Site Growth and Ethics

Chdamn

Chdamn

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A note from the owners.


Ladies and gentlemen.


As our site grows rest assured that we will never change our core values. One of those, spelled out clearly in our rules, is what, to most, seems like a very simple thing.

Keep your word! That’s it. You can back out of any deal before you finalize a place and time to meet. But once you have taken that step you are bound by a code of ethics to keep your word.

It doesn’t matter if you want to change your mind. It doesn’t matter if you are offered more money. It doesn’t matter if the value of what you agree to sell sky rockets over night. (Ask me sometime how much money I gave up when I agreed to sell mags the day before sandyhook and the meet was set up for a week later).

You gave your word. That should be enough without us having to make it a rule.

We will not ever sacrifice our code of ethics for the sake of growth. If you are not the type of person who keeps their word there are other gun related sites out there who don’t seem to care.
 
If I may be so bold as to add a note here:

If "things" keep going the way it appears they're going to go, CFF is going to become a critical asset in terms of networking and coordinating all manner of mutual support efforts. We must stand together, ignoring petty differences, remaining ever vigilant against attacks against our CFF family, both external and internal.

I will provide my contact information to any member requesting it, and I will pledge to provide any assistance of which I am capable to any member requesting it. That is my pledge to you; it is all I have to give.

Thank you all!
 
JT said:
If I may be so bold as to add a note here:

If "things" keep going the way it appears they're going to go, CFF is going to become a critical asset in terms of networking and coordinating all manner of mutual support efforts. We must stand together, ignoring petty differences, remaining ever vigilant against attacks against our CFF family, both external and internal.

I will provide my contact information to any member requesting it, and I will pledge to provide any assistance of which I am capable to any member requesting it. That is my pledge to you; it is all I have to give.

Thank you all!
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D3C3181F-06E3-4CBC-B877-55915CE1A26B.jpeg
 
Should go without saying. Has that been an issue? People breaking their word?
 
Trevillian said:
The fact there is only a single page on the negative feedback thread. That was started at the very beginning, is a sure sign that this place is full of good people:cool:
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This
 
Trevillian said:
The fact there is only a single page on the negative feedback thread. That was started at the very beginning, is a sure sign that this place is full of good people:cool:
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To be clear...

The number is definitely small, but not as low as that the negative feedback would indicate. Sometimes they’re banned, without a negative thread started due to the process.
 
We have seen a definite increase in negative feedbacks lately. Before I only remember seeing a couple of threads. That has changed of late.
 
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Reactions: JT
It is apparent that some of the new members still don't understand how to honor a deal. If you make a deal, stick with the terms of the deal. Do not change any of the terms afterward. If you cannot live up to our standards here, we don't want you.
 
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I guess I have gotten spoiled dealing with our core group of established people over the years. I have had good interaction with quite a few "new" members over the years as well.
Some of this recent influx of armslist refugees are a bit rough around the edges. For the first time I wonder if we should have a minimum post count to participate in the classifieds?
 
confused said:
a minimum post count to participate in the classifieds?
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That requirement of have a minimum post count is common in a bunch of sites that I am a member on. For me, I would make anybody that wants to post anything for sale should have paid their dues to this forum.
 
KnotRight said:
That requirement of have a minimum post count is common in a bunch of sites that I am a member on. For me, I would make anybody that wants to post anything for sale should have paid their dues to this forum.
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This is brought up a lot and has been discussed by the owners many times. And, I am always reminded of a post that one of our longtime friends and an honorable member made. @fieldgrade says that the very first post he made was to list a gun for sale.
Not every new member will turn out to be a @fieldgrade but some of them might. The ones that are less than honorable will expose themselves and they will either be shown the door or members will ignore their B/S/T listings and they will go away on their own. It will cycle out on it's own.
 
Geezer said:
This is brought up a lot and has been discussed by the owners many times. And, I am always reminded of a post that one of our longtime friends and an honorable member made. @fieldgrade says that the very first post he made was to list a gun for sale.
Not every new member will turn out to be a @fieldgrade but some of them might. The ones that are less than honorable will expose themselves and they will either be shown the door or members will ignore their B/S/T listings and they will go away on their own. It will cycle out on it's own.
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Iirc, didnt @Jeppo start out as a bst gremlin at the other place too?
Some folks prolly shoulda stayed in the bst
;)
 
Coltdefender1911 said:
It saddens me we even have to start a thread and/or discussion about a man keepin his word. What happen to a verbal agreement and a handshake?
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Lots of things have suffered with the advent of internet anonymity :(
 
@Geezer Thank you for the kind words, Larry.

Just thinking out loud here. After that successful first post I joined that forum. I figured $20 was a small price to pay for the great value I received.

You know that most forums have a personality of their own and there doesn’t really seem to be a one size fits all approach to any particular forum “issue” that needs to be addressed.

My attitude in the past has been to not try to fix something that’s not really broken, but things change and you have to revisit how business is being done from time to time.

I don’t have an answer other than to say I sorta cheat. I rarely post in the BST’s because my items never seem to make it out of the appraisal thread anymore. And I think here’s why...

If people would post detailed ads (or appraisal requests), with all the information and pictures they themselves would want to see if they were the buyers I think we wouldn’t have as many of the complaints we have. And if they can’t seem to stick to the terms of the deals they make then drop the ban hammer on them, early and often. I think public executions are probably effective, (if not entertaining).😛
 
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Chdamn said:
A note from the owners.


Ladies and gentlemen.


As our site grows rest assured that we will never change our core values. One of those, spelled out clearly in our rules, is what, to most, seems like a very simple thing.

Keep your word! That’s it. You can back out of any deal before you finalize a place and time to meet. But once you have taken that step you are bound by a code of ethics to keep your word.

It doesn’t matter if you want to change your mind. It doesn’t matter if you are offered more money. It doesn’t matter if the value of what you agree to sell sky rockets over night. (Ask me sometime how much money I gave up when I agreed to sell mags the day before sandyhook and the meet was set up for a week later).

You gave your word. That should be enough without us having to make it a rule.

We will not ever sacrifice our code of ethics for the sake of growth. If you are not the type of person who keeps their word there are other gun related sites out there who don’t seem to care.
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"Ethics" huh? What is this newfangled idea you have come up with here? I hate it when people try to force unfamiliar stuff on me! :)
 
fieldgrade said:
@Geezer Thank you for the kind words, Larry.

Just thinking out loud here. After that successful first post I joined that forum. I figured $20 was a small price to pay for the great value I received.

You know that most forums have a personality of their own and there doesn’t really seem to be a one size fits all approach to any particular forum “issue” that needs to be addressed.

My attitude in the past has been to not try to fix something that’s not really broken, but things change and you have to revisit how business is being done from time to time.

I don’t have an answer other than to say I sorta cheat. I rarely post in the BST’s because my items never seem to make it out of the appraisal thread anymore. And I think here’s why...

If people would post detailed ads (or appraisal requests), with all the information and pictures they themselves would want to see if they were the buyers I think we wouldn’t have as many of the complaints we have. And if they can’t seem to stick to the terms of the deals they make then drop the ban hammer on them, early and often. I think public executions are probably effective, (if not entertaining).😛
Click to expand...

My first post in any forum ever was to sell a gun on the same forum back then. I had well over 100 positive feedback score on that one in just a couple short years. I may be a lot of things(good or bad) but I’ve always kept my word when I said I was going to do something
 
Coltdefender1911 said:
It saddens me we even have to start a thread and/or discussion about a man keepin his word. What happen to a verbal agreement and a handshake?
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Seems some of these new kids didn't grow up getting azz beating out by the wood pile.
 
ronn47 said:
Seems some of these new kids didn't grow up getting azz beating out by the wood pile.
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They never go down by the wood pile. The Wifi doesn’t reach there. ;)
 
Geezer said:
It is apparent that some of the new members still don't understand how to honor a deal. If you make a deal, stick with the terms of the deal. Do not change any of the terms afterward. If you cannot live up to our standards here, we don't want you.
Click to expand...

@Geezer spot on sir, spot on!

I'm a newb here, so please excuse the revitalization of an old thread. This thread caught my eye (as I'm looking through forum rules and best practices) mainly as I have personal experience with this issues from a "Previous Life". I posted a decent amount on another "Northern" gun site and sold / purchased many items from fellow members. Honoring a deal to me was like a handshake while making eye contact. That's the way my father taught me and the way I've taught my children and grandchildren.

I personally like the "minimum post" rule/best practice of CFF.

With that being said, there was a simple statement of "Goose Rules Apply" when conducting any transaction between members of this other site. Kinda like the "One Strike Rule" here. Goose was a no BS person. Great integrity and all around good person. He would fit in perfectly here at CFF

If I may ramble a bit, here is the long version of "Goose Rules".

The Goose's Disclaimer:
First and foremost if you want something I am selling then say “I will take it”. I do not consider questions or inquiries as a commitment of any sort. Terms like “I am interested” mean nothing. The fact that we may be having a dialogue does not mean that I am waiting for you to make a decision. The person who steps up and says “I will take it, when do we meet” closes the deal.

• I expect you to read the ad. Every single time I sell anything I get at least one and usually multiple questions about something that is already stated in the ad. Yes it has a 5” barrel AS STATED IN THE FREAKIN” AD!

• I expect YOU to know that you want the item. I am not a store. Do your own research and visit a gun shop if you just want to handle a particular gun. And no I will not meet you at your club so you can try it out to see if you like it. Of course you get to inspect the gun before you buy it, but barring a mechanical or condition issue I expect you to buy it. If you are not sure then do not waste my time. I once met a prospective buyer at the range so that he could try out a revolver I was selling. After trying it out and BSing for more then an hour he simply said that it just did not fit his hand right. WTF!

• If you want to negotiate that is fine, but do not start out by telling me that my price is too high. This is not a good way to make friends and influence people. I have never made a dime on any private sale ever. In fact I routinely lose money and have often cut deals for a friend. I may be asking more then you want to pay, but the price is never too high. Also as stated in the first item above I do not consider negotiating a form of commitment. If you are in the process of offering less then I am asking and someone else says “I will take it” then you lose. Don’t bitch at me.

• I reserve the right to sell to whoever the hell I want. Having said that I scrupulously sell to the first person who makes a firm commitment. Provided that person does not piss me off. Such as demanding that the transaction take place that day, when it does not work for me. Also do not assume that just because you are the first person to post a reply on the forum that you are also the first person to contact me directly. Not everyone posts a reply, some folks just PM an “I will take it”. I am not obligated to justify anything to some guy I have never met who demands to know why he did not get the deal when he believes he was the first in line. You may also rest assured that if you take that tack that you will also not be first in line if the initial deal falls through.

• Do not ask me if it is MA compliant. Actually, feel free to ask me, but if you are depending upon my answer without doing your own research then you should not even be participating in a private transaction. Do your own damn research.

• Do not agree to a deal on line and then offer me less when we meet. If that happens the deal is over, no matter what. A deal is a deal. The time to negotiate is during the initial transaction, once the deal is made that’s it.


Jay

Shameless plug: Yes, I do ramble and yes, I'm working on getting my post count up. :cool:
 
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Trevillian said:
The fact there is only a single page on the negative feedback thread. That was started at the very beginning, is a sure sign that this place is full of good people:cool:
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And the ones that's aren't don't get to bite twice.
 
a73elkyss said:
Shameless plug: Yes, I do ramble and yes, I'm working on getting my post count up. :cool:
Click to expand...
You could have split that into a couple of posts and been in double-digits by now. 😁

A little bit late, but welcome to CFF!
 
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a73elkyss said:
@Geezer spot on sir, spot on!

I'm a newb here, so please excuse the revitalization of an old thread. This thread caught my eye (as I'm looking through forum rules and best practices) mainly as I have personal experience with this issues from a "Previous Life". I posted a decent amount on another "Northern" gun site and sold / purchased many items from fellow members. Honoring a deal to me was like a handshake while making eye contact. That's the way my father taught me and the way I've taught my children and grandchildren.

I personally like the "minimum post" rule/best practice of CFF.

With that being said, there was a simple statement of "Goose Rules Apply" when conducting any transaction between members of this other site. Kinda like the "One Strike Rule" here. Goose was a no BS person. Great integrity and all around good person. He would fit in perfectly here at CFF

If I may ramble a bit, here is the long version of "Goose Rules".

The Goose's Disclaimer:
First and foremost if you want something I am selling then say “I will take it”. I do not consider questions or inquiries as a commitment of any sort. Terms like “I am interested” mean nothing. The fact that we may be having a dialogue does not mean that I am waiting for you to make a decision. The person who steps up and says “I will take it, when do we meet” closes the deal.

• I expect you to read the ad. Every single time I sell anything I get at least one and usually multiple questions about something that is already stated in the ad. Yes it has a 5” barrel AS STATED IN THE FREAKIN” AD!

• I expect YOU to know that you want the item. I am not a store. Do your own research and visit a gun shop if you just want to handle a particular gun. And no I will not meet you at your club so you can try it out to see if you like it. Of course you get to inspect the gun before you buy it, but barring a mechanical or condition issue I expect you to buy it. If you are not sure then do not waste my time. I once met a prospective buyer at the range so that he could try out a revolver I was selling. After trying it out and BSing for more then an hour he simply said that it just did not fit his hand right. WTF!

• If you want to negotiate that is fine, but do not start out by telling me that my price is too high. This is not a good way to make friends and influence people. I have never made a dime on any private sale ever. In fact I routinely lose money and have often cut deals for a friend. I may be asking more then you want to pay, but the price is never too high. Also as stated in the first item above I do not consider negotiating a form of commitment. If you are in the process of offering less then I am asking and someone else says “I will take it” then you lose. Don’t bitch at me.

• I reserve the right to sell to whoever the hell I want. Having said that I scrupulously sell to the first person who makes a firm commitment. Provided that person does not piss me off. Such as demanding that the transaction take place that day, when it does not work for me. Also do not assume that just because you are the first person to post a reply on the forum that you are also the first person to contact me directly. Not everyone posts a reply, some folks just PM an “I will take it”. I am not obligated to justify anything to some guy I have never met who demands to know why he did not get the deal when he believes he was the first in line. You may also rest assured that if you take that tack that you will also not be first in line if the initial deal falls through.

• Do not ask me if it is MA compliant. Actually, feel free to ask me, but if you are depending upon my answer without doing your own research then you should not even be participating in a private transaction. Do your own damn research.

• Do not agree to a deal on line and then offer me less when we meet. If that happens the deal is over, no matter what. A deal is a deal. The time to negotiate is during the initial transaction, once the deal is made that’s it.


Jay

Shameless plug: Yes, I do ramble and yes, I'm working on getting my post count up. :cool:
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Welcome to our community Jay! Also don’t worry about the rambling. You are not the only lol.
 
a73elkyss said:
If you want to negotiate that is fine, but do not start out by telling me that my price is too high. This is not a good way to make friends and influence people.
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Oh man, you must not have tried to advertise ammo without checking the going market price via ammoseek or other site as some have done. :p

Welcome to the forum
 
a73elkyss said:
• Do not agree to a deal on line and then offer me less when we meet. If that happens the deal is over, no matter what. A deal is a deal. The time to negotiate is during the initial transaction, once the deal is made that’s it.
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Oh, I hate that.
I have been burned myself by agreeing to terms on poor pictures... but i paid what i said i would pay.
 
Jim C. said:
You could have split that into a couple of posts and been in double-digits by now. 😁

A little bit late, but welcome to CFF!
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I was considering doing that, but figured that would be to obvious. 😎 With my God gifted ability to ramble on about sense-full and senseless information, I figured I'll be good in no time.

Jay
 
DrScaryGuy said:
Oh, I hate that.
I have been burned myself by agreeing to terms on poor pictures... but i paid what i said i would pay.
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If they have misrepresented the item for sale or used careful angles to hide undisclosed damage or wear you're within your rights to refuse the item or renegotiate.
 
NCLivingBrit said:
If they have misrepresented the item for sale or used careful angles to hide undisclosed damage or wear you're within your rights to refuse the item or renegotiate.
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True.

Unless I am buying something from a member I know personally and well, I usually tell them “you have a deal, based upon inspection (or mutual inspection if it’s a trade).”

I’ve never had an issue but I try to make it clear.
 
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