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The devolution of school discipline

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by noway2, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. noway2

    noway2 Senior Member Charter Life Member

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    Body camera video: 6-year-old girl cries for help as Florida police arrest her at schoo: link with video

    He was fired, but not because what he did was wrong, but because he didn't follow policy by getting prior approval from a supervisor.

    Seriously, a six year old. They throw tantrums and they hit and kick. Its typical behavior of young children who haven't learned to control their emotions yet. Now we're at the point where we call the cops, cuff em, stuff, and then book them at a juvie center, mug shot and fingerprints included (per the article).

    The kid is now enrolled at a private school that refuses to have cops on duty.


     
  2. Bailey Boat

    Bailey Boat Senior Member Benefactor Supporting Member

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    Well, I'm waiting........ For someone to speak up and say they shouldn't arrest under a certain age.... If not arrest what the hell is the officer supposed to do??? It's obvious that a slap on the wrist ain't working... She assaults adults and goes to jail, seems reasonable to me....
     
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  3. Crazy Carl

    Crazy Carl seriously? Life Member

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    If someone had paddled that child's ass or smacked it in the mouth, they'd have been sued, arrested, etc. WTF are we supposed to do with an unruly brat foisted off on the school system by the parents?
     
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  4. B00ger

    B00ger Das B00G Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Except...a slap in the wrist worked fine...in fact, not even that...a calm bit of story time and the girl was fine...

    But nah, let’s just T up 6 year olds...better than just shooting them or drawing pistols on kids when they get too close.


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    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
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  5. BatteryOaksBilly

    BatteryOaksBilly A SHOOTER Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    As my old dead friend used to say.....That youngn ain't got no raisins.....Granny providing an uncontrolled life.
     
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  6. Goofyfoot2001

    Goofyfoot2001 Member Supporting Member

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    Wait so she was clam when the cops came and they still arrested her? Why were the cops not told to leave as everything was ok? Stupid.
     
  7. JohnnyTyler

    JohnnyTyler Happy to be here

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  8. chiefjason

    chiefjason Vendor and Leather Hack Vendor

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    Thanks Dr Spock. When parents demand teachers not be allowed to discipline the kids guess who will have to do it?

    I absolutely don’t agree with it. But I have a good grasp on how we got here.

    I used to tell kids and parents.

    Kids- You can listen to your parents, your teachers, cops, or prison guards. Your choice. But at some point you WILL be forced to listen to someone.

    Parents- if you don’t raise and discipline them, the government will. And that will not end well. But someone, somewhere, will discipline them. It can be a parent, teacher, cop, or prison guard. Your call. Either you can raise them or the streets and their peers will. Your call.


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  9. B00ger

    B00ger Das B00G Charter Member Supporting Member

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  10. B00ger

    B00ger Das B00G Charter Member Supporting Member

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    To put it out there...I have zero problem with restraining and cuffing a kid who is wild and swinging and is posing a danger to themselves and others. I do have a problem with cuffing a 6 year old having story time after a tantrum.


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  11. concepthomes1

    concepthomes1 When do we start? Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Are we still talking about whooping 9 yr olds for throwing snowballs?
     
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  12. B00ger

    B00ger Das B00G Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Only if it sends them to the emergency room


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  13. Tailhunter

    Tailhunter I am a Trapper Charter Member Supporting Member

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    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/b...e-arrest-her-at-school/ar-BB10mYjU?li=BBnbcA1


    “Kaia Rolle was sitting, listening to a school employee read her a story when two officers came in the room to arrest her.

    “What are those for?” the 6-year-old girl asked the Orlando police officers.

    “They’re for you,” Officer Dennis Turner said about the zip ties, before another officer tightened them around her wrists. Kaia immediately began weeping.”
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  14. Amps 13

    Amps 13 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    She assaults 3 adults and then decides she is done with her tantrum and everything is good now. Teachers can’t do a thing because of parents being losers and they will get fired. So what do we have left? Call the cops and let them handle it or let her get away with acting the fool.
    Which one do you think is the better lesson for this young girl?
     
  15. Cowboy

    Cowboy Glances can deceive

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    The officer was promptly fired as well.
     
  16. Catfish

    Catfish E Pluribus Mendacium Supporting Member

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    stupid games, stupid prizes, right?

    ...

    ..

    .

    right?
     
  17. Mike Overlay

    Mike Overlay Lacks seriousness Staff Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Kaia, a first grader at charter school, had a tantrum earlier in the day where she had kicked and punched three school employees, leading to her arrest on a charge of misdemeanor battery, according to her arrest report.

    Not only the cop, but I hope who ever called the popo on a 6 year old for being...... what for it........










    A freakin 6 year old
     
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  18. Matt.Cross

    Matt.Cross Well-Known Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Yeah, there's almost an endless stream of failure in this story....
     
  19. BASIL

    BASIL Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    And if that were my little girl, being fired would be the least of his worries.
     
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  20. noway2

    noway2 Senior Member Charter Life Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2020
  21. noway2

    noway2 Senior Member Charter Life Member

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    Do you seriously think a six year old is going to understand assault? She’s six. She’s going to throw tantrums and kick, hit, and scream. An adult, especially one trained in elementary education, should be able to handle it and there should be protocols in place for doing so properly (meaning they don’t get fired). Seriously, let’s throw little kids in jail for misbehaving. No wonder this country is going down the damned toilet.
     
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  22. Cowboy

    Cowboy Glances can deceive

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    The number of parents that seek IVC's on kids under 10 would tell you they won't do it themselves.
     
  23. Amps 13

    Amps 13 Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Maybe assault is a strong word and I agree that their are trained teachers in that matter to try and hold a kid down but I do know some 6 year olds who are big enough and strong enough to hurt adults. And of course we also know what will happen once the parents find out that their kid was held down. Get the lawyers!
     
  24. MacEntyre

    MacEntyre Shoot on Sight! Charter Member Supporting Member

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    I hope that little girl isn't continually subjected to this kind of treatment... else we might read about her 10 years from now, after she choots up a school!
     
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  25. HMP

    HMP Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Dude, I get the kid screwing up and there SHOULD be SOME sort of punishment...but for cops to be involved???? Ridiculous.
    And bragging of arresting 7 year olds?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
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  26. Friday

    Friday Polite-Knock raid Charter Member Supporting Member

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    I chalk this one up to fate intervenes with those that provide destiny a reason for them to come together.
    A brat with an attitude and a cop with a scared-straight approach to brats.
    Hand...meet glove.
     
  27. JimB

    JimB Picking it up slowly. Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Don’t know enough about the history, maybe this kid acts out like this every day or several times a day and there is no other way to get them out of the classroom. 6 year olds are neither angels nor devils, but they should be reasonably controllable.
     
  28. chiefjason

    chiefjason Vendor and Leather Hack Vendor

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    Well, that's pretty much what my job was. I won't say we were perfect. But the kids that came to us were lucky, whether they knew it or not. Because if you think Govco can raise your kids better than you on the whole, you are a fool. Over 6 years I worked with a handful of kids that we recommended stay with us through High School. And most of those were for reasons of their own behavior or the community we were sending them back too. It was a very small minority of kids that I ever felt were better off with us than with family. You have to be pretty bad off to benefit from a complete break from your family.

    And FWIW, our parents were required to participate in the program as well. We did training, individual, group, and family counseling with the student and family. Most of those parents can be taught better. They were just never taught in the first place. Some can't, and I've dealt with that special kind of human trash as well. But most that are seeking help for their kids are in such a bind that you can work with them.
     
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  29. premise

    premise outwardly solipsistic Life Member

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    Dang. I didn't even get arrested for stabbing a classmate in the face with a mechanical pencil or stomping another one's testicles so hard he had to have surgery.
     
  30. Matt.Cross

    Matt.Cross Well-Known Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    I'm a little disturbed by how much I find myself agreeing with you lately. Cut it out!
     
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  31. HMP

    HMP Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Blame some NC law makers for less punishment in schools.
    At this point, legally, a kid could come in spit in my face, kick me in the nads, and then haymaker me...but if they're under 18 then they wont get much of a punishment at all. Well, not with law enforcement.
    There isnt much the law can/will do anymore.

    That said, Im thankful I got a strong principal, one who will not allow nonsense in his school. One who will get rid of the bad ones and make the place better.
    But more needs to happen with our laws
     
  32. HMP

    HMP Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Change your mind and then you wont agree.
    Be pro-beating up kids
     
  33. B00ger

    B00ger Das B00G Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Pro-beating kids, shootings dogs, all the good stuff that makes a man a man.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  34. HMP

    HMP Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Oh, and you better not like the emergency hockey rule! Only men who cry during Hallmark movies like that rule
     
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  35. Pink_Vapor

    Pink_Vapor Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Make sure we as parents/grandparents are involved in their lives, and do all we can to home/private school them.
     
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  36. chiefjason

    chiefjason Vendor and Leather Hack Vendor

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    Cornell University stopped teaching physical intervention in Therapeutic Crisis Intervention the last years I was certified in it. Which was about 2001. They were moving strictly to non physical intervention. Which is difficult to explain over the net. But it's a workable solution IF you have enough staff to pull it off. Which very few places do. And we did not either.

    I was certified in TCI and was certified under the actual developers from Cornell and from our training staff. Yes, there are ways to deal with that behavior. But like I said above, it's fallen out of favor and likely not even being trained now.


    We have taken most of the behavior management tools out of the hands of teachers. And we have replaced them with nothing. And we have passed the responsibility up the chain to administration who has passed the buck on to LE. I also doubt that we are teaching a lot of the still possible behavioral management tools to teachers anymore. Based on the conversations I have had with principles on this subject, it does not feel like they are either taught or pushed as solutions. Most classrooms also don't have the staff to break off and deal with behavior easily and the staff they do have don't have the time to do it. Done right and in any manner that would currently protect you from being fired, it's labor and time intensive. I think what needs to happen with our laws is to re establish the authority of the teachers and admins in the school to do things to counter these behaviors before involving LE.

    But as a teacher friend of mine told me. "Jason, I'll never have an issue with kids like you raised. And the kids that I have issues with don't have parents that understand their kids need discipline in school." Basically, he could paddle my kids for being stupid and I would understand. But he will never have to do that. And if he paddles the kids that need it, their parents will never understand why their little angel needed spanking.
     
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  37. Matt.Cross

    Matt.Cross Well-Known Member Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Changing my mind isn't done easily, I'll be the first to admit it.
     
  38. slow is slow

    slow is slow Busy dry firing..... Supporting Member

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    I don't think calling the law or arresting the 6 year old was the right thing to do, but I think most here are being too lenient in saying normal 6 year olds act like this. I've got a 4 year old and a 7 year old, who would never and have never acted like this. My kids aren't alone in that manner, as I'm always around others' kids who are just as behaved. I know this is a problem that comes from home, and a lack of discipline there. At six, you know that hitting adults is wrong, but you've made the decision to act on those impulses and you've been allowed to get away with that behavior before. We went through similar situations of mis-behavior with children in my daughter's first grade class. She spent most of her time watching the teacher try to get control of the other kids whose parents didn't care enough to teach them how to act. We pulled her out mid way through that year and have been homeschooling for two years now. It was the best thing we've ever done for our children. The publicly funded daycare they pass off as education in most places is a joke. Administrators have been stripped of most of the effective tools to deal with these problems, and teachers are trying to educate children completely by themselves because the parents aren't invested or interested in their children's education enough to do any extra work or teaching at home. It's easier to park them in front of a television or a tablet than to be a good parent. Alright, rant over.
     
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  39. CZfool68

    CZfool68 Int'l Man of Mystery Charter Member Supporting Member

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    My kids would not have dreamed of hitting teachers or adults when they were 6. As much as I hate current lefty thinking and Marxist principles maybe population control and limits on breeding are a good idea. I’m sure little Kaia’s parent(s) are special too.
     
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  40. J R Green

    J R Green Member Charter Life Member

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    If your 6 year old doesn't know better than to kick and hit other people you aren't much of a parent.

    Teachers and the school have been hamstrung as far as discipline goes leaving no recourse but to call in the cops. And can we turn the hyperbole down about 80%,? No six year old is taken to jail.
     
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