Stop jerking that trigger

IroquoisPliskin

IroquoisPliskin

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Anyone else feel like no matter how much they dry fire they still jerk the damn trigger when going about letting live rounds fly? Especially when breaking out the big bore handguns...
*(Continues to click double action 45 pointed at the wall for hours in frustration)
 
When dry firing, do you jerk the trigger? And do the sights move out of alignment? If you don’t jerk the trigger during dry firing exercises and the sights stay alined, you are recoil sensitive. Which would explain why it’s worse when you shoot larger caliber handguns.


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Average Joe said:
When dry firing, do you jerk the trigger? And do the sights move out of alignment? If you don’t jerk the trigger during dry firing exercises and the sights stay alined, you are recoil sensitive. Which would explain why it’s worse when you shoot larger caliber handguns.


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At my house practicing no, never jerk it (haha) but when. I'm out blasting and I stop to dry fire for a second, yes I do notice a jerk sometimes.
 
Most people don’t actually “jerk” the trigger. You can do whatever the hell you want to a trigger, and if the gun is held still throughout the shot, the bullet ends up where the gun was pointed.

People flinch in anticipation of recoil, and part of that flinch is a sympathetic squeeze of the firing hand… and low-and-away the bullet goes.

But it’s not a trigger control issue. It’s a whole-body reaction to shooting that works from the shoulders through the hands.

The only thing that broke through the “flinch” wall for me was mag-dumping into a berm until I started to see flash sight pictures. It was basically concussion inoculation. Good ear pro and feeling mentally confident in your own strength/fitness to manage recoil helps.
 
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JRV said:
Most people don’t actually “jerk” the trigger. You can do whatever the hell you want to a trigger, and if the gun is held still throughout the shot, the bullet ends up where the gun was pointed.

People flinch in anticipation of recoil, and part of that flinch is a sympathetic squeeze of the firing hand… and low-and-away the bullet goes.

But it’s not a trigger control issue. It’s a whole-body reaction to shooting that works from the shoulders through the hands.

The only thing that broke through the “flinch” wall for me was mag-dumping into a berm until I started to see flash sight pictures. It was basically concussion inoculation. Good ear pro and feeling mentally confident in your own strength/fitness to manage recoil helps.
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I have a mental thing and I'll start gorilla gripping the gun trying to hold it still and then the whole thing will start jittering so I'm like back and forth between hypergrip and being too loose, only with the mk23 tho...
 
IroquoisPliskin said:
I have a mental thing and I'll start gorilla gripping the gun trying to hold it still and then the whole thing will start jittering so I'm like back and forth between hypergrip and being too loose, only with the mk23 tho...
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Depending on hand size, the MK23 might just be an ergonomic nightmare for you. The ones I’ve shot have never had great triggers either (tons of overtravel and spongy breaks).

Gripping to the point of shaking is too much, but if you’re only experiencing two extremes (“hypergrip and being too loose”), it could be weak hands, weak wrists, terrible gun fit, not having received adequate instruction on grip technique… really any or all of the above. It’s basically impossible to remedy without being with the shooter in-person.
 
JRV said:
Depending on hand size, the MK23 might just be an ergonomic nightmare for you. The ones I’ve shot have never had great triggers either (tons of overtravel and spongy breaks).

Gripping to the point of shaking is too much, but if you’re only experiencing two extremes (“hypergrip and being too loose”), it could be weak hands, weak wrists, terrible gun fit, not having received adequate instruction on grip technique… really any or all of the above. It’s basically impossible to remedy without being with the shooter in-person.
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Its not like an extreme low left issue, more of just groups I'm not happy with, especially when I have a usp45 tac that I can put a 3 shot group into a quarter size hole at 10 yds with. I shoot IDPA (and sometimes win) with this USP when I'm not using one of my gamer 19 or 2011's. The trigger on any of those three is DRASTICALLY better than the mk23 though.

It's just disappointing to me having this big giant mk23 that I can't shoot that straight. There was a thread on another forum ab using a mk23 in competition and the consensus was "I don't think it would be fair for the other shooters" bc it's supposed to be "SOOOOO ACCURATE" they said.

Well accuracy doesn't mean s*** if you can't hold the thing straight. I really didn't think it was too big, but it might just be tooOoo big...
 
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IroquoisPliskin said:
Its not like an extreme low left issue, more of just groups I'm not happy with, especially when I have a usp45 tac that I can put a 3 shot group into a quarter size hole at 10 yds with. I shoot IDPA (and sometimes win) with this USP when I'm not using one of my gamer 19 or 2011's. The trigger on any of those three is DRASTICALLY better than the mk23 though.

It's just disappointing to me having this big giant mk23 that I can't shoot that straight. There was a thread on another forum ab using a mk23 in competition and the consensus was "I don't think it would be fair for the other shooters" bc it's supposed to be "SOOOOO ACCURATE" they said.

Well accuracy doesn't mean s*** if you can't hold the thing straight. I really didn't think it was too big, but it might just be tooOoo big...
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Mechanical accuracy vs accurate in your hands. I personally cannot shoot large double stack 45 ACPs. I have owned HK45s and they do not wok for my hands. It does not matter if they are accurate for other people they are not for me. The same is true with the CZ97. I try to love but it just does not "fit" me. I stopped long ago trying to shoe horn myself into pistol that don't fit me. I am willing to bet the HK23 simply does not work for you because of a combination of grip, weight, size etc.....
 
If the Mk23 had a stock it would be its own SBR or PDW. It's very big. Suppressed it is HUGE. If you have small hands you have to work at it. Not saying you are weak, but if you are weak, you have to work at it. If you tire when you pull the trigger in DA repeatedly, you have to work at it. Here's a pic of me and the Mk23; I have video but I keep forgetting we don't do video here. I have small hands; I really have to work at large frame manipulation. It can be done.

Mk23.jpg
 
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Chuckman said:
If the Mk23 had a stock it would be its own SBR or PDW. It's very big. Suppressed it is HUGE. If you have small hands you have to work at it. Not saying you are weak, but if you are weak, you have to work at it. If you tire when you pull the trigger in DA repeatedly, you have to work at it. Here's a pic of me and the Mk23; I have video but I keep forgetting we don't do video here. I have small hands; I really have to work at large frame manipulation. It can be done.

View attachment 434608
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Do you find you are able to shoot decent groups with it? The more I shoot mine the better the groups look but it still is crap compared to a group I make with a 2011 in 45.
 
IroquoisPliskin said:
Do you find you are able to shoot decent groups with it? The more I shoot mine the better the groups look but it still is crap compared to a group I make with a 2011 in 45.
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Am I making 'one ragged hole'? No. Hand-sized groupings? Yes. Combat accurate, but not competition accurate. I am sure there are those who are competition accurate but I would be suspicious if they said they did not so something to help them out (i.e., trigger work, etc.).

I know guys who are or have been in the units for which it was designed to be used. They never used it for what it's worth.
 
It's Similar to hunting and the noise associated with the gun firing.

When I shoot a deer, I never notice the noise.

That's because my focus is elsewhere.

My advice is to shoot a match or plate rack or something reactive. Shooting paper leaves your brain focused on recoil and noise.
 
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Chuckman said:
Am I making 'one ragged hole'? No. Hand-sized groupings? Yes. Combat accurate, but not competition accurate. I am sure there are those who are competition accurate but I would be suspicious if they said they did not so something to help them out (i.e., trigger work, etc.).

I know guys who are or have been in the units for which it was designed to be used. They never used it for what it's worth.
Click to expand...

Chuckman said:
Am I making 'one ragged hole'? No. Hand-sized groupings? Yes. Combat accurate, but not competition accurate. I am sure there are those who are competition accurate but I would be suspicious if they said they did not so something to help them out (i.e., trigger work, etc.).

I know guys who are or have been in the units for which it was designed to be used. They never used it for what it's worth.
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I am now more just jealous that you have a suppressor on yours and I don't.
 
IroquoisPliskin said:
I have a mental thing and I'll start gorilla gripping the gun trying to hold it still and then the whole thing will start jittering so I'm like back and forth between hypergrip and being too loose, only with the mk23 tho...
Click to expand...
Sounds dangerous.

I don't think someone with this problem should be armed.
 
If you want to get better at this really fast, practice shooting partial targets on the move...forward, backwards, and sideways.
Just do nothing but practice shooting on the move for 1 month. You will get better quick.
 
Ima be the contrarian this time:

Pull up gun, line up sights, press (or jerk or slap or whatever) trigger to the rear without disturbing sight picture: hit.

The shape of the gun/grip/whatever doesn’t cause recoil anticipation IMO. It doesn’t matter. It’s a preference.

Show me a guy that prints tiny groups with his favorite gun and I’ll show you a man who prints tiny groups with any gun.
 
NKD said:
Ima be the contrarian this time:

Pull up gun, line up sights, press (or jerk or slap or whatever) trigger to the rear without disturbing sight picture: hit.

The shape of the gun/grip/whatever doesn’t cause recoil anticipation IMO. It doesn’t matter. It’s a preference.

Show me a guy that prints tiny groups with his favorite gun and I’ll show you a man who prints tiny groups with any gun.
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Counterpoint:

Handgun fit isn’t anything like shotgun fit, but if you can’t get your finger on the trigger blade in a position to apply straight rearward pressure through the break point, then you cannot properly pull the trigger.

A straight rearward trigger slap is better than a smooth trigger press that’s 15 degrees off-axis. If you are applying any lateral force when the sear or striker trips, you end up inducing error. If your trigger has a lot of overtravel, that vector has more magnitude in an undesirable (not-straight-back) direction. If the break is heavy or gritty, it exacerbates the error.

I can shoot tiny groups with my match pistols, but you stick something too-small (like a P32) or too-big (like a Desert Eagle) in my hands, and it’s not going to be pretty.
 
Are you jerking because of recoil anticipation or noise? Put in foam ear plugs then top with muffs and that will eliminate noise. Might help
 
JRV said:
Counterpoint:

Handgun fit isn’t anything like shotgun fit, but if you can’t get your finger on the trigger blade in a position to apply straight rearward pressure through the break point, then you cannot properly pull the trigger.

A straight rearward trigger slap is better than a smooth trigger press that’s 15 degrees off-axis. If you are applying any lateral force when the sear or striker trips, you end up inducing error. If your trigger has a lot of overtravel, that vector has more magnitude in an undesirable (not-straight-back) direction. If the break is heavy or gritty, it exacerbates the error.

I can shoot tiny groups with my match pistols, but you stick something too-small (like a P32) or too-big (like a Desert Eagle) in my hands, and it’s not going to be pretty.
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Good points! I think shotgun fit is actually a real good example that drives the point.

But sounds like recoil anticipation, not gun fitment.

Can gun ergos amplify or exacerbate bad technique? I would agree with that.
 
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I agree with Amps. I think double ear protection will often improve this reflex. Recoil on most carry guns is very manageable. I would try this trick!
 
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[mention]IroquoisPliskin [/mention] what you described is not a trigger issue. You are recoil sensitive and as you press the trigger you begin to tense up as you anticipate the recoil. There has been a lot of discussion above so I will not go into any details about the trigger press and sight alignment. To help you, get some dummy rounds. Have a friend load your magazines with a mixture of live and dummy rounds. As you are shooting, focus on pressing the trigger and keeping the sights aligned. You will begin to notice as you fire on a dummy round how much you are really moving the gun. Next keep telling yourself that your next shot is a dummy round and there will be no recoil. The point is to get your attention away from the recoil and focused on the trigger press and the sights. This is a good start to working on your issue. There are other drill that will help you but do not overload yourself all at once. Keep dry firing, it sounds like you have the mechanics down and this will still be beneficial.
 
Average Joe said:
[mention]IroquoisPliskin [/mention] what you described is not a trigger issue. You are recoil sensitive and as you press the trigger you begin to tense up as you anticipate the recoil. There has been a lot of discussion above so I will not go into any details about the trigger press and sight alignment. To help you, get some dummy rounds. Have a friend load your magazines with a mixture of live and dummy rounds. As you are shooting, focus on pressing the trigger and keeping the sights aligned. You will begin to notice as you fire on a dummy round how much you are really moving the gun. Next keep telling yourself that your next shot is a dummy round and there will be no recoil. The point is to get your attention away from the recoil and focused on the trigger press and the sights. This is a good start to working on your issue. There are other drill that will help you but do not overload yourself all at once. Keep dry firing, it sounds like you have the mechanics down and this will still be beneficial.
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So on Single action I dont really have the problem, but mainly firing in DA it is almost impossible for me to get it where I want it to go. @JRV pretty much drove the point home about extra large handguns being the cause in addition to that and I think hes got the winning opinion about what to do about it.
 
I started out with a single action .22lr revolver and I shot decent with it. Later on I got a striker fired trigger...... and I could stay on the target but I was all over the target!!

The short crisp trigger of the revolver combined with low recoil allowed me to get away with slapping the trigger a bit........ the striker fired pistol with a more powerful cartridge showed my flaws.

The dry firing exercises are great..... watch the sights as the trigger breaks, the coin on the barrel, watch a laser sight, etc, these are good.

All guns recoil...you just have to get over it and do what you have been practicing.... and just let it kick a little..... it's OK. Let it surprise you, don't anticipate it.

With practice you will be able to do better, just keep paying attention and thinking about what you did.

Later on you might develop a technique where you do push forward a little bit to control the recoil for faster shooting, but it takes time and practice.
 
IroquoisPliskin said:
So on Single action I dont really have the problem, but mainly firing in DA it is almost impossible for me to get it where I want it to go. @JRV pretty much drove the point home about extra large handguns being the cause in addition to that and I think hes got the winning opinion about what to do about it.
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I’d bet you have have it, but the single action trigger allows you to get away with it more. Try dummy rounds in the single action and see what happens.
 
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Average Joe said:
I’d bet you have have it, but the single action trigger allows you to get away with it more. Try dummy rounds in the single action and see what happens.
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whenever I shoot the Mk23 Im always anticipating a 45 super to go off even if there is just regular old 45 acp in there. I totally forgot to mention that part haha
 
BowWow said:
I started out with a single action .22lr revolver and I shot decent with it. Later on I got a striker fired trigger...... and I could stay on the target but I was all over the target!!

The short crisp trigger of the revolver combined with low recoil allowed me to get away with slapping the trigger a bit........ the striker fired pistol with a more powerful cartridge showed my flaws.

The dry firing exercises are great..... watch the sights as the trigger breaks, the coin on the barrel, watch a laser sight, etc, these are good.

All guns recoil...you just have to get over it and do what you have been practicing.... and just let it kick a little..... it's OK. Let it surprise you, don't anticipate it.

With practice you will be able to do better, just keep paying attention and thinking about what you did.

Later on you might develop a technique where you do push forward a little bit to control the recoil for faster shooting, but it takes time and practice.
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Is your profile pic your significant other? If so I'm sure you're just better at hitting the spot than most of us...
 
IroquoisPliskin said:
Is your profile pic your significant other? If so I'm sure you're just better at hitting the spot than most of us...
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No, but it was a woman looking after her dog, and my screen name is BowWow, I'm a sucker for a dog! Mrs. BowWow ain't too shabby tho
 
IroquoisPliskin said:
whenever I shoot the Mk23 Im always anticipating a 45 super to go off even if there is just regular old 45 acp in there. I totally forgot to mention that part haha
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You have just solved the issue yourself. It is nothing to do with the gun or the trigger press.


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NKD said:
Pull up gun, line up sights, press (or jerk or slap or whatever) trigger to the rear without disturbing sight picture: hit.
Click to expand...
See sight lift.....

and RETURN...
 
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