Thoughts on using reloaded ammo as your EDC defensive rounds?

shooter_mcgavin

shooter_mcgavin

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2021
Messages
1,707
Location
Archdale North Carolina
Rating - 100%
19   0   0
Thinking back to the kyle rittenhouse ordeal and how the prosecutors focused in on the type of ammo he used ("exploding bullets" referring to hollow points). Is it better to use factory loaded ammo so that you being a factor in the ammo used is eliminated in the case you are involved in a self defense shooting, or does it matter? If you loaded the ammo yourself (to specs, obviously within the load data of a manual), are you putting yourself in more of a bad place for prosecutors to be able to make you look worse? If this question has already been answered, please link the thread and Ill just delete this one.
 
I carry defense ammo that I had loaded sometimes. Some folks aren’t comfortable doing it and that’s fine. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer do what you are comfortable doing.

As far as your question I think all you’ll get is opinions not fact but I’m all ears and eager to hear why people don’t carry hand loaded ammo.
 
Last edited:
The thing about the Rittenhouse deal was the prosecution was trying to have it both ways. Hollow points were exploding, Ball would ice pick...so either Kyle intentionally picked the ammo that would create devastating wound with intent to kill or maim or he negligently picked ammo that would zip through his target and endanger the public at a protest.
Fortunately, Kyle was coached well. He claimed ignorance on the topic of ammo, said ammo is just ammo...and he also had a magazine that Dominic Black had loaded. That answer got a charge tossed.
 
Timfoilhat said:
The prosecutor then tells the jury you fantasized about being a cop or some nonsense.
Click to expand...
In Kyle’s case where he was acting in a manner to protect property in the beginning. Im sure that argument would be made. For the average SD shooting, I don’t believe this would be an issue.

However, like @JohnFreeman I'm in the camp that they can and will try anything. But a good shoot is a good shoot. Don’t care what ammo or weapon you use. If the shoot is questionable, then that argument may potentially impact a jury.
 
I think the argument that I chose what my local LE carried because I trusted they had done their due diligence and test on the weapon and ammunition to see what was the best for protection of the public, self protection, and what had the least likely hood of creating undue risk to innocent people not involved in the incident. Is stronger than the argument that the shooter was acting out some fantasy of being a cop. Especially if you’re a person who has had a successful career in another field. Easily argued that the shooter had no desire to be LE because they focused on becoming successful in their respective career.

But again, lawyers will try just about anything.
 
The longer I carry and shoot, the less and less I actually care about whats >in< my magazine. What matters is that I know it is reliable, know its point of aim/impact, and am confident that it will go bang when I need it to. Ball, hollow points, hand loads, lead, whatever, just make sure it works.

That said, I do use commercial ammo for carry, even when I was reloading. Just made sure to find a brand/round I am confident and carry on.

It is strictly my opinion that >if< you were in a self defense scenario and it was a sketchy call it >could< be used against you to have hand loads. But it would have to be an extremely odd case where your motives for pulling the trigger were being questioned. But even then, it would be a stretch to use it against you.
 
I have only opinions and emotions. That said, factory ammo but am working on a load for the p365 because the barrel is so short relative to the barrel length most SD ammo is designed around.
 
Average Joe said:
I think the argument that I chose what my local LE carried because I trusted they had done their due diligence and test on the weapon and ammunition to see what was the best for protection of the public, self protection, and what had the least likely hood of creating undue risk to innocent people not involved in the incident. Is stronger than the argument that the shooter was acting out some fantasy of being a cop. Especially if you’re a person who has had a successful career in another field. Easily argued that the shooter had no desire to be LE because they focused on becoming successful in their respective career.

But again, lawyers will try just about anything.
Click to expand...
It's still too many words for my liking. It just opened up a new avenue to attack. Did the defendant actually research this deatil about local LE? Or did he simply trust but not verify. That sounds like trouble to let him tug on that string.
Defendant didn' want to create undue risk to people not involved in the incident, yet he chose to walk around armed 24/7 sounds like a contradiction. Another string for the proscecution to tug on.
Like you say, lawyers will try pretty much anything.
 
I should add, if the shooter keeps his mouth shut and his lawyer keeps him off the stand all the prosecution can do is guess about why he or she selected a particular brand or style of ammunition. I guess the argument for using what the police use is that your lawyer can call an expert to confirm that the police don’t select ammo specifically because they are trying to kill people.
 
Ayoob's discussion on GSR and it's gravitas in the courtroom is compelling. I was in the "who cares" camp so I'm glad you revived this. I needed a reminder. I'll be switching out some cartridges in my rotation for Factory ammo.

why?

Because I'm toting this thing around in preparation for the worst day of my life. I don't want to give up something that would be so useful on the second worst day.
 
Load equal numbers of underpowered handloads, Bubba's pissin' hot handloads, regular strength handloads, factory ball of varying bullet weights, factory cheap hollow points, factory expensive hollow points, ammo of the wrong caliber, and ammo with smiley faces drawn on it. That way, the prosecutor will just be confused and can't tell what your motive was. :D

JK lol. But it's kind of a nothing-burger. Whether it's factory ammo or handloads, just carry what stops the threat at distances you can capably shoot within your means to acquire, practice with, and consistently hits where you aim it.
 
And to steer this further into the weeds, the ammo you don't shoot will probably come into play. Look at the ammo fort you built in the closet. When the proscecutor see x thousand rounds of ammo he's going to be delighted to throw around all kinds of slurs about us gun nuts.

Off the top of my head I have a case of RA9T, a case or 3 of HST is various weights, and a few ammo cans of random 9mm hp like Gold Dot, Lehigh, Norma. I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to hear it called out alongside whatever I did use be it a handload or factory. I don't think telling him "it was on sale" or "I planned to flip that if Obummer got re-elected" will help my case. He'll also find loading manuals and notebooks with chronograph readings written next to specific loads. Then they'll find all the completed class certificates for everything from RSO, to defensive gun use for rifle and pistol, to tac med 101. Playing ignorant won't work for some of us. We know exactly what's what.

Like @GymB said, best best is to not be on the stand and let your lawyer handle it.
 
It’s either a g
Timfoilhat said:
And to steer this further into the weeds, the ammo you don't shoot will probably come into play. Look at the ammo fort you built in the closet. When the proscecutor see x thousand rounds of ammo he's going to be delighted to throw around all kinds of slurs about us gun nuts.

Off the top of my head I have a case of RA9T, a case or 3 of HST is various weights, and a few ammo cans of random 9mm hp like Gold Dot, Lehigh, Norma. I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to hear it called out alongside whatever I did use be it a handload or factory. I don't think telling him "it was on sale" or "I planned to flip that if Obummer got re-elected" will help my case. He'll also find loading manuals and notebooks with chronograph readings written next to specific loads. Then they'll find all the completed class certificates for everything from RSO, to defensive gun use for rifle and pistol, to tac med 101. Playing ignorant won't work for some of us. We know exactly what's what.

Like @GymB said, best best is to not be on the stand and let your lawyer handle it.
Click to expand...
and probably whatever we’ve said in this forum
 
Go to the range and practice. "He was training to kill. "
Don't go to the range. "He was irresponsible for not training."
Shoot center mass to stop threat and reduce miss risk. "He could have just shot him in the leg."
Every Democrat or RINO DA is going to use anything and everything to paint a self defense case as a deliberate criminal homicide. They do not believe anyone has the right to self defense.
 
Last edited:
I think ya'll might be missing the more important point while you argue about the obvious one.

Yes of course, lawyers are gonna lawyer. They only need to convince the 12 dumbest people they could find that the dumbest thing they heard all week is legit.

But Gun Shot Residue from known "exemplar" factory ammo is gonna science.

Handloads give the lawyers something to argue about. Factory ammo takes that away from them. I had forgotten that until I re-watched the video.
 
Timfoilhat said:
And to steer this further into the weeds, the ammo you don't shoot will probably come into play. Look at the ammo fort you built in the closet. When the proscecutor see x thousand rounds of ammo he's going to be delighted to throw around all kinds of slurs about us gun nuts.

Off the top of my head I have a case of RA9T, a case or 3 of HST is various weights, and a few ammo cans of random 9mm hp like Gold Dot, Lehigh, Norma. I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to hear it called out alongside whatever I did use be it a handload or factory. I don't think telling him "it was on sale" or "I planned to flip that if Obummer got re-elected" will help my case. He'll also find loading manuals and notebooks with chronograph readings written next to specific loads. Then they'll find all the completed class certificates for everything from RSO, to defensive gun use for rifle and pistol, to tac med 101. Playing ignorant won't work for some of us. We know exactly what's what.

Like @GymB said, best best is to not be on the stand and let your lawyer handle it.
Click to expand...
Do you believe that shooting someone during an altercation at a location other than your home would create probable cause to search your home. Maybe, but I don’t see it.
 
GymB said:
Do you believe that shooting someone during an altercation at a location other than your home would create probable cause to search your home. Maybe, but I don’t see it.
Click to expand...
Good point. I forget I'm not behind enemy lines anymore after 35 years of needing to have a foid and all the infringement that went with it.
 
The question is can anybody cite a case where somebody actually got convicted of a charge based on the choice of ammo?
 
Stogies said:
The question is can anybody cite a case where somebody actually got convicted of a charge based on the choice of ammo?
Click to expand...
New Jersey vs Daniel Bias. It's in the video above, start at 4:15 Not strictly a self defense case, but Ayoob claims Bias would have been exonerated had there been factory ammo in the gun. But because the gun was loaded with handloads, GSR evidence was not admissible, and Bias went to jail.
Here's a more in-depth writeup on the Bias case

Ayoob follows that up with two cases where factory ammo was used, and therefore GSR evidence was admissible: The Zimmerman and Michael Brown cases. Zimmerman was acquitted and Wilson was not charged, based largely on GSR evidence.
 
Last edited:
Catfish said:
New Jersey vs Daniel Bias. It's in the video above, start at 4:15 Not strictly a self defense case, but Ayoob claims Bias would have been exonerated had there been factory ammo in the gun. But because the gun was loaded with handloads, GSR evidence was not admissible, and Bias went to jail.
Here's a more in-depth writeup on the Bias case

Ayoob follows that up with two cases where factory ammo was used, and therefore GSR evidence was admissible: The Zimmerman and Michael Brown cases. Zimmerman was acquitted and Wilson was not charged, based largely on GSR evidence.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link. Interesting read.
 
Timfoilhat said:
And to steer this further into the weeds, the ammo you don't shoot will probably come into play. Look at the ammo fort you built in the closet. When the proscecutor see x thousand rounds of ammo he's going to be delighted to throw around all kinds of slurs about us gun nuts.

Off the top of my head I have a case of RA9T, a case or 3 of HST is various weights, and a few ammo cans of random 9mm hp like Gold Dot, Lehigh, Norma. I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to hear it called out alongside whatever I did use be it a handload or factory. I don't think telling him "it was on sale" or "I planned to flip that if Obummer got re-elected" will help my case. He'll also find loading manuals and notebooks with chronograph readings written next to specific loads. Then they'll find all the completed class certificates for everything from RSO, to defensive gun use for rifle and pistol, to tac med 101. Playing ignorant won't work for some of us. We know exactly what's what.

Like @GymB said, best best is to not be on the stand and let your lawyer handle it.
Click to expand...
All reasons to have a great attorney with gun knowledge on speed dial.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom