Straw purchase in Canada?

Discussion in 'Firearms News and Views' started by bashman, Jun 21, 2020.

  1. bashman

    bashman Happy to be here

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    What do you think? Straw purchase?

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    Mom


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  2. BurnedOutGeek

    BurnedOutGeek What's this button do? Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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  3. kcult

    kcult Alcohol fueled dumbass Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Yeah. If they gonna straw purchase, take it to Armslist.
     
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  4. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    I think I’m not the buyer or seller, so I’m not gonna worry about it.
     
  5. Jerzsubbie

    Jerzsubbie Senior Member Charter Member Benefactor Supporting Member

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    Seems pretty stupid to discuss that publicly. Per Abramski v. United States, 573 U.S. ____ (2014) he just admitted to arranging a straw purchase.
     
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  6. Pink_Vapor

    Pink_Vapor “Not as funny as he thinks he is”, spouse Supporting Member

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    Mom?
     
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  7. JimB

    JimB Picking it up slowly. Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    He never said that he would give his brother the money or that his brother would buy the gun for him, he just said that he couldn’t buy it so his brother was going to. I see no risk at all for the seller.
     
  8. Mirac

    Mirac Epic Replies ---> Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Yeah, you know exactly what's going to happen...
    Illegal the way it was said, No.
     
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  9. Sevenshot

    Sevenshot Well-Known Member Life Member

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    Straw purchasing in this case has been unclear to me. If you are purchasing for someone who is legally able to own then is it a straw purchase? I thought part of a straw purchase is buying for someone who otherwise can't obtain a firearm.
     
  10. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    You’d think...but nope.
     
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  11. Sevenshot

    Sevenshot Well-Known Member Life Member

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    So every firearm as a gift is a straw purchase? Don't think so(?): http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/page03.htm

    ATF states the purchaser can answer they are the owner on 4473.

    However, to keep from derailing the thread the guy is still admitting that he's trying to get around the ffl to ffl For residents of different states so that's a no go.
     
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  12. Catfish

    Catfish E Pluribus Mendacium Supporting Member

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    If its not at an FFL its not a straw purchase.

    You sell it to a legal NC resident & its up to him to transfer it properly to the next guy.

    Now, I only read the first two panels. If there was clear stated intent to do something illegal i missed it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
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  13. Catfish

    Catfish E Pluribus Mendacium Supporting Member

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    Nope. If your legal buddy hands you cash and you go into the shop, fill out the paperwork, and leave with a pistol.... guess what?
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
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  14. Derek8404

    Derek8404 Plank Owner Charter Member

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    Is there any case data where someone has been even charged in this type of scenario? The way I read it, a straw purchase is getting a firearm for someone who isn’t legally able to own/buy one.
     
  15. bashman

    bashman Happy to be here

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    In the case of this ad, the perspective buyer isn’t legally able to buy the handgun*. He is a resident of another state.
    *legally to buy in NC, which is where the handgun is


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  16. Derek8404

    Derek8404 Plank Owner Charter Member

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    Eh..... semantics, I’d still like to see a case where someone has actually been charged with this. Assuming it’s the same type of scenario obviously.
     
  17. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    You can search for “straw purchase site:atf.gov” and read story after story.

    Main two categories are:
    1. Buying for a prohibited person
    2. Buying for someone not wanting their name associated with the purchase

    Here’s one story that never mentions the person was prohibited: https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/straw-purchaser-convicted-role-firearms-trafficking

    I’m sure it happens quite often.
     
  18. HMP

    HMP Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Gifts? I mean, ive received guns as gifts, many on here have given or received them too - cant really be illegal, right?
     
  19. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    You should probably read a 4473 one day. ;)

    Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, a person is the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is purchasing the firearm for him/herself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for him/herself. (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn, retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party. A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm.

    ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer "NO" to question 11.a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown buys the firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a gift (with no service or tangible thing of value provided by Mr. Black), Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer "YES" to question 11.a. However, the transferor/seller may not transfer a firearm to any person he/she knows or has reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. 922(g), (n) or (x). EXCEPTION: If a person is picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, he/she is not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b.
     
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  20. DrScaryGuy

    DrScaryGuy Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    was the gun gift gifted cross state lines and bypassed an ffl that the law required it to go through?
    don't answer, just think.

    also, all gun laws are illegal
     
  21. OutLore

    OutLore I'm a Brit.

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    He didn't say the brother-in-law was going to buy it for him - he said his brother-in-law would buy it and let him shoot it occasionally. Technically, not a straw purchase IMO, but it's clouded by the fact that it's known the first guy originally wanted to buy it for himself.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2020
  22. premise

    premise outwardly solipsistic Life Member

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    People sometimes complicate things...
     
  23. dubnali

    dubnali Active Member

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    FIFY
     
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  24. Charlie

    Charlie Member

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    Where does Canada enter the picture? Isn't this supposed to be about a straw purchase in Canada? Did I read the title wrong?
     
  25. Sevenshot

    Sevenshot Well-Known Member Life Member

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    I think it means the other Carolina forum.
     
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  26. Charlie

    Charlie Member

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    OK. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
  27. phideux

    phideux Member

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    That place is still around??
     
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  28. Button Pusher

    Button Pusher Well-Known Member Benefactor Supporting Member

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    Yes, they continue to get new members.
     
  29. Cowboy

    Cowboy Well-Known Member

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  30. Is this leagal?

    Is this leagal? Active Member

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    Clickbait.? That's the same question I was asking myself. I thought I missed something.

    Nevermind, I did.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
  31. TSConver

    TSConver Active Member Vendor

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    You can buy a firearm as a gift as long as the other person can legally own it and you are not receiving anything in compensation. If it is going across state lines and is a handgun it has to go through a FFL to change hands gift or otherwise. Longarms depends on the state, many states let you purchase longarms from other states so gifting it would be the same.

    The law is there to prevent people that cannot own a firearms from getting it through a friend and as mentioned to prevent people that do not want their name on a 4473 from getting a gun. The latter is quite common, a lot of people do not want their name on a 4473, they think there is a gun registry and that form sends their name to the ATF which currently in most states is not true. Some states do have a registry but NC does not
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
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  32. Mike V

    Mike V Lighten Up, Francis Charter Member Supporting Member

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  33. Ikarus1

    Ikarus1 Avtomat Krishna-kov

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    When NC inevitably follows VA in getting UBCs.....all this will be moot. And I won't comply so there's that.
     
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  34. cubrock

    cubrock Swell guy Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Where they get you is lying on a federal form, which isn't an issue with a private sale. There is no federal statute prohibiting a "straw purchase." There is, however, a federal statute making lying on a federal form illegal. That is what the guy in the link above was charged and convicted with. Wouldn't apply to a private sale.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
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  35. The Dude

    The Dude Happy to be here

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    Where's the "free men do free stuff" crowd on this one?

    Dude didn't state that his brother would be buying it for him.

    No different than if I couldn't afford something but my brother could so he buys it.
     
  36. BigWaylon

    BigWaylon Head philatelist Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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  37. The Dude

    The Dude Happy to be here

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    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020