US appeals court upholds California bullet stamping law

[turkeydance]

of course it's California with the Ninth Circuit....but, here goes:

Gun rights advocates had argued that manufacturers didn't have the technology to implement the stamping requirement, so the law was effectively a ban on the sale of new guns in the state. Writing for the majority, Judge M. Margaret McKeown said the inability to buy particular guns did not infringe the 2nd Amendment right to self-defense in the home. "Indeed, all of the plaintiffs admit that they are able to buy an operable handgun suitable for self-defense — just not the exact gun they want," she said.

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/w...holds-california-bullet-stamping-law-57023830

 

[Bailey Boat]

Quasi registration..... = confiscation.... gonna drive revolver prices out of SIGHT!!!

 

[NCFubar]

The article says ...

The stamping requirement — the first of its kind in the nation — requires new models of pistols to have a microscopic array of characters in two spots that identify the gun's make, model and serial number and are imprinted on the casings when the weapon is fired. The goal is to allow law enforcement to trace casings left at a crime scene to the weapons from which they were discharged.

What two spots? I can see the firing pin thing being possible but what would be the second ... the extractor or ejector? And they’d only be in semi-autos not revolvers. Also again this law really only concerns handguns purchased legally by law abiding citizens not by criminals who get their guns thru other channels.

 

[mrgoob]

The court also upheld two additional requirements. One was a chamber load indicator and the other a magazine disconnect.

 

[SPM]

A People who look to the State to limit its own power while simultaneously safeguarding their Rights and Liberty will always awaken one morning and find themselves slaves.

 

[Mightyox04]

So if I borrow dad's, or sisters gun and rob a store dad/sister gets blamed and I get away with it?

 

[NCFubar]

A People who look to the State to limit its own power while simultaneously safeguarding their Rights and Liberty will always awaken one morning and find themselves slaves.

Reagan said ...

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.

 

[georgel]

The assumption is that tracing the casing tracks back to the shooter. There's a lot more in between to interrupt that chain of evidence.

 

[doose]

What it will take to cure this is for every gun manufacturer and supplier from jiminez to ruger, from cz to smith and wesson, for the ellett brothers, and crow shooting supply... the buds gunhops of the world to refuse to do or sanctiom business in california, and now dc... the immediate result would be politicians with big win grins, but let the grass roots eventually say enough, and this crap will halt.

Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk

 

[doose]

The assumption is that tracing the casing tracks back to the shooter. There's a lot more in between to interrupt that chain of evidence.

This is not about tracing casings at crime scenes, its about end run banning new weapons.

Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk

 

[12151791]

The assumption is that tracing the casing tracks back to the shooter. There's a lot more in between to interrupt that chain of evidence.

Or a handful of casings picked up at a range and scattered at the scene of the crime.

 

[rdinatal]

Or a handful of casings picked up at a range and scattered at the scene of the crime.

So, what happens to all the evidence, ah, brass, yeah that's better... at ranges that insist that brass on the floor is theirs?

Does the now stamped brass have to be treated like Personally Identifiable Information (PII). It could be a crime to mishandle it.

 

[Jeppo]

Quasi registration..... = confiscation.... gonna drive revolver prices out of SIGHT!!!

I don't think so. I'll bet that they'll simply outlaw revolvers since they will not comply with the law.

 

[DrSideways]

Simple remedy. Buy a firing pin and maybe an extractor from NC. With cash. Or Mother-inlaw's card.

 

[rdinatal]

Simple remedy. Buy a firing pin and maybe an extractor from NC. With cash. Or Mother-inlaw's card.

I'm sure the law will be written with a penalty to modify a new pistol. If it's not then they are more idiotic than they seem to be.

 

[Diablos]

What it will take to cure this is for every gun manufacturer and supplier from jiminez to ruger, from cz to smith and wesson, for the ellett brothers, and crow shooting supply... the buds gunhops of the world to refuse to do or sanctiom business in california, and now dc... the immediate result would be politicians with big win grins, but let the grass roots eventually say enough, and this crap will halt.

Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk

Nope, it's gonna take a lot of rope

 

[willpgn]

This is not about tracing casings at crime scenes, its about end run banning new weapons.

Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk

B-I-N-G-O, Winner, winner, chicken dinner, Bullseye, and all those other sayins!

 

[shadowsbane]

So the shills in ca had did 3 studies about micro stamping all 3 said it wasn't viable. Imprints are inconsistent and easy to avoid completely.

These people doing the study were full on gun control nuts and they themselves said it wouldmt work

 

[Button Pusher]

So the shills in ca had did 3 studies about micro stamping all 3 said it wasn't viable. Imprints are inconsistent and easy to avoid completely.
These people doing the study were full on gun control nuts and they themselves said it wouldmt work

Exactly why they want this stamping requirement, to waste money on a useless program.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

The article says ...

What two spots? I can see the firing pin thing being possible but what would be the second ... the extractor or ejector? And they’d only be in semi-autos not revolvers. Also again this law really only concerns handguns purchased legally by law abiding citizens not by criminals who get their guns thru other channels.

Likely on the firing chamber walls, where the expanding gasses would force the cartridge outward to forcebly conform to the chamber walls, embossing something onto the brass cartridge.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

So if I borrow dad's, or sisters gun and rob a store dad/sister gets blamed and I get away with it?

Or use a revolver?

Or put a bag over your gun hand?

Or pick up the casings?

Or contaminate the site with other casings?

Or remove/eradicate the marking devices?

Or use a stolen gun?

Or get rid of the stolen gun afterwards?

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

So, what happens to all the evidence, ah, brass, yeah that's better... at ranges that insist that brass on the floor is theirs?

Does the now stamped brass have to be treated like Personally Identifiable Information (PII). It could be a crime to mishandle it.

An OUTSTANDING point!

The response to this, of course, will be to make it illegal for you to not collect and properly dispose of all fired brass...at authorized collection facilities.

And no reloading, either, as that will be illegal, too.

 

[NCFubar]

Are they going to make a law you have to keep the gun clean and free of carbon and such build up that could hinder a clear imprint? An area with a raised pattern would likely hold buildup more quickly than a smoothed surface.

 

[CZfool68]

Well once CA is allowed to ban all firearms they will probably enjoy the same type of safety and freedom as places like Chicago and Mexico. And the quality of life there will force people with the ability to flee.

 

[Sleazy P. Martini]

Criminals checklist:

1. Go to local range and pick up stamped brass from other shooters
2. Commit crime and sprinkle stamped cases
3. ???
4. Profit

 

[georgel]

Writing for the majority, Judge M. Margaret McKeown said the inability to buy particular guns did not infringe the 2nd Amendment right to self-defense in the home.

Silly girl, the 2nd Amendment isn't about self-defense in the home.

 

[fishgutzy]

The court also upheld two additional requirements. One was a chamber load indicator and the other a magazine disconnect.

MA has that. Took my brother-in-law more time to take down his MA compliant Shield 40 than it did for me to clean my P320 and put it back together and start on a second pistol.
It requires a special tool to release a catch inside the mag well.

 

[fishgutzy]

Well once CA is allowed to ban all firearms they will probably enjoy the same type of safety and freedom as places like Chicago and Mexico. And the quality of life there will force people with the ability to flee.

There is a virtual ban on carrying outside the home. <200 people out of 10 million in LA is a ban. <1% of the state population has "permission" to carry outside the home.

 

[fishgutzy]

Likely on the firing chamber walls, where the expanding gasses would force the cartridge outward to forcibly conform to the chamber walls, embossing something onto the brass cartridge.

That will last for a bout 5 or 6 rounds before it too worn to mark. This will be great for gun smith too because it will increase the failure rate of extractors.

 

[fishgutzy]

Are they going to make a law you have to keep the gun clean and free of carbon and such build up that could hinder a clear imprint? An area with a raised pattern would likely hold buildup more quickly than a smoothed surface.

They will wear out quickly.

 

[11B CIB]

I'm sure the law will be written with a penalty to modify a new pistol. If it's not then they are more idiotic than they seem to be.

Just like suppressors and SBRs and felons who carry guns (and hundreds of other things) now: this is a non issue for law breakers.

It only impacts the law abiding populous as it always has. As @DLam said, this is about banning new weapons and overall control

 

[georgel]

I wonder how well the technology will work with aluminum or steel casings.

 

[GymB]

The economy of CA is big, like really big, and I presume that they believe that if they require this that manufacturers will find a way to comply rather than sacrifice the market. This is really no different than the state taking a leadership position on auto emissions.

Will it work, I don’t know, but I doubt it. If they put in a carrot, like saying they’ll allow carry of any such gun, then someone might find the market attractive.

As for implementing the technology, I can’t think of a solution that will work reliably. Maybe adding a stamping pin above the firing pin to hit the case head? Defeated by sanding or removing said stamping pin, but compliant at sale.

 

[rdinatal]

Oh, and then there will be a "CA-Police Only" version due to reliability issues.

 

[Jeppo]

Why not simply require ammo retailers to stamp the buyer's SSN on each case before leaving the store?

 

[MacEntyre]

As for implementing the technology, I can’t think of a solution that will work reliably. Maybe adding a stamping pin above the firing pin to hit the case head? Defeated by sanding or removing said stamping pin, but compliant at sale.

Stamp the case head on chambering.

 

[CZfool68]

The economy of CA is big, like really big, and I presume that they believe that if they require this that manufacturers will find a way to comply rather than sacrifice the market. This is really no different than the state taking a leadership position on auto emissions.

Will it work, I don’t know, but I doubt it. If they put in a carrot, like saying they’ll allow carry of any such gun, then someone might find the market attractive.

As for implementing the technology, I can’t think of a solution that will work reliably. Maybe adding a stamping pin above the firing pin to hit the case head? Defeated by sanding or removing said stamping pin, but compliant at sale.

I suspect that CA auto market and leverage is a heck of a lot bigger than the CA bullet market. At some point companies will do the math and some will decide it isn't worth it. Then CA will have less options and pay more. Which will probably put a little bit more strain on the local and State PD's budgets. So they'll raise taxes. More.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

The economy of CA is big, like really big, and I presume that they believe that if they require this that manufacturers will find a way to comply rather than sacrifice the market. This is really no different than the state taking a leadership position on auto emissions.

Yeah, but apparently they're hell-bent on cutting all firearms and ammunition business out of the state EXCEPT for law enforcement. And THEY certainly don't need this, now, do they?

*snark*

Oh...and liberal body guards and whatnot.

 

[Goofyfoot2001]

Wanted to comment but I was banned from ABC for making some sense or educating people on the truth at some point.

 

[SPM]

Back when our ancestors were facing a rising tide of official actions against their Rights as Englishmen, they formed several associations, committees, and organizations throughout what was then the colonies of British North America.

The focus of the majority of these official actions was aimed squarely at Boston and the Massachusetts Bay colony, and had little or no direct effects on the Backcountry of the Carolinas, the ports of Wilmington or Charleston, he urban Williamsburg in Virginia, or the city of Savannah in Georgia. There were no troops in home in Pennsylvania, nor the port of Philadelphia shut down to trade.

And yet, they recognized that a threat to Liberty anywhere in the colonies was a direct threat to Liberty everywhere in the colonies.

Massachusetts' charter was evicerated - local self governance destroyed, general warrants issued - all kinds of things.

Is it really different than that which is happening in the Republic today?

One of the things done in response was a non-importation pact - essentially a boycott on steroids that around 30% of the population refused to do business with or purchase goods imported through Great Britain.

Could gun owners not do the same?

Refuse to buy firearms' from manufacturers that sell firearms, training, ammunition and adcesaccess to any agency operating in California.

Gun owners pressure their local FFLs to stop selling the products of manufacturers who do business with the State of California (or New York, or Massachusetts, etc) while their legislation makes overt and purposeful violations of the inalienable Rights of the People.

Would it suck?

Yeah, it probably would for a while. You Glocksuckers would probably have to stop buying Austrian plastic for a while and get a 1911 like both God and our Lord and Savior JMB intended.

But in all seriousness - we could do this, if we only had the will. Start it here in the Carolinas. State our intentions publicly, inform FFLs and manufacturers. Take a solemn Oath or Pledge to see it through, and have the werewithalll and courage to hold ourselves to it.

Then spread it to Virginia.

Georgia.

Florida, Maryland.

They did it with horses and printing presses and soldiers in the streets, in some cases.

We have instant communication, the ability to meet without leaving the house.

We, the People have far more power than most realize - if only we would weild it.