals get close because people try to ignore what is going on until it's too late. If you can't get loud, turn and face them. Tell them to stop where they are and not come any closer. Just acknowledging that you know they are up to something can turn things around. They are looking for a victim, preferably helpless or clueless. The interaction of the criminal coming up to you asking for something is usually called an interview. Take a look here.

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/interview.htm
Click to expand...
Thanks for that link....though it led me into reading much more than the "interview" part. I wandered arount the site awhile!
 
Schattenreiter said:
Big negative. Do not wave your gun around and definitely do not fire a shot in the air. You will likely be arrested and charged.

If you are typically in a dark location get one of those extremely bright flashlights. If you feel threatened by someone approaching you one hand one the light and the other on your gun. Point the light at them and shine it directly in their eyes. Don't turn it on till it it pointed at their eyes. This will have the effect of momentarily blinding them and let you identify them if you do know them. If you don't then announce to them that you have a weapon and to stay back. Try to keep as much distance as you can between you and the one approaching you. It is unreal how fast someone running at you can be on you.

Best thing is to always be aware of your surrounding and don't let someone get too close before you react. Ask someone you trust to wait for you and walk you to your car. There is safety in numbers.


One thing about the light. I was sitting here at the computer and looked at the one I keep near me and realized something. It has the button that turns it on at the end of the light. Get one that you can hold in your hand and turn on with your thumb. That way you can point the light and turn it on without having to readjust your grip on the light. The one I have here is not good for that.
Click to expand...
I do have a bright light in my luggage...er, I mean my purse! Great idea, though mine has the button on the end like yours. I also have one with the button on the side, but that one has a knife concealed in the handle....probably a huge no-no, right?

I'll try to not be the last to leave, and I always park under a light so I can see the area before I get to the car.

(All this probably sounds like I'm a bit paranoid, I bet, but really I'm just trying to be aware of my surroundings and also thinking ahead as to what I might do in a situation. If I can think about what might happen and what my response(s) might be, maybe I won't freeze up if something actually does happen.)
 
Bailey Boat said:
If you already KNOW that you're putting yourself in a bad situation by leaving after the others, why not just speed up or start earlier so you CAN leave with the crowd and avoid all this?? Avoidance is the best "weapon".....
Click to expand...
Well, sometimes I'm slow, but sometimes I'm the locking-up person...
But you're completely right, I'll ask someone to keep me company on those nights.

And it might be a good idea to suggest that everyone leaves in company with another person. We tend to sort of trickle out by ourselves, a veritable potential victim parade!!!

Have I gotten overly paranoid? This whole idea of situational awareness is kind difficult for me. I mean, I'm aware there are bad people out there, but never really thought too much about anything happening to me until the last few years, with the house being broken into and various things happening on the property. Hence the gun purchases and CC class. And all the security all over the place.

My family thinks I'm nuts, which I may well be, but I don't want to be a victim of some a-hole....again. Lol.
 
Joe Biden told us it is OK to blast couple of rounds in teh air as a deterrent so it must be OK :oops::rolleyes:
 
noway2 said:
@Millie thie book covers A LOT of different scenarios like you describe: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0936279001/ref=dbs_a_def_awm_bibl_vppi_i1

It’s a tough and dynamic situation and you need to evaluate it quickly and correctly. The post by chief Jason above is spot on and the site he linked to is really good.

Don’t let anyone get too close and creating a barrier or fence coupled with a loud stop is usually effective. Also watch for two or more individuals to try to split up in order to flank you, which is never a good sign.
Click to expand...
I have the book! I just haven't read it yet....shame on me! I'm going to make it a priority over the next few days.
 
12151791 said:
Joe Biden told us it is OK to blast couple of rounds in teh air as a deterrent so it must be OK :oops::rolleyes:
Click to expand...

LOL. Nicely done.
(yeah, probably you don't want to fire a gun unless you have to....massive hearing loss potential, not to mention the other ramifications.)
 
Have a light on you are ready in those situations. Create space between you and the other person. Maybe use your vehicle to create that space. Don't shoot if you are not 100% sure and in danger.

Just so I don't speak from ignorance or give bad advice.

Go take a class somewhere. Lots of options, but you'll likely have to drive somewhere to do it.

@Miss Lily
 
Amps 13 said:
I wouldn't fire in the air since now you have one less bullet. You might want to buy a small but powerful tactical flashlight to use in the parking lot. This will help you identify and blind someone coming towards you. If you do not know them you can demand for them to stop. If they do not respond and keep coming I would attempt to communicate my intentions to shoot them while I tried to put a little more distance between us. After that I would feel that I did what I could do and this person was clearly warned and has ignored all commands and I am in fear of my life and I would use my firearm to stop this threat.
Click to expand...
One less bullet is right, and I didn't have that many to start with...lol...though I carry an extra magazine in the purse.
I do have a light in the purse, though. It's very bright!

Thanks for the responses from everyone. I've learned something, as always here!
 
Miss Lily said:
Take the "Personal Protection Outside the Home" course. Much good information in that class.

Also, go to https://guntalk.com/first-person-defender and check the videos. They discuss many scenarios and responses.
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Can you give me a link to the class, please? Sounds interesting. Will be checking out the videos you sent a link to, thanks very much.

Wow, watched the one where the girl is in the parking garage. The second time they had her do it, she should have and could have gotten the car between her and the guy and still have moved around the car if he followed her. I'd want to keep something, anything between me and a big, aggressive guy, for sure. And she let him get really close to her....that would freak me out!
 
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Amps 13 said:
I wouldn't fire in the air since now you have one less bullet. You might want to buy a small but powerful tactical flashlight to use in the parking lot. This will help you identify and blind someone coming towards you. If you do not know them you can demand for them to stop. If they do not respond and keep coming I would attempt to communicate my intentions to shoot them while I tried to put a little more distance between us. After that I would feel that I did what I could do and this person was clearly warned and has ignored all commands and I am in fear of my life and I would use my firearm to stop this threat.
Click to expand...

One less bullet is the wrong answer. The answer is, you are accountable for every single round. Safety rule number whatever: Know what's behind your target. You don't know where that round is coming back.

I like the flashlight idea: A gazillion-power 'tactical' light is awfully blinding, and in a dark space gets inside the (potential) booger eater's OODA loop, screws with their night vision, illuminates the area, and kind of serves as a beacon to those around that something might be happening.
 
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Millie said:
Can you give me a link to the class, please? Sounds interesting. Will be checking out the videos you sent a link to, thanks very much.
Click to expand...

This is a NRA course. Check with local ranges to find if they offer it.
 
325rto said:
Millie. Go to nratraining.com. you will be prompted to select the training you are seeking. You will be required to enter your zip code.
Click to expand...
I did go there... they apparently don't have the "protection outside the home" class within 100 miles of me, though. I can do the basic pistol class. It's held in many areas within the 100 miles.
 
Millie said:
I do have a bright light in my luggage...er, I mean my purse! Great idea, though mine has the button on the end like yours. I also have one with the button on the side, but that one has a knife concealed in the handle....probably a huge no-no, right?

I'll try to not be the last to leave, and I always park under a light so I can see the area before I get to the car.

(All this probably sounds like I'm a bit paranoid, I bet, but really I'm just trying to be aware of my surroundings and also thinking ahead as to what I might do in a situation. If I can think about what might happen and what my response(s) might be, maybe I won't freeze up if something actually does happen.)
Click to expand...


Sounds like a plan. Graveyard is full of people who didn't have one. Probably just as many who did but we do the best we can.
 
try blinding the perp with a crimson trace laser...they'll get the message, and you will know you are on target...lol
 
I took that class and the instructor class at Wake County Firearms Education & Training Center in Apex. Great class. I think everyone should take both Inside the Home and Outside the Home courses.
 
I have some definite opinions on this topic and some of them May or may not differ a bit from those already mentioned. I don't consider this a what if scenario, but an every day scenario.
Mas Ayoob's In the Gravest Extreme is a landmark work in gun ownership and useage. He was the first to address then legal implecations of using a gun. I made it required reading for people I knew that were thinking of buying a gun for defense. And that was back in the '80's. Read it!

Situational awareness will be an underlying foundation. No talking on the cell phone or texting. No fumbling for keys, which should already in hand or even too involved of a conversation if you're walking with someone Nothing to draw your attention away from your surroundings and who's in it.
Don't be afraid to verbally confront someone.
STOP! Hand(s) ✋ if necessary. This also creates a postive defensive posture, but that's another story. Their continued action may indicate their intent.
With a good light, you can obscure their vision and ask, "May I help you?" The light allows you to identify the subject and see what they may be carrying like a knife or gun of just books. If they continue forward into the light, that would be a big red flag for me.
On lights, contrary to the aforementioned suggestion, you do want a light that is operated by the tailcap and you will prefer it to have a momentary switch. A momentary switch is one that lights immediately when you press it. Not one that requires it to "click" on where you press and release for it to activate. This allows you to extinguish the light immediately and without noise going on or off. The end cap switch allows you to grip the light fully in the fist do it can be used as a striking weapon. Don't go for a light too large to grip this way. Also, avoid mega lumen super bright lights. They will screw up your night vision recovery. Optimally, it will be bright enough to overcome headlights that are pointed at you. Ever been in a dark parking lot when a car rolls up and you can't see who's in it?
There are now plenty of good powerful lights at decent prices. I would avoid the exotic battery types CR123, 18650, etc. if you are starting out. Too much upkeep. (I personally have them all, but I maintain a system to keep them running.) There are good AA lights out there and I prefer over AAA. My favorite EDC light uses a single AA. Standardize on AA's for as many things as you can and invest in Sanyo Eneloop AA NiMh rechargeables. These are by far the best rechargeable batteries out there for longevity. They keep working. (18650's in various brands are my other "standard".)
I can go on and on about lights. Have one. Have it in your hand. Learn to strike with one. Learn how to transition to a gun with one. (Gets back to the grip.) Learn when it needs to be off.

Back on situational awareness, if someone is getting your attention, be sure to "Check your 6" or look behind you. They often work in pairs. Assume he has a buddy and think of where he might be.

This isn't paranoia, it's just being prepared. It becomes second nature and done automatically. No fanfare or weird behavior.

Just my .02

I know I didn't cover everything.
 
georgel said:
I have some definite opinions on this topic and some of them May or may not differ a bit from those already mentioned. I don't consider this a what if scenario, but an every day scenario.
Mas Ayoob's In the Gravest Extreme is a landmark work in gun ownership and useage. He was the first to address then legal implecations of using a gun. I made it required reading for people I knew that were thinking of buying a gun for defense. And that was back in the '80's. Read it!

Situational awareness will be an underlying foundation. No talking on the cell phone or texting. No fumbling for keys, which should already in hand or even too involved of a conversation if you're walking with someone Nothing to draw your attention away from your surroundings and who's in it.
Don't be afraid to verbally confront someone.
STOP! Hand(s) ✋ if necessary. This also creates a postive defensive posture, but that's another story. Their continued action may indicate their intent.
With a good light, you can obscure their vision and ask, "May I help you?" The light allows you to identify the subject and see what they may be carrying like a knife or gun of just books. If they continue forward into the light, that would be a big red flag for me.
On lights, contrary to the aforementioned suggestion, you do want a light that is operated by the tailcap and you will prefer it to have a momentary switch. A momentary switch is one that lights immediately when you press it. Not one that requires it to "click" on where you press and release for it to activate. This allows you to extinguish the light immediately and without noise going on or off. The end cap switch allows you to grip the light fully in the fist do it can be used as a striking weapon. Don't go for a light too large to grip this way. Also, avoid mega lumen super bright lights. They will screw up your night vision recovery. Optimally, it will be bright enough to overcome headlights that are pointed at you. Ever been in a dark parking lot when a car rolls up and you can't see who's in it?
There are now plenty of good powerful lights at decent prices. I would avoid the exotic battery types CR123, 18650, etc. if you are starting out. Too much upkeep. (I personally have them all, but I maintain a system to keep them running.) There are good AA lights out there and I prefer over AAA. My favorite EDC light uses a single AA. Standardize on AA's for as many things as you can and invest in Sanyo Eneloop AA NiMh rechargeables. These are by far the best rechargeable batteries out there for longevity. They keep working. (18650's in various brands are my other "standard".)
I can go on and on about lights. Have one. Have it in your hand. Learn to strike with one. Learn how to transition to a gun with one. (Gets back to the grip.) Learn when it needs to be off.

Back on situational awareness, if someone is getting your attention, be sure to "Check your 6" or look behind you. They often work in pairs. Assume he has a buddy and think of where he might be.

This isn't paranoia, it's just being prepared. It becomes second nature and done automatically. No fanfare or weird behavior.

Just my .02

I know I didn't cover everything.
Click to expand...


OP... Listen to georgel. He knows what he's talking about. After you read his post watch this video (when you have time). Massad Ayoob is THE authority on this subject. I own several of his videos & they are excellent.

 
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A lot has been said. I have not been in that situation but I used to walk my beagle in all parts of downtown. There was 3 things that I always had on me, my cell phone (back pocket), gun in a holster (right side) and a tatical flashlight in my weak hand along with the dog leash. I would never be on the cell phone. When walking through the park and heard someone or thing I would scan/light up of the area. Other people appreciated knowing that I was there too.

What I am trying to say, BE WARE OF THE AREA AROUND YOU. IF YOU ARE NOT SURE, LIGHT THEM UP WHILE GUN IS STILL IN HOLSTER. Remember the dog and flashlight is in the left hand with the right is free to draw if needed.
 
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abraves said:
I took that class and the instructor class at Wake County Firearms Education & Training Center in Apex. Great class. I think everyone should take both Inside the Home and Outside the Home courses.
Click to expand...
I've got those on the list of things to do....
 
georgel said:
I have some definite opinions on this topic and some of them May or may not differ a bit from those already mentioned. I don't consider this a what if scenario, but an every day scenario.
Mas Ayoob's In the Gravest Extreme is a landmark work in gun ownership and useage. He was the first to address then legal implecations of using a gun. I made it required reading for people I knew that were thinking of buying a gun for defense. And that was back in the '80's. Read it!

Situational awareness will be an underlying foundation. No talking on the cell phone or texting. No fumbling for keys, which should already in hand or even too involved of a conversation if you're walking with someone Nothing to draw your attention away from your surroundings and who's in it.
Don't be afraid to verbally confront someone.
STOP! Hand(s) ✋ if necessary. This also creates a postive defensive posture, but that's another story. Their continued action may indicate their intent.
With a good light, you can obscure their vision and ask, "May I help you?" The light allows you to identify the subject and see what they may be carrying like a knife or gun of just books. If they continue forward into the light, that would be a big red flag for me.
On lights, contrary to the aforementioned suggestion, you do want a light that is operated by the tailcap and you will prefer it to have a momentary switch. A momentary switch is one that lights immediately when you press it. Not one that requires it to "click" on where you press and release for it to activate. This allows you to extinguish the light immediately and without noise going on or off. The end cap switch allows you to grip the light fully in the fist do it can be used as a striking weapon. Don't go for a light too large to grip this way. Also, avoid mega lumen super bright lights. They will screw up your night vision recovery. Optimally, it will be bright enough to overcome headlights that are pointed at you. Ever been in a dark parking lot when a car rolls up and you can't see who's in it?
There are now plenty of good powerful lights at decent prices. I would avoid the exotic battery types CR123, 18650, etc. if you are starting out. Too much upkeep. (I personally have them all, but I maintain a system to keep them running.) There are good AA lights out there and I prefer over AAA. My favorite EDC light uses a single AA. Standardize on AA's for as many things as you can and invest in Sanyo Eneloop AA NiMh rechargeables. These are by far the best rechargeable batteries out there for longevity. They keep working. (18650's in various brands are my other "standard".)
I can go on and on about lights. Have one. Have it in your hand. Learn to strike with one. Learn how to transition to a gun with one. (Gets back to the grip.) Learn when it needs to be off.

Back on situational awareness, if someone is getting your attention, be sure to "Check your 6" or look behind you. They often work in pairs. Assume he has a buddy and think of where he might be.

This isn't paranoia, it's just being prepared. It becomes second nature and done automatically. No fanfare or weird behavior.

Just my .02

I know I didn't cover everything.
Click to expand...
I do have the book. I do use eneloop rechargeables and I do have a small light with the switch in the end, but it has to click ...didn't know about the instant on ones.
My keys are in my hand before I go out the door, and I barely use my phone away from the house. I know many people are in love with their phones, but for me it's just something to text friends and get notices about my alarm system's status. I'm not in love with my phone!
I'm trying to be better about keeping my head moving to see all the area around me.
Now, if I have my light in one hand and my keys in the other, how do I deal with my gun if I think I need to let someone know I mean business? Is this addressed in the book? I plan to read it, but haven't gotten very far into it yet.
Thanks for taking the time to tell me all this. Anything else you can come up with will be appreciated, too.
 
You will have to adjust to your personal needs, whatever works best for you. Just keep focus on the task at hand. Keys points... The light can be used as a weapon. The keys can be used as a weapon. If the aggressor is within 20ft. you will likely not have time to access a holstered weapon. (More on that later.) You will need to engage with what you have until you can, if necessary. This is one reason a light is so beneficial. While the subject is lighted, they cannot see what you are doing. Maybe YOU have a weapon. The light switch isn't a deal breaker. Don't spend money on a new light unless you find something you really like or you find a deficiency in the one you have.
 
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