State or Federal infringement?

Rebel1776

Rebel1776

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I've been keeping up with the Pistol Purchase permit repeal since it was filed, and it looks like it might actually go somewhere. But it has started to make me think, since it is unlikely we will ever be able to go back to treating guns as just another tool you can buy at any hardware store. Who would you rather have doing the job of running background checks? Your local sheriff/state gov or the federal government? Now don't get me wrong I want the PPP to be repealed I hate it, but I honestly would rather deal with my local sheriff than the feds. Now I live in Union county so we got a very pro 2a sheriff and that maybe why but what are yalls opinions on this? Maybe there could be a state NICS that would be an alternative to the federal one.
 
I think that a pistol purchase permit should not be required if purchasing from an FFL, as they do the same NICS check onsite. The only thing it may save you from there is if the system is down when you go in to purchase? On private pistol sales, I want to see a concealed permit or a PPP as evidence the buyer is allowed. With no PPP, people would be forced to get a concealed permit if they ever wanted to buy private legally....
 
The local sheriff office isn’t doing much more than running a federal check and giving you a piece of paper as it is, so the question is kind of pointless.

Its time to assert freedom, even if we have to back that assertion with force instead of “Pretty please do the right thing or we’ll vote harder next time.”
 
Rebel1776 said:
I've been keeping up with the Pistol Purchase permit repeal since it was filed, and it looks like it might actually go somewhere. But it has started to make me think, since it is unlikely we will ever be able to go back to treating guns as just another tool you can buy at any hardware store. Who would you rather have doing the job of running background checks? Your local sheriff/state gov or the federal government? Now don't get me wrong I want the PPP to be repealed I hate it, but I honestly would rather deal with my local sheriff than the feds. Now I live in Union county so we got a very pro 2a sheriff and that maybe why but what are yalls opinions on this? Maybe there could be a state NICS that would be an alternative to the federal one.
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Just drop the PPP, no other change is required at this time. Gotta keep it simple.
 
Rebel1776 said:
I've been keeping up with the Pistol Purchase permit repeal since it was filed, and it looks like it might actually go somewhere. But it has started to make me think, since it is unlikely we will ever be able to go back to treating guns as just another tool you can buy at any hardware store. Who would you rather have doing the job of running background checks? Your local sheriff/state gov or the federal government? Now don't get me wrong I want the PPP to be repealed I hate it, but I honestly would rather deal with my local sheriff than the feds. Now I live in Union county so we got a very pro 2a sheriff and that maybe why but what are yalls opinions on this? Maybe there could be a state NICS that would be an alternative to the federal one.
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Here's how it should work. We should be able to deal with ANY sheriff. That way, if one of our brothers/sisters is unfortunate enough to live in Orange or Durham County, he/she can go to a neighboring county and get a permit. The same rules and checks would apply. But it would actually get done.
 
Rebel1776 said:
I've been keeping up with the Pistol Purchase permit repeal since it was filed, and it looks like it might actually go somewhere. But it has started to make me think, since it is unlikely we will ever be able to go back to treating guns as just another tool you can buy at any hardware store. Who would you rather have doing the job of running background checks? Your local sheriff/state gov or the federal government? Now don't get me wrong I want the PPP to be repealed I hate it, but I honestly would rather deal with my local sheriff than the feds. Now I live in Union county so we got a very pro 2a sheriff and that maybe why but what are yalls opinions on this? Maybe there could be a state NICS that would be an alternative to the federal one.
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Go in to the LGS and it usually takes a few minutes. The longest a NICS ever took for me was about half an hour. I left the store after 20 mins. to wait it out because I knew there should be no issues and got called before I even got home. The system was running slow according to the clerk. You are looking at it with the point of view from a place where your sheriff doesn't have to be sued because it's taking many months if not a year to get what you need.
 
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Two problems….

Having to acquire a permit to purchase a handgun is, by its very nature, an infringement on the liberty of a free citizen.

Additionally, having to endure a background check for a permit or the 4473 process assumes a citizen is guilty until proven innocent.

You walk into shop, pick out what you want, pay your money, seal the deal with a handshake and walk out…period….that’s it. Government should not be involved in the process at all.

“But…but…we gotta have some rules!”

We do and they were penned on parchment in 1791.
 
And if you fret over the possibility of felons getting guns..... Well I hate to break it to you, but they already do....

Stop locking people up for process crimes, drug possession, and sex work. Lock up the truly violent felons and don't let them back out. If I can't trust you with a gun then maybe I can't trust you to walk around where knives, bats, hammers, etc are also laying around on store shelves willy nilly.
 
Dale Gribble said:
Two problems….

Having to acquire a permit to purchase a handgun is, by its very nature, an infringement on the liberty of a free citizen.

Additionally, having to endure a background check for a permit or the 4473 process assumes a citizen is guilty until proven innocent.

You walk into shop, pick out what you want, pay your money, seal the deal with a handshake and walk out…period….that’s it. Government should not be involved in the process at all.

“But…but…we gotta have some rules!”

We do and they were penned on parchment in 1791.
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I wish it was that simple. I wish then they (FF) squashed all state gun control laws, but they didn't. The penned 2A, but also allowed states to have, in some cases draconian, gun control laws. If they stepped in right off the bat and told the states 2A trumps every gun law and 'no infringement' means 'no infringement', we would not be here today.
 
3 things.
1. regarding: "he/she can go to a neighboring county and get a permit." brought up by two fingers,
that was the way the original bill was written but it was eliminated to get NCSA support.
2. Gowolfpack: "Unless they're denying your permit because they don't like the cut of you jib."
which was the original intent of PPP...deny based upon nothing more than the Sheriff's opinion.
3. the bill will pass in the Senate, and Cooper will veto it....just because.
so, if you would like to get rid of PPP, get active with your state senator/representative for an override.
they are constantly hearing from the "other side", and they need to hear from our side. more than once.
 
TripleO7 said:
Please, by all means edify.
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Concealed carry is prohibited by statute with a carve out for those with a state-issued license, the CHP. If the CHP is eliminated you don’t get constitutional carry, you get open carry only.
 
I like the federal NICS check. It's not perfect but it beats having to deal with local politicians. It's the same system whether you are in NC or Utah. Yes, I know that anyone can acquire a gun even though there are some that should not possess one. I've read that the NICS check has actually stopped felons and others from acquiring a weapon. If you are so stupid that you can't figure out how to fill out the form then in my opinion you should not be able to purchase a firearm or even acquire a drivers license! Beats the TSA at the airports that's for sure. They haven't caught one terrorist since the agency was founded. I think the 4473 should be changed where the Serial numbers and Make are eliminated. Do the NICS check and do not worry about what someone is purchasing.

I would like to see all paperwork and record keeping disappear, including Class 3, but I'm a realist and that is not going to happen.
 
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JimB said:
Concealed carry is prohibited by statute with a carve out for those with a state-issued license, the CHP. If the CHP is eliminated you don’t get constitutional carry, you get open carry only.
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I get what you're saying.

My intention was can it all. I buy a gun, who gives a damn how I carry it? Those with ill intent don't walk a round with their illegally obtained weapons hanging out for all to see, why should I after having to have to go through NICS?
 
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HB398 on the Senate Calendar for tomorrow. We shall see what happens..............

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TripleO7 said:
I get what you're saying.

My intention was can it all. I buy a gun, who gives a damn how I carry it? Those with ill intent don't walk a round with their illegally obtained weapons hanging out for all to see, why should I after having to have to go through NICS?
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Have no disagreement over that intent, it’d be great to get rid of it all.
 
Well H398 passed the senate and is going to be sent to the Governor, which he will promptly veto I just hope they can override it.
 
Rebel1776 said:
Well H398 passed the senate and is going to be sent to the Governor, which he will promptly veto I just hope they can override it.
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Do you know what the vote count was in each house?
 
Look beyond just NC.
In MA there are 350+ different standards and rules to get permit. It is easier for a non resident to get an MA permit than more than half the residents of the state.
Even in NC, anti gun sheriffs use dozens of tactics to delay that statutory time clocks from starting. Even before COVID it could take a year in some counties.

Democrats are trying to impose federal permits and licenses. That can't happen.
Every state should be constitutional carry.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 
Rebel1776 said:
Well H398 passed the senate and is going to be sent to the Governor, which he will promptly veto I just hope they can override i
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Cooper will certainly veto it, but even if the votes aren't there for a veto override now doesn't mean it is dead. Lots of bills take more than one attempt to get through, but if we can get Robinson elected Governor a lot of things are going to change. And I think he will be a very difficult candidate for the Dims to defeat. Yeah, I know I am a terminal optimist, but I think this is one we are eventually going to win.
 
JimB said:
Just drop the PPP, no other change is required at this time. Gotta keep it simple.
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sure. we can compromise at that.
but please understand that i am every bit as driven as the anti-gun folks, except completely opposite.
We can compromise to eliminate the PPP today, but tomorrow i'll want no NICS. Next week i'll be pushing for no gun laws at all.
 
DrScaryGuy said:
sure. we can compromise at that.
but please understand that i am every bit as driven as the anti-gun folks, except completely opposite.
We can compromise to eliminate the PPP today, but tomorrow i'll want no NICS. Next week i'll be pushing for no gun laws at all.
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Take what you can get now and come back for more later when people see the sky didn't fall and we aren't having any increase in crime as a result. We can ratchet things in our direction just as well as the lefties can.
 
DrScaryGuy said:
sure. we can compromise at that.
but please understand that i am every bit as driven as the anti-gun folks, except completely opposite.
We can compromise to eliminate the PPP today, but tomorrow i'll want no NICS. Next week i'll be pushing for no gun laws at all.
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Of course, it’s like getting someone to eat an elephant, you don’t show them the whole thing at once. Legislative strategy is like a form of chess where any piece you take returns to it’s starting place. The players gain and lose leverage over time, but the game never ends, both sides are attacking and both sides are defending all the time.
 
Tucci454 said:
I think that a pistol purchase permit should not be required if purchasing from an FFL, as they do the same NICS check onsite.
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^^^THIS.

If I can walk out the door with a pistol & clear NICS check in freakin' Pittsburgh, PA (or EVEN Philthy! :oops:) within 5 minutes, it shouldn't hafta involve half a day at the Sheriff's Office first!

If the county sheriff's still want their $5 'background check' TAX, then have the legislature PASS a $5/pistol tax, to go to the county SD where the sale takes place, and be done with it. I know I'd of been willing to pay $5 more, to avoid twiddling my thumbs at the Sheriff's office for an hour (or more) first.
 
fishgutzy said:
Democrats are trying to impose federal permits and licenses. That can't happen.
Every state should be constitutional carry.
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So you don’t want federal oversight, but you think someone should be dictating what other states should be doing? Seems slightly inconsistent, kinda like a tyrant is fine as long as he’s my tyrant.

FWIW, I think we should have constitutional carry in every state, but each state has to get there it can’t be imposed from outside.
 
JimB said:
So you don’t want federal oversight, but you think someone should be dictating what other states should be doing? Seems slightly inconsistent, kinda like a tyrant is fine as long as he’s my tyrant.

FWIW, I think we should have constitutional carry in every state, but each state has to get there it can’t be imposed from outside.
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My meaning was that the RKBA does not require Gov't permission. It already exists.
Politicians and judges have been allowed to get away with unconstitutional infringement with each saying the other said they could.
I am not a legal scholar but it goes back to the first time a judge declared that all rights have this unwritten exception "except when there is a compelling Gov't interest."
That phrase doesn't exist anywhere in the constitution for a reason. They knew it would be used to turn preexisting rights that were to be protected, into Gov't issued privileges.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
 
The War Wagon said:
^^^THIS.

If I can walk out the door with a pistol & clear NICS check in freakin' Pittsburgh, PA (or EVEN Philthy! :oops:) within 5 minutes, it shouldn't hafta involve half a day at the Sheriff's Office first!

If the county sheriff's still want their $5 'background check' TAX, then have the legislature PASS a $5/pistol tax, to go to the county SD where the sale takes place, and be done with it. I know I'd of been willing to pay $5 more, to avoid twiddling my thumbs at the Sheriff's office for an hour (or more) first.
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This would be a great step, when I was listening to the debate the Democrat's focused heavily on private sales and online purchases. However if we focused on getting rid of it from FFLs then they don't really have a good argument against it, not ideal but it would be a good step.
 
Stick said:
Cooper will certainly veto it, but even if the votes aren't there for a veto override now doesn't mean it is dead. Lots of bills take more than one attempt to get through, but if we can get Robinson elected Governor a lot of things are going to change. And I think he will be a very difficult candidate for the Dims to defeat. Yeah, I know I am a terminal optimist, but I think this is one we are eventually going to win.
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I agree however when have been trying to repeal this since like 2015, I'm getting tired of seeing it be introduced then fail.
 
Walkabout Dan said:
Any infringement on a law abiding citizen to obtain any gun by any level of government
is a violation of the constitution.
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As has been said more than 10,000 times on this forum this year, but so what?
 
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