Suggestions for breaking a nut loose

Flashpoint

Flashpoint

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II have a 170cc offroad buggy and I'm trying to do a mod to the CVT to increase performance. It requires replacing weights in the variator which is behind that big silver fan looking thing, ad I'm trying to get that nut off. Never being much of a mechanic myself I expect someone here has a suggestion I haven't thought of. There is less than 3.5" of clearance between that nut and the shock, and I don't want to think about having to remove the shock, I expect that would require a spring compressor and the possibility of losing fingers, lol.

So the problem is I can't figure out a way to apply enough torque to the nut. That shaft is coming directly from the engine and you can turn it with your hand. I can't figure out a way to lock it down enough to put a lot of torque on it. That fan is aluminum and I know those fins can break and then it would be out of balance, so I don't want to clamp vice grips on them, etc. I've tried holding it with a strap wrench while using a ratchet but can't make it work. I bought a right angle impact wrench with a really tiny head that would work in that space, it's only rated at 70ft/lbs though and that wouldn't break it loose. I can't find a more powerful one that will fit in that space. I'm just using standard 1/4" air hose, is it not getting enough air to deliver that 70ft/lbs? I don't think that nut should be that tight. I've seen youtube vids of people only tightening them to 20ft/lbs, but that could have been a smaller engine (50cc, etc. This style of engine is commonly used in scooters).

I'm trying to not spend hundreds of dollars to remove one nut. I cannot remove that black cover completely because the part that covers the clutch will not clear the frame, I'd have to move the damn engine and that would mean messing with the chain alignment and tension and God knows whatever else. This is why I never became a mechanic, lol. Anyone have any suggestions for breaking that nut loose? BTW it's already on a trailer if anyone wants to have a go at it I'll bring it to you. Thanks in advance.

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Impact would be best but you can remove the plug and shove rope down into the cylinder on compression stroke to stop the piston from moving up thus stopping the crank from moving. Make absolutly sure your on compression stroke so you don’t bend a valve if you try this. Just be as gental as you can with your wrench or breaker bar, don’t beat on it with a hammer.
 
So a more powerful impact wrench with an extension and swivel? I wasn't sure you could use a swivel with an impact, I guess the extension and swivel both would need to be impact rated. That's going to be a a fairly acute angle to get past that shock/spring.
 
Flashpoint said:
So a more powerful impact wrench with an extension and swivel? I wasn't sure you could use a swivel with an impact, I guess the extension and swivel both would need to be impact rated. That's going to be a a fairly acute angle to get past that shock/spring.
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Just wear safety glasses. 😉
 
Take the spark plug out and push a length of rope on the cylinder, leaving some sticking out. Roll the engine over, till it stops. Then remove the nut.
Flashpoint said:
II have a 170cc offroad buggy and I'm trying to do a mod to the CVT to increase performance. It requires replacing weights in the variator which is behind that big silver fan looking thing, ad I'm trying to get that nut off. Never being much of a mechanic myself I expect someone here has a suggestion I haven't thought of. There is less than 3.5" of clearance between that nut and the shock, and I don't want to think about having to remove the shock, I expect that would require a spring compressor and the possibility of losing fingers, lol.

So the problem is I can't figure out a way to apply enough torque to the nut. That shaft is coming directly from the engine and you can turn it with your hand. I can't figure out a way to lock it down enough to put a lot of torque on it. That fan is aluminum and I know those fins can break and then it would be out of balance, so I don't want to clamp vice grips on them, etc. I've tried holding it with a strap wrench while using a ratchet but can't make it work. I bought a right angle impact wrench with a really tiny head that would work in that space, it's only rated at 70ft/lbs though and that wouldn't break it loose. I can't find a more powerful one that will fit in that space. I'm just using standard 1/4" air hose, is it not getting enough air to deliver that 70ft/lbs? I don't think that nut should be that tight. I've seen youtube vids of people only tightening them to 20ft/lbs, but that could have been a smaller engine (50cc, etc. This style of engine is commonly used in scooters).

I'm trying to not spend hundreds of dollars to remove one nut. I cannot remove that black cover completely because the part that covers the clutch will not clear the frame, I'd have to move the damn engine and that would mean messing with the chain alignment and tension and God knows whatever else. This is why I never became a mechanic, lol. Anyone have any suggestions for breaking that nut loose? BTW it's already on a trailer if anyone wants to have a go at it I'll bring it to you. Thanks in advance.

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Yup. The shock isn’t going to come apart as long as you leave the nit on top of the shaft. Just unbolt the whole thing and use a normal impact on the target nut.
 
noway2 said:
You say it spins. Can you put the vehicle in gear to keep it from spinning?
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There are actually two transmissions. The CVT that I'm working on now that incudes a centrifugal clutch, and then a forward/neutral/reverse between that and the wheels. So even though it is in forward "gear" now, the centrifugal clutch is not engaged.
 
What @45/70fan said. A battery powered half inch drive impact with an extension, and a swivel socket if necessary, should do the trick.

Those battery powered impacts have a crap ton more torque than the air driven impacts.
 
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Qball said:
What @45/70fan said. A battery powered half inch drive impact with an extension, and a swivel socket if necessary, should do the trick.

Those battery powered impacts have a crap ton more torque than the air driven impacts.
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Battery is more expensive, is the 1/4" hose I'm using enough to supply a ~400ft/lb impact wrench? If not then maybe battery is worth it.
 
Flashpoint said:
Battery is more expensive, is the 1/4" hose I'm using enough to supply a ~400ft/lb impact wrench? If not then maybe battery is worth it.
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Maybe. I actually run 3/8 hose and fittings on all my tools. I ran a torque test with my actual tools on 1/4<> 3/8. I have one 3/4 impact that's rated at 1800 ftlbs and with 1/4 hose, could only get 850 ftlbs.

I would think the 1/4 fittings would negate the 3/8 hose.
 
Flashpoint said:
If not then maybe battery is worth it.
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It IS worth it.
I have an air impact and used it for various things on the car, then I had this hankering for a battery powered 1/2" unit.
I went Ryobi because that's what I had already. It was a hundred bucks, if I remember right, maybe a hair more, and came with a charger and 4AH battery too.
I bought it because I wanted it, now I cant imagine NOT having one. I use it almost weekly. Take it to the junkyard every trip and it comes in handy so much. Actually just used it Friday.
Yeah, look into a battery powered, they're great and offer a lot of power.
 
I’d like to add, air impacts very greatly in performance, a cheep Chinese knock off isn’t going to run like an Ingersoll Rand 2135/2235 or a Astro Pneumatic Thor.

I’ll be getting an electric soon but I love my IR guns.
 
An impact and a strap wrench to stop it from spinning
I would use a longer extension for the socket to allow you to use a full size impact wrench. Do not use a swivel socket or extension unless you absolutely need to - an extension and socket will transfer the most force on the nut
 
Impact wrench with an extension that gets the gun beyond the shock..not a torque tube.
Don’t use a swivel.
A strap wrench on the flange -not the vanes may help.

if the gun, extension, and socket are not straight on the nut you’ll have to move the shock.
 
either get the shock out of the way so you can get an impact on it, or use a nice long breaker bar (which would be cheaper to buy than an impact)
 
Flashpoint said:
Battery is more expensive, is the 1/4" hose I'm using enough to supply a ~400ft/lb impact wrench? If not then maybe battery is worth it.
Click to expand...
If you’re coming towards HP, I’ve got a 110v impact you can borrow.
 
Diablos said:
either get the shock out of the way so you can get an impact on it, or use a nice long breaker bar (which would be cheaper to buy than an impact)
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No way a breaker bar would in that space, and would still not be able to hold that fan stationary. An impact is the only way I think.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone! I've got an impact extension and swivel on the way and am taking back the air 70ft/lb impact wrench for a battery 350ft/lb impact wrench. I didn't have one to begin with but everybody needs one, right? :)

When I get back to this I'll probably try the extension and swivel first and if that doesn't work I'll remove the shock and assuming one of those strategies work will post the results. And the results of the mod too, I'm hoping all this will be worth it!
 
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^^^^^

I was about to suggest exactly the same thing!
 
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If the nut is really on there - i would use a strap wrench , otherwise you have a high likelihood or breaking the fins- those are aluminum and break easier than one would expect - ask me how I know this
If you are in the eastern part of the state let me know - I have tools
You might be dealing with some type of thread locker - apply a little heat to the nut ( note emphasis on a little )
 
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Yes it looks like there is some thread locker And heat will most likely help,

but make sure it is cool before trying to remove the nut because the aluminum will expand and increase the force on the nut.
 
I have a 3/8 drive 12 volt Milwaukee impact about ten minutes down the road from you. It’s supposed to be good for 250ft lbs. If I can lend a hand somehow shoot me a pm and we can try to work something out.
 
Flashpoint said:
Thanks for the replies everyone! I've got an impact extension and swivel on the way and am taking back the air 70ft/lb impact wrench for a battery 350ft/lb impact wrench. I didn't have one to begin with but everybody needs one, right? :)

When I get back to this I'll probably try the extension and swivel first and if that doesn't work I'll remove the shock and assuming one of those strategies work will post the results. And the results of the mod too, I'm hoping all this will be worth it!
Click to expand...
Which wrench did you decide on?
 
My new impact wrench, extensions, and swivel arrived yesterday evening. Charged it up, put on a headlamp and headed out to the barn in the dark to see if it would do the trick and it made short work of it. Didn't have to remove the shock. I hope to have time this evening to finish the mod and take it for a spin. Thanks for all the expert help!

I'll post back re. the purpose and results of the mod if anyone is interested.
 
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