Speer 158gr LSWCHP

[Ruger Dude]

I have a few Speer .358" 158gr LSWCHP and was curious if anyone has any data showing the velocity needed to expand this projectile? It is swaged so it is pretty soft . I loaded a few using HP38 in a 357 mag. case and got an average velocity of 870 fps. out of a 4" barrel. I have no idea and have not found the ideal velocity for this hollow point to expand hence my question. The closest factory round I could find was the Remington 38 special +P 158 gr. LHP. Lucky gunner did a five round test with the Remington round through a 2" barrel and the best I can tell seemed to get the best expansion at the median test velocity of 802 fps. I wanted to see if anyone else had done any expansion testing with the Speer .358" 158gr LSWCHP and what velocities they found to get the best expansion.

Lucky Gunner Test

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[Windini]

I have not, but would love to see & hear what you find out... or do yourself! Seems like a chronograph and a box full of water jugs might tell you what you want to know.

(Then again, I don't know how "few" you have; maybe not enough to spend on testing.)

 

[Ruger Dude]

From what I gather from my recent research is that 800 fps to 900 fps will work.

 

[Etruett]

From what I gather from my recent research is that 800 fps to 900 fps will work.

I think that’s what I’ve heard from other test results. Rim Rock had one that is supposed to expand well at 700fps

 

[Ruger Dude]

If this is the case the load I have already worked up using the HP38 is about right at 870 fps. The ES for that load is (37) and the SD is (10). The next step As Windini mentioned will be to do some water and or wet paper testing to see how well it expands.

 

[Ruger Dude]

Just an FYI. I shot twelve rounds of the load I already worked up and twelve that I added a tenth of a grain to.

HP38 Original load: average velocity 831 fps. , ES 12, SD 4

HP38 Load with added one tenth grain: average velocity 852 fps. , ES 31, SD 11

I shot two rounds through five one gallon water filled bleach jugs with a small two inch thick styrofoam cooler packed with bubble wrap.
The original load penetrated all the jugs but did not enter the cooler. The projectile was nowhere to be found. The added one tenth grain load penetrated the jugs and went through the cooler and into the bubble wrap . Both loads were accurate and repeatable at seven yards (see image). There was next to no expansion in the found projectile (see image).

 

[Windini]

The original load penetrated all the jugs but did not enter the cooler. The projectile was nowhere to be found

Nice test! Thanks for posting, and sorry you didn't get any expansion.

I assume you presume the "missing" projectile veered off course between jugs & cooler? Unlikely it expanded enough to fragment if the hotter load dind't expand much at all.

 

[Ruger Dude]

The missing projectile went through the back side of the last jug in a spot where it should have penetrated the cooler but did not. There was a small indentation on the cooler that was in the right spot to be from an impact but I cannot be sure if it was from the projectile. The cooler was right up against the last jug so it would have had to of come out of that jug at a 45 degree angle but it still should have hit the cooler? Bullets can do some weird stuff some times. It should have been about spent by the time it went through the last jug. I looked around on the ground for it with no luck. I expected those Speer LSWCHP to be pretty soft.

 

[Ruger Dude]

An FYI for those who may be interested. I found some older load data using HP38 under the Speer .357, 158gr LSWCHP. The data is a little hotter than what is published these days. I worked up some loads starting at the charge weight I stopped at the other day (see OP). I wanted to find out the velocity needed to get those 158gr LSWCHP to expand. I increased the charge weight by .2 grains until I got the results I was looking for. I shot the test rounds using a GP100 with a four inch barrel through three one gallon water jugs backed by a 24"x12"x12" Styrofoam box filled with white sand. I attached an image showing the condensed results. The top row bullets stopped in the second water jug and the middle row bullets stopped in the third water jug. The bottom four rounds penetrated the jugs and embedded in the sand. There were no outward signs of over pressure and recoil was minimal. I am comfortable with the results.

 

[Bigbore5]

I shoot alot of a 115gr penta hp with a bhn of 10.2. I typically see expansion on coyotes and groundhogs down to the 800fps impact velocity. Best expansion without fragmentation with the 2/2/96 alloy is between 900fps and 1050fps at impact.
Check the bhn on your bullets.

 

[Etruett]

If you are looking for a self defense bullet and I would also say a great hunting bullet, you need to research the Lehigh Defense bullets. There are too many variables that can effect the performance of a hollow point. If you get a lead bullet that is soft enough to expand at lower velocities, it might not give you the penetration you want especially through heavy clothing or if it hits a rib bone going in. Also hollow points can become clogged with clothing and not expand at all. Try shooting a hollow point through sheetrock and watch it clog the cavity and turn it into a fmj bullet. @BatteryOaksBilly and myself have both determined that this is the bomb for self defense. The test results are amazing. It is my carry bullet in 9mm as well as 38 special. Not cheap, but they work. Sometimes they can be hard to find, but I was able to find some recently direct from Lehigh Defense. If you don't reload, they are available from Underwood in their Honey Badger line. Check out the videos at Lehigh Defense as well as youtube.

 

[BatteryOaksBilly]

There are too many variables that can effect the performance of a hollow point. If you get a lead bullet that is soft enough to expand at lower velocities, it might not give you the penetration you want especially through heavy clothing or if it hits a rib bone going in. Also hollow points can become clogged with clothing and not expand at all. Try shooting a hollow point through sheetrock and watch it clog the cavity and turn it into a fmj bullet.

Thanks Pard...nothing to add on the expansion conversation........
NOW on the self defense end Only 2 things matter.........
PLACEMENT & PENETRATION...ONLY 2 THINGS.....

Also remember.....handguns are pitiful......they are portable.