The next leftie law waiting to get struck down

Jmoser

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2020
Messages
1,634
Location
Greater Charlotte Area
Rating - 100%
10   0   0

"Certainly the Second Amendment protects every citizen's right to own a gun. It does not require taxpayers to subsidize that right," Democratic Mayor Sam Liccardo said Monday at a news conference.
Under San Jose's proposed law, gun owners would be charged an annual $25 fee directed to a nonprofit set up to distribute funds to gun crime prevention and to victims of gun violence. The measure also would require gun owners to obtain liability insurance that would cover damage caused by their weapon.

Curious what other constitutional rights are subjected to these kinds of restrictions in San Jose? Hopefully come June SCOTUS ruling will clear a lot of this up. I expect this one wont make it past the first challenge and definitely not past the 9th Circuit. Before it gets there SCOTUS will have ruled on NYC case.
 
We need you to pay $1000 a year to speak your mind since you say mean things. We can’t have tax payers subsidizing speech that causes so many deaths! Don’t worry, we will donate these fees to a lefty loon organization that will study your speech and figure out that you really need to be paying more in yearly fees.

Oh yeah, you’ll need speech insurance to ensure that those deaths you cause can be cleaned up properly!

You terrorist, with your ”free speech”!
 
This is insane, they want us to believe that law abiding citizens who own firearms need liability coverage when the fact is the criminal element is responsible for obtaining and using firearms illegally in crimes. This is just like a pole tax for elections. We have liability coverage for drivers, that does not stop DUI/DWI and reckless driving, what makes them think the criminals will get liability coverage?

 
No reason for them not to pass it. They'll get to say they 'did something' and get some money and push legal gun ownership even further down. Then at some future date after someone gets screwed and the case makes it through the courts they'll just appeal and appeal and appeal again with zero consequences. When there is no penalty for making bad laws, what do they care?
 
gun owners would be charged an annual $25 fee directed to a nonprofit set up to distribute funds to gun crime prevention
Full stop. This has been a regressive argument for years that some how “gun owners” are responsible for “gun crime”. It’s BS. Its like saying heterosexual males are responsible for rape. It’s a non sequiter, and we shouldn’t even acknowledge the conversation.

The mistake is in giving these communists, aka “leftists” any semblance of power and playing their game instead of telling them to go sod off swampy.
 
Last edited:
I'm curious how this insurance works. Insurance for liability normally covers accidents or occurrences that were outside our control. In the case of an intentional act of defense the liability insurance will not cover the shooting. So the point of having it is to cover what exactly? And who even offers this product that has no benefit to the purchaser?

edit...
So I read the article to get some kind of an answer.

"Having liability insurance would encourage people in the 5,500 households in San Jose who legally own at least one registered gun to have gun safes, install trigger locks and take gun safety classes, Liccardo said.

The liability insurance would cover losses or damages resulting from any negligent or accidental use of the firearm, including death, injury, or property damage, according to the ordinance. If a gun is stolen or lost, the owner of the firearm would be considered liable until the theft or loss is reported to authorities."

So this is really a safe storage law backdoor. The kind of thing that the Supreme Court shot down in Heller. And interestingly, the coverage against theft or accidental use is something that's already offered by most homeowner's policies...the change with the ordinance is really the requirement to have a safe storage solution in use in the home in order for the homeowner's policy to cover a previously otherwise covered event.
 
Last edited:
the change with the ordinance is really the requirement to have a safe storage solution in use in the home in order for the homeowner's policy to cover a previously otherwise covered event.
The entire point to this is to make it more expensive to own guns and put more pebbles in the path of anyone who wants to do so. It has nothing to do with safety, crime, accidents, etc.
 
Holy crap. Reading further into the article includes this bit of uninformed puke.

"An increasing number of violent crimes nationwide are also being attributed to “ghost guns,” the untraceable firearms made from build-it-yourself kits that can be assembled in minutes."

Hahahahahah. (Gasp) HAhahahahha.

I'd love to see this "assembled in minutes" happen.
 
I'm curious how this insurance works. Insurance for liability normally covers accidents or occurrences that were outside our control. In the case of an intentional act of defense the liability insurance will not cover the shooting. So the point of having it is to cover what exactly? And who even offers this product that has no benefit to the purchaser?

edit...
So I read the article to get some kind of an answer.

"Having liability insurance would encourage people in the 5,500 households in San Jose who legally own at least one registered gun to have gun safes, install trigger locks and take gun safety classes, Liccardo said.

The liability insurance would cover losses or damages resulting from any negligent or accidental use of the firearm, including death, injury, or property damage, according to the ordinance. If a gun is stolen or lost, the owner of the firearm would be considered liable until the theft or loss is reported to authorities."

So this is really a safe storage law backdoor. The kind of thing that the Supreme Court shot down in Heller. And interestingly, the coverage against theft or accidental use is something that's already offered by most homeowner's policies...the change with the ordinance is really the requirement to have a safe storage solution in use in the home in order for the homeowner's policy to cover a previously otherwise covered event.

The ordinance also allows officers to request proof of insurance anytime they encounter a firearm owner. I don't know what the repercussions of that will be, but I'm sure it sucks.
San Jose has identified a law firm that would represent the city on the issue at no charge, mayor's spokesperson said.
This is the real reason it passed so easily.
 
The ordinance also allows officers to request proof of insurance anytime they encounter a firearm owner. I don't know what the repercussions of that will be, but I'm sure it sucks.

This is the real reason it passed so easily.
There's a law firm in Illinois that does Pro-bono work for all the progressive NE cities like Deerfield and Highland Park. I kind of feel like the law firm that does this should be forced to pay damages and lawyer's fees should they lose a case while defending something known to be unconstitutional with existing case law. That free legal work promise made the towns way more bold than they would have been otherwise.
 
I wouldn't give a rat's ass, but this crap spreads if the Marxists can get it to stick anywhere.. There's an email address at the end if you want to bend their ear.

The San Jose City Council voted by wide margins on January 25 to adopt two gun control measures not found anywhere else in the United States.
The first would require gun owners in the city to purchase liability insurance covering losses or damages related to “negligent or accidental use of the firearm,” including death and injury.
The second would further require gun owners to pay a “gun harm reduction fee” to a “designated nonprofit organization.” The City Council will set the fee and designate the nonprofit in a separate resolution. This resolution has not been introduced, but council members at the latest meeting suggested the fee could be $25 per year.
Failure to comply with either ordinance could result in fines and firearm confiscation.
Opposition to both measures has been emphatic. Gun owners, gun rights groups, and San Jose residents have called the laws unjust and wondered how levying fees on gun owners will stop violent criminals. (Homicides in San Jose were up 24% between 2019 and 2020, and even though the 2021 homicide rate dropped down to pre-existing levels, violent crime was still up 10% overall.)
“In my humble opinion, this proposed ordinance seems to punish law-abiding citizens for merely exercising one of their inalienable rights,” San Jose resident John Mancino said in an email to the council.
William Kumler, another San Jose resident, agreed. “This unconstitutional tax on lawful gun owners must be forbidden. There is no reason that citizens who lawfully own guns should be responsible for the actions of criminals who obtain guns through nefarious means,” he said.
While many of the comments sent to the council via email were not from San Jose residents, we weren’t able to find a single comment supporting either ordinance. Looking at comments received via the council’s e-comment system, 143 of the 145 messages opposed both measures outright. At the council meeting itself, an overwhelming majority of witnesses testified in opposition to the laws.
The council nonetheless voted 10-1 to impose an insurance requirement on gun owners and 8-3 to levy a fee. The council must hold one final vote to make the new regulations official, which will take place next month.
Common Sense? Gun control advocates often characterize their proposals as “common sense,” but San Jose’s new measures have been described as both unjust and impractical. Even putting legal questions aside (we’ll get to those in a minute), forcing law-abiding gun owners to pay for the actions of criminals seems like the opposite of common sense to many Americans.
Mark Oliva of the National Shooting Sports Foundation, the gun industry's trade association, likened San Jose’s new requirement to combating illegal narcotics by taxing prescription medication consumers. He also compared the fees to a poll tax.
“San Jose’s mayor and city council are conflating the lawful ownership and use of firearms with criminal actions. That’s beyond unfair,” Oliva told MeatEater. “The problem of criminal misuse of firearms must be addressed not by punishing those who abide by the law, but punishing those who break the law.”
In an editorial for the Los Angeles Times, San Jose Mayor Sam Liccardo dismissed the idea that the annual gun owner fee infringes on Second Amendment rights. Instead, he characterized gun owners as somehow being responsible for the city’s violent crime problem.
“To be sure, the Second Amendment protects the rights of citizens to own guns, but it doesn’t require the public to subsidize gun ownership,” he said. “Every day, taxpayers bear the financial burden of police officers, ambulances and trauma surgeons responding to gun violence. These direct costs of gun violence total $40 million annually for San Jose taxpayers, and $1.4 billion for taxpayers statewide.”
Of course, even if it were true that gun owners in general bear responsibility for gun crime, MeatEater’s Steven Rinella pointed out that other constitutionally protected activities cost taxpayers money.
“Protests sometimes result in violence and property destruction. They lead to lost revenue by businesses. They require expensive monitoring by police. Why should the silent, non-protesting public be asked to foot the bill for those who wish to have their voices heard?” he asked facetiously.
“Our constitutional liberties should not be bought and sold,” Rinella concluded.
As for the insurance requirement, Liccardo justified it as a way to compel gun owners to practice safe gun storage.
“Risk-adjusted premiums will encourage owners to take gun-safety courses, use gun safes, or install child-safe trigger locks to reduce the annual toll of accidental gun harm,” Liccardo said.
Reviewing comments from San Jose residents, the overarching critique is that the fees and regulations are unfair.
Eric Barloewen manages the firearms unit in a local crime laboratory in San Jose. He told the council that the “vast majority” of all gun-related crime is committed by individuals who are already prohibited from owning firearms.
“This proposed ordinance is simply an unfair tax to some of the city's population and will do nothing safety-related except drive good citizens out of our fine city of San Jose,” he said.
Is it Constitutional? Irrational laws sometimes pass legal muster, and right now it’s unclear how the courts will respond to San Jose’s new ordinances. The regulations strike many observers as unconstitutional, but courts have historically supported taxes and fees on guns in certain circumstances.
Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF), nonetheless believes the proposals are unconstitutional. “These rules have a chilling effect on gun ownership, and that’s what their intent is,” Gottlieb told MeatEater.
The Second Amendment Foundation is currently preparing a lawsuit they plan to file once the measures become law. The suit will attack the San Jose ordinances on Second Amendment grounds, but the SAF will also argue that the rules violate California’s state preemption law.
In general terms, this law prohibits local governments from enacting gun control regulations stricter than those imposed by the state. San Jose’s law is clearly stricter than anything passed so far by the state legislature, and Gottlieb said the preemption angle might be stronger than the Second Amendment angle. He doesn’t believe the legislature is likely to pass a similar law any time soon due to the expense of administering it statewide.
San Jose city lawyers will also have to deal with the fact that, as of January of 2021, no major insurance company offers separate, stand-alone gun liability coverage, according to the Insurance Information Institute. Gottlieb said that if San Jose gun owners are unable to obtain the policies required under the law, gun rights groups could file suit based on the law’s harm to gun owners.
“This is a distinct possibility. At that point, the law would surely bite the dust, period. Because then you could show proof of its harm,” Gottlieb said.
Even if insurance companies do write policies for gun owners, that could still lead to a successful Second Amendment case. If insurance companies require gun owners to lock up their firearms, for example, they could run afoul of the Supreme Court’s ruling that Americans have a right to keep “functional” guns in the home.
“The requirement that any lawful firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock makes it impossible for citizens to use arms for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional,” the court ruled in their 2008 decision, D.C. v. Heller.
Based on this ruling, Gottlieb said, an insurance policy along the lines of Liccardo’s description could well be deemed illegal.
What Now? The council must still take one more vote, and at least some council members are skeptical of the new laws. But Kevin Small of the California Rifle and Pistol Association (CRPA) is doubtful San Jose residents can convince the council to change course.
“At the last meeting, the overwhelming majority of people told their city council members not to pass this ordinance, and they passed it anyway,” Small said. He doesn’t see any reason the council will change their tune next month.
That means this issue will be decided in court. Liccardo said he “anticipates a barrage of lawsuits,” and that statement looks to be prophetic. One gun rights group filed a suit even before the laws had been finalized; Gottlieb said the Second Amendment Foundation and the Firearms Policy Coalition will file a suit; and Small said the CRPA will either file an amicus brief or a lawsuit of their own.
Gun owners in other states have reason to watch these lawsuits closely because, as Small explained, gun control laws can quickly spread.
“California and New York end up being ground zero for a lot of these laws to be tried out, and they spread like an infection across the United States if we don’t get it struck down here,” he said.
If you want to get involved, you can submit a comment to the San Jose City Council by emailing [email protected]
 
Last edited:
This has been on the communist wet dream list since forever. They are making at least one poor assumption: that if they codify this nonsense into their local ordinances people will obey. Oh, they’ll send their enforcers, right, well they too can be sent packing.
 
Last edited:
This has been on the communist wet dream list since forever. They are making at least one poor assumption: that if they codify this nonsense into their local ordinances people will obey. Oh, they’ll send their enforcers, right, well they too can be sent packing.
As Solzhenitsyn pointed out, if the citizens stand their ground against tyranny, there won't be enough committed jack boots willing to kick doors in.
"Sent packing" with this suitcase. Of course that'll never happen in CA or NY.
20220217_064553.jpg
 
Last edited:
I’m sure it’ll be expensive and the commies will get a cut. It’s for the children!
Non criminal use of a firearm is probably covered under the personal liability policy of a homeowner policy but only on the property grounds...for now.
 
Non criminal use of a firearm is probably covered under the personal liability policy of a homeowner policy but only on the property grounds...for now.
I don't think I'd rely on my homeowners policy, and I say this as someone working for a large insurance company. First off they are not going to cover your possible criminal suit. Those fees are 100% out of your own pocket and will he costly. Even if it's just legal representation for the grand jury who won't indict you cause you were justified.

There is also language in the homeowners policy excluding any intentional acts. Did you intentionally shoot that intruder who just broke down your door at 2 AM? Of course you did. You may have to sue your insurance company to force them to cover you when the intruders family sues you, again out of your pocket though you may get reimbursed later.
 
Last edited:
Plain and simple, can this be applied to any of the other enumerated rights?

If not, then it can't be applied to the 2nd.
 
“To be sure, the Second Amendment protects the rights of citizens to own guns, but it doesn’t require the public to subsidize gun ownership,”

That is a bold statement. I’m glad to see a city passing the cost of gun ownership to their employees rather than using tax money to fund firearms for LEOs 🙄
 
Is this type of insurance available yet, and how much per year?
It's part of the homeowners insurance policy. That means rates will vary based upon factors they may not publish. Things like your credit score have been used to affect rates for insurance.
Then there's discounts available for people who use safes, take safety classes, etc. My guess is this won't be terribly expensive up front, but that's really not the point. It's an end around the Supreme Court Heller ruling that safe storage laws are unconstitutional. By having the private sector demand safes be used to have your homeowners policy be in force they can again push the safe storage agenda.
 
It's part of the homeowners insurance policy. That means rates will vary based upon factors they may not publish. Things like your credit score have been used to affect rates for insurance.
Then there's discounts available for people who use safes, take safety classes, etc. My guess is this won't be terribly expensive up front, but that's really not the point. It's an end around the Supreme Court Heller ruling that safe storage laws are unconstitutional. By having the private sector demand safes be used to have your homeowners policy be in force they can again push the safe storage agenda.

I agree it's unconstitutional!

I remember when this was first talked about months ago, that no insurance policies at the time covered this.
 
I agree it's unconstitutional!

I remember when this was first talked about months ago, that no insurance policies at the time covered this.
Other factors that need to be explored is what's the effect on renters who may not normally carry a policy on their things because of the expense? Does this price them out of living in their current rented home?
What's to keep the insurance company from assessing a higher risk on gun owning households? Gun control via exorbitant pricing is a possibility. Live in a dangerous neighborhood where your place is at higher risk of burglary/home invasion? That might increase rates for the very people who need guns for home defense the most.
 
Back
Top Bottom