Suppressing an AK
- Thread starter rbell2915
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I used a 30-cal rod on my AK when I was checking it for use with my 30-cal suppressor. There was an old thread here about purchasing rods to use for checking alignment from McMaster-Carr. That is what I used for the rods that I purchased.
Yes I had to use a thread adapter to go from metric to US threads.
Yes I had to use a thread adapter to go from metric to US threads.
not cheap, but worth it. Don’t freak out if it’s moderately non-concentric. If the rod is touching the end cap then don’t send. If there’s space between the rod and endcap it should be fine.
avoid crush washers. Many AK muzzle devices will index off the flat of the muzzle. One nice perk about left hand threads is the suppressor will tighten in opposite direction (assuming it’s standard RH direction), so there’s no chance of the muzzle device unscrewing with the can when removing. During removal of the can the muzzle device is always tightening. Similar to the reverse thread systems like dead air xeno or the OSS system. However if going with double LH mounts then I’d make sure the muzzle device has wrench Flats otherwise they’ll come off together at some point.
ive never needed thread adapters since there are many nice options for 13x1LH nowadays. The JMac customs muzzle devices are some of the nicest but my dead air flash hiders have been fine as well.
these reardon brakes look similar to the Q ones. how are you mounting it to the Lahar? It looks like aero either goes direct thread or their QD system?
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rbell2915
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Thanks. Planning on taking out the direct thread adapter and putting in an Atlas adapter to use the single port brake. The Lahar takes 1-3/8x24 adapters.
I'm kind of retarded so how do I know it'll all work before I invest the funds? Or is there a way to make it concentric if it doesn't work? Does the muzzle devices still torque down properly with that retaining nub in the way?
@rbell2915
As one who has spent $ figuring out suppressor mounts and rifle setups, I’m going to provide comments specific to your mounting question followed by my general findings with suppressing different rifles. I’m not speaking as an expert but one who does have experience. i’m sure others will disagree on various points and that’s fine:
specifics
The Lahar appears to use standard 1.375x24 threads for the mount. If you’re set on suppressing the AK and the rifle has 14x1LH threads, then you‘re going to need a mounting system that is compatible with a 14x1 LH muzzle device. I can save you some time and $$ and recommend the keymo mounting system. It is excellent especially for beginners. It’s what I use on my AK. Unfortunately it will require you purchasing a keymo mount like the dead air DA428. JMac and dead air offer 14x1LH muzzle devices that use keymo mounting system, such as below.
www.jmac-customs.com
I’m not familiar with the reardon muzzle devices but from looking at their website, it’s just a Q plan b mounting system a la taper lock. I’m not as much of fan since they rely exclusively on the taper (no secondary locking system). However it should work for your application. If you’re unsure about specific parts, call Reardon and let them help.
With regards to muzzle device on an AK, it won’t use the locking tab. The muzzle device will tighten before it reaches the front sight post. I would strongly suggest using a muzzle device that doesn’t require clocking. A generic flash hider is best. If it’s a brake that requires timing it’s far more complicated process.
general comments
when i started playing with suppressors, i initially focused on the suppressor and mounting system then slowly learned it’s more about the rifle and the gas system than anything else. A well tuned gas system is everything. Unfortunately 99% of rifles on the market are optimized for unsuppressed use.
The rifles that benefit the most from suppression are the ones where all the sound comes from the muzzle. In other words the single source of sound can be trapped in a can. Thus the best hosts, by far, are bolt actions or other manual actions. My 223 bolt actions are stupid quiet even with short cans. My best example is my Ruger American predator .223 Remington which has a 22 inch barrel and wears a YHM turbo K. All one hears is the sonic crack.
Suppressing autoloading rifles is tricky. There are two primary goals: 1) maintain reliability and 2) achieve maximum sound suppression. Both can be challenging.
Reliability
When suppressed, basically all auto loading rifles will be terribly overgassed. They’ll stay reliable for a while, but the violent extraction is hard on parts especially the bolt and extractor. Gas rings will wear out fast. Magazines will get fouled with unburnt carbon and start sticking. What looked reliable after 300 rounds may actually burn through parts and need new gas rings every 1000 rounds. It’s quite common.
Sound suppression
All autoloaders will have port-pop (sound from the chamber unlocking while the suppressor is still pressurized) as well as sounds from the action. Anything to quiet the action will help. Then the key, if i can impress one thing here, is that the longer the action stays closed the better. Most folks achieve this by using an adjustable gas block, which works but can introduce some complexity to the rifle. The ultimate solution is to just move the gas system further away from the chamber. The downside here is the rifle won’t run unsuppressed as it will need the suppressor‘s extra dwell time to ensure cycling.
The solution that I have found, which I am sure could be criticized, is to take a 20 in AR barrel with standard rifle length gas system, then cut it to 16”, re-thread and then use a direct thread suppressor. This setup is very lightweight, cycles perfectly and is as quiet as a 16” AR will ever get. The downside is that it’s on the edge of reliability without the suppressor. Criterion sells their hybrid AR 16” barrel with a rifle length gas, which has a larger gas hole and is reliable without suppressor under like 95% of conditions.
One of the finest plug-and-play semi auto rifles for suppression are from primary weapons systems (PWS). Their rifles are tremendous quality and value with very reliable long stroke piston system. The 3 position gas block is excellent and accommodates any suppressor.
With regards to AKs, they’re lousy suppressor hosts. Yes tons of people with disagree and that‘s fine. The problem is that they create so much sound other than the muzzle. the action is loud. The piston itself makes tremendous noise due to high pressure gas escaping. Adding a suppressor makes all this worse. Sure it’s quieter than unsuppressed, but still painfully loud especially for the shooter. The KNS precision adjustable gas piston is a decent solution, but still very limited by the rifle.
If you’re just getting into suppressors, I would really suggest suppressing a bolt action rifle (223, 308, 6.5, whatever) and anything rimfire (pistol, rifle). Those are the easiest to suppress and most beneficial.
As one who has spent $ figuring out suppressor mounts and rifle setups, I’m going to provide comments specific to your mounting question followed by my general findings with suppressing different rifles. I’m not speaking as an expert but one who does have experience. i’m sure others will disagree on various points and that’s fine:
specifics
The Lahar appears to use standard 1.375x24 threads for the mount. If you’re set on suppressing the AK and the rifle has 14x1LH threads, then you‘re going to need a mounting system that is compatible with a 14x1 LH muzzle device. I can save you some time and $$ and recommend the keymo mounting system. It is excellent especially for beginners. It’s what I use on my AK. Unfortunately it will require you purchasing a keymo mount like the dead air DA428. JMac and dead air offer 14x1LH muzzle devices that use keymo mounting system, such as below.
GFH 14-1LH Face KeyMount (KeyMicro)
www.jmac-customs.com
I’m not familiar with the reardon muzzle devices but from looking at their website, it’s just a Q plan b mounting system a la taper lock. I’m not as much of fan since they rely exclusively on the taper (no secondary locking system). However it should work for your application. If you’re unsure about specific parts, call Reardon and let them help.
With regards to muzzle device on an AK, it won’t use the locking tab. The muzzle device will tighten before it reaches the front sight post. I would strongly suggest using a muzzle device that doesn’t require clocking. A generic flash hider is best. If it’s a brake that requires timing it’s far more complicated process.
general comments
when i started playing with suppressors, i initially focused on the suppressor and mounting system then slowly learned it’s more about the rifle and the gas system than anything else. A well tuned gas system is everything. Unfortunately 99% of rifles on the market are optimized for unsuppressed use.
The rifles that benefit the most from suppression are the ones where all the sound comes from the muzzle. In other words the single source of sound can be trapped in a can. Thus the best hosts, by far, are bolt actions or other manual actions. My 223 bolt actions are stupid quiet even with short cans. My best example is my Ruger American predator .223 Remington which has a 22 inch barrel and wears a YHM turbo K. All one hears is the sonic crack.
Suppressing autoloading rifles is tricky. There are two primary goals: 1) maintain reliability and 2) achieve maximum sound suppression. Both can be challenging.
Reliability
When suppressed, basically all auto loading rifles will be terribly overgassed. They’ll stay reliable for a while, but the violent extraction is hard on parts especially the bolt and extractor. Gas rings will wear out fast. Magazines will get fouled with unburnt carbon and start sticking. What looked reliable after 300 rounds may actually burn through parts and need new gas rings every 1000 rounds. It’s quite common.
Sound suppression
All autoloaders will have port-pop (sound from the chamber unlocking while the suppressor is still pressurized) as well as sounds from the action. Anything to quiet the action will help. Then the key, if i can impress one thing here, is that the longer the action stays closed the better. Most folks achieve this by using an adjustable gas block, which works but can introduce some complexity to the rifle. The ultimate solution is to just move the gas system further away from the chamber. The downside here is the rifle won’t run unsuppressed as it will need the suppressor‘s extra dwell time to ensure cycling.
The solution that I have found, which I am sure could be criticized, is to take a 20 in AR barrel with standard rifle length gas system, then cut it to 16”, re-thread and then use a direct thread suppressor. This setup is very lightweight, cycles perfectly and is as quiet as a 16” AR will ever get. The downside is that it’s on the edge of reliability without the suppressor. Criterion sells their hybrid AR 16” barrel with a rifle length gas, which has a larger gas hole and is reliable without suppressor under like 95% of conditions.
One of the finest plug-and-play semi auto rifles for suppression are from primary weapons systems (PWS). Their rifles are tremendous quality and value with very reliable long stroke piston system. The 3 position gas block is excellent and accommodates any suppressor.
With regards to AKs, they’re lousy suppressor hosts. Yes tons of people with disagree and that‘s fine. The problem is that they create so much sound other than the muzzle. the action is loud. The piston itself makes tremendous noise due to high pressure gas escaping. Adding a suppressor makes all this worse. Sure it’s quieter than unsuppressed, but still painfully loud especially for the shooter. The KNS precision adjustable gas piston is a decent solution, but still very limited by the rifle.
If you’re just getting into suppressors, I would really suggest suppressing a bolt action rifle (223, 308, 6.5, whatever) and anything rimfire (pistol, rifle). Those are the easiest to suppress and most beneficial.
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Its not really that the barrels on a lot of AK's dont have concentric threads. Most do. Its more that there is no shoulder for the silencer to back up against and straighten the suppressor with . Best to use the type of adapter that rests on the front of the threads.
Totally not put together like an AK at all but just for eye candy..
Totally not put together like an AK at all but just for eye candy..
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rbell2915
Well-Known Member
All right, brief update. I certified my Lahar on 9/20/2023 and I'm going to start harassing the ATF. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, as they say.
I still can't find any 24mm Blyats anywhere I look, so the Saiga is on hold for the time being.
In the meantime, I have a WASR and I was able to pick up a Rearden SPB in the thread pitch I need for that rifle, hopefully that arrives soon. I also have a Rearden flash hider (for another AR, this can will be pulling its weight around between a few hosts) and the Atlas adapter so I'll head over to my FFL to get that stuff installed and check the concentricity of the WASR and hopefully everything goes smoothly and I can try it out back.
I still can't find any 24mm Blyats anywhere I look, so the Saiga is on hold for the time being.
In the meantime, I have a WASR and I was able to pick up a Rearden SPB in the thread pitch I need for that rifle, hopefully that arrives soon. I also have a Rearden flash hider (for another AR, this can will be pulling its weight around between a few hosts) and the Atlas adapter so I'll head over to my FFL to get that stuff installed and check the concentricity of the WASR and hopefully everything goes smoothly and I can try it out back.
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If you are willing to drive to Jacksonville/ Richlands area - Ballistic Research and Machine is a class 3 builder and builds suppressors and machine guns. I took my AK and had them check and it removed a small portion of the barrel and cut new threads and a nice shoulder to mount a can. Prices are really reasonable
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rbell2915
Well-Known Member
Certainly, will keep that in mind as well.
I'll be posting back in this thread with the findings when the muzzle device comes in and determine where to go next if problems arise. I'm really looking forward to running the AK suppressed.
Just FYI on those threads . Setting the front sight back on a 16 1/4" barrel to rethread it is not going to leave you with much , or any thread length. The better bet is to machine the threads off the barrel and cut it to 1/2-28" which is well within the minor diameter of the original 14X1mm thread spec to give you clean bore concentric threads and it allows for better availability of muzzle devices. It also allows for a shoulder which you cant do on a 14x1mm threaded barrel.
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rbell2915
Well-Known Member
The muzzle device was all wiggly and nasty on the WASR so the dealer (Clayton Guns) is working on fixing it and making it right. Should be done by Thursday apparently. Hopefully all goes well so Thursday morning I can take the Lahar for a spin.
Still searching for the proper muzzle device for the Saiga. Allegedly they are coming in stock soon.
Still searching for the proper muzzle device for the Saiga. Allegedly they are coming in stock soon.
This is my daughter’s KP-9 with a Ballistic Research and Machine titanium suppressor.
I just installed the optic and we shot a match today - she had one overall stage win with it.
Another guy at the match also had a Can from the same company .
I just installed the optic and we shot a match today - she had one overall stage win with it.
Another guy at the match also had a Can from the same company .
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BigWaylon
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You’ve never been able to upload videos here. Gotta put it somewhere like YouTube or Imgur and then post a link.
Ok trying to post a video from my daughters YouTube. Stage was shooting a far steel plate 55-60 yards first , then finding the plates numbered 1-5 in order , “hitting” each of the plates the required number of times before engaging the far plate in between engaging the numbered ones
Things to keep in mind
1. She was shooting 115gr “supersonic” - not subs
2. She was shooting from a second story room - louder
3. Her first time shooting this optic that we zeroed “on the fly” making adjustments as the match progressed. This was fastest time of our squad and turned out to be good enough for a stage win for her
Things to keep in mind
1. She was shooting 115gr “supersonic” - not subs
2. She was shooting from a second story room - louder
3. Her first time shooting this optic that we zeroed “on the fly” making adjustments as the match progressed. This was fastest time of our squad and turned out to be good enough for a stage win for her
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Are you using a KNS piston? Because you should be.