Used Car Market

Average Joe said:
Over the past several weeks I’ve been in the market for a used truck. I know this isn’t a good time to purchase a vehicle, but I’m afraid my frugalness of buying a good used vehicle and driving it till the tires fall off has put me in a predicament. Really wasn’t in the market, but after talking to several people in the business, I learned they all believe it is only going to get worse before it gets better. Many predicting late 2023 early 2024 before the market turns the curve and starts to get better. Not wanting to chance needing something immediately, I decided to start my search now. So who has the best deals on a 2016 or newer, Ford F-150, crew cab, 4wheel drive, with towing package? And any advice on the 2.7 V6?


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I’ve got a 2017 Honda Fit with 35k on the clock, loads of OEM accessories and upgrades. 40mpg. The manual does mention not towing anything with it. Sounds like exactly what you need.
 
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Your NIssan with 275K on it could easily last for another year unless you know of something failing.
Right now is the worst time to buy a new or used car.
It's kind of like when generic ARs were going for $1200+ in 2015-2016.
When the bubble burst and some tried to get their money back, they were offered $400.

It will be a great time to buy when the chips are back in stock and plentiful. Why our automobile industry is still
on the teat of China for some important electrical components is beyond my pay grade. It is stupid.

Once the chips come back, all of these sitting cars and trucks will get ready for sale.... all at once.
This will drive the car whores to run super cheap ads for new vehicles and this will mean that a ton of used
vehicles will come in real cheap. You could easily pay $15,000 for a vehicle today (way over value) and in a year,
when the new car market is flooded, it will be worth $4000.

So, you may feel OK about paying today's prices for a used vehicle but unless you drive it until it's death, you will
take a severe pounding in a year or two if you want to off load it.

If you can wait a year, wait a year. It could save you $5,000-$10,000+.
 
fieldgrade said:
@Average Joe Ford is offering 1.9% for 60 months, plus $1500 trade assist on new 2021 F150’s.

My 2017 is absolutely my favorite vehicle of all time.
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Does the small print indicate “retail price” for the discount and low interest rate?

Chevy was offering a similar deal. Read the small print, applies to “retail” prices
 
Mike Overlay said:
Does the small print indicate “retail price” for the discount and low interest rate?

Chevy was offering a similar deal. Read the small print, applies to “retail” prices
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I just bought a new Chevy a few weeks ago. It had 3700 on it as a service loaner, but sold as a new vehicle, and qualified for all incentives. Bought "back of invoice”.

To add: When I bought my 2017 Ford in early 2018 it also qualified for all incentives and it was $10k below sticker. We never had that fine print when I was in the business with a GM dealer and had $3000 cash back or 0%, but that was a long time ago.
 
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Mike Overlay said:
Does the small print indicate “retail price” for the discount and low interest rate?

Chevy was offering a similar deal. Read the small print, applies to “retail” prices
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Retail price is what it is sold to a retail buyer (you and me). Retail price does not mean MSRP. I'm sure the disclaimer is for wholesale buyers or other resellers.
 
They really must be hurting for used cars. Five months ago the dealer offered me $27,500 for my car when I thought about trading it in. Today the cash offer was $32,586 from the used car manager when I brought it in for service. And I wasn't even asking them to look at it since I wasn't even thinking about buying a new car right now.
 
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Jeppo said:
I learned something that could eventually be useful. As we all know, it’s difficult (if not impossible) to negotiate car prices these days. It’s certainly a seller’s market. So, this advice may only become helpful when (IF????) things ever return to normal.

Ford offers a discount to their shareholders. You must own at least 100 shares and hold them for at least six months. If you qualify, you can apply for a discount code which a dealer can apply to a new vehicle purchase. You might ask why you would want to invest in Ford when that investment could go down in value. At this moment, 100 shares of F would cost $1,313 (the shares are having a good day, up 3%). Ford will give you up to 2 codes per year and they’re valid for a year.

Somehow, I managed to find a dealer willing to sell a vehicle “at factory sticker” (The next closest dealer is adding $3,500 to similar vehicles). They applied my discount code and took $2,321 off the sticker price. That was enough to cover the taxes and fees so the OTD price was actually only $66 over the sticker.

Forgetting appreciation in the Ford shares, I consider that a decent investment. I suspect few dealers are willing to make this kinda deal today. But, I found one.

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Tagged for future.
 
SPST said:
Be careful buying anything used right now. The flooded cars and trucks from the hurricane in Louisiana will be hitting the market soon
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Also from NYC, NJ, TX and VA will be coming soon.
 
Jim1392 said:
They really must be hurting for used cars. Five months ago the dealer offered me $27,500 for my car when I thought about trading it in. Today the cash offer was $32,586 from the used car manager when I brought it in for service. And I wasn't even asking them to look at it since I wasn't even thinking about buying a new car right now.
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The BMW dealer sends me messages and offers every week to buy the wifes M3 and my M550ix. The guys turning in their leases are bypassing the dealer and selling them to Carvana and Carmax paying off the lease and pocketing THOUSANDs!
 
SPST said:
Be careful buying anything used right now. The flooded cars and trucks from the hurricane in Louisiana will be hitting the market soon
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Just reposting this. It's about to be a big problem for the Carolinas.
 
RugerP89DC said:
Just reposting this. It's about to be a big problem for the Carolinas.
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It is about to become a problem everywhere. Flooding is happening at an alarming rate. Tons of these cars are going to get dumped back into the used car market. Some will be properly marked as flood/salvage but we all know many will slip through and people will get stuck with a swamp car or truck.
 
wvsig said:
The BMW dealer sends me messages and offers every week to buy the wifes M3 and my M550ix. The guys turning in their leases are bypassing the dealer and selling them to Carvana and Carmax paying off the lease and pocketing THOUSANDs!
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My wife took her 2012 Sequoia in for service last week at the Toyota dealer. While there they made an offer to purchase it. $2500 less than we paid for it in 2014, 7 years ago!
 
Carolinatlc said:
My wife took her 2012 Sequoia in for service last week at the Toyota dealer. While there they made an offer to purchase it. $2500 less than we paid for it in 2014, 7 years ago!
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The numbers are insane. I would sell but I love the cars and would have to purchase something else to replace them. Plus the wife hates the look of the current M3.
 
I need a box truck. Put it off too long. Penske used 14’ 120k truck went from 14,000 to $22,000. And now the milage before selling is increasing. I’m going to run these two into the ground until prices stabilize even if its two years.
 
I’m going to keep looking. I’ve actually ran across a couple really nice trucks at not just good prices, but very reasonable prices. The problem, you got to keep your face buried on the interwebz and be quick on the draw to pull the trigger. When I called about one truck, guy told me someone basically bought it sight unseen and he was on the way to meet him at the bank. Another one was posted Saturday evening at closing time. Called left a message, got a return call first thing Monday morning. Asked the salesman to take a couple pictures of the inside, as the ad didn’t really show the rear passenger area well. As it might save me I an hour drive there. He called me back and said when he was going out to get the pictures another salesman was with someone at the truck and they bought it immediately when they found out someone else was interested. Guess it’s like buying guns and ammo now. You just have to be patient and be willing to walk away from the deal when it’s not right, even if you really want them. I was mainly looking to see if anyone knew of some dealership that was treating people decent even in this crazy sellers market.
 
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wvsig said:
Yeah but they are talking 6-12 months not years. I personally would not buy a car right now unless I had to. The market is not going to get worse. It can only get better IMHO. The chip shortage will end and people will start buying new, turning in their leases and the used car market will stabilize. Why push into the market this close to an all time high unless you have to?
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I owe you an apology. Just realized I had typed 2023 and 2024 before things would get better. I meant to say late 2022 or in 2023.
 
6 months ago a buddy of mine bought a new ram 2500 4wd diesel with the dreaded 68rfe trans (against my urging) “Someone” tuned and deleted it for him and the trans held up till a few weeks ago and started crapping out on him while out of town towing his camper. Finally listened to me and traded it in on a new f250 platinum diesel and Ford gave him $12k more than he paid for the dodge, knowing the transmission was shot and that they’d have to buy and reinstall all the emissions equipment to sell. Absolutely nuts.
 
Pogue said:
6 months ago a buddy of mine bought a new ram 2500 4wd diesel with the dreaded 68rfe trans (against my urging) “Someone” tuned and deleted it for him and the trans held up till a few weeks ago and started crapping out on him while out of town towing his camper. Finally listened to me and traded it in on a new f250 platinum diesel and Ford gave him $12k more than he paid for the dodge, knowing the transmission was shot and that they’d have to buy and reinstall all the emissions equipment to sell. Absolutely nuts.
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Why the hell are you slapping emissions equipment back on?
 
Notacop said:
Why the hell are you slapping emissions equipment back on?
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Won’t pass an NC inspection legitimately without the emissions equipment on it. And it has to be able to do that for a dealer to sell it.
 
Get Off My Lawn said:
I HOPE you're right, and it happens soon. I need a truck, have cash in hand for the right deal, and

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Just buy your truck and try to be happy. The timeline on market recovery is going to be very long and you're only hurting yourself hoping to save a few dollars.
 
GoWolfpack said:
Just buy your truck and try to be happy. The timeline on market recovery is going to be very long and you're only hurting yourself hoping to save a few dollars.
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I drive a company vehicle & won’t take a loan, or pull from the emergency fund savings unless I have to. So I can currently wait for the cash price to meet what I have in hand.
 
Get Off My Lawn said:
I drive a company vehicle & won’t take a loan, or pull from the emergency fund savings unless I have to. So I can currently wait for the cash price to meet what I have in hand.
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Just remember in the long game, inflation marches on. We haven’t experienced *serious* inflation in a l-o-n-g time till this year, but with the expansion of the supply of currency I don’t know that it’s reasonable to expect vehicle prices to shrink THAT much. Hopefully there will be a correction in prices, but if it takes too long, inflation will catch up with it if we experience like we did in the 80s.

My employer at the time, and our two competitors GE and Westinghouse, had yearly 8% across the board increases, and that went on for the decade I worked for them.
 
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fieldgrade said:
Just remember in the long game, inflation marches on. We haven’t experienced *serious8 inflation in a l-o-n-g time till this year, but with the expansion of the supply of currency I don’t know that it’s reasonable to expect vehicle prices to shrink THAT much. Hopefully there will be a correction in prices, but if it takes too long, inflation will catch up with it if we experience like we did in the 80s.

My employer at the time, and our two competitors GE and Westinghouse, had yearly 8% across the board increases, and that went on for the decade I worked for them.
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Hm. Maybe it's time to employ the Inverse Dollar Cost Averaging plan: buy another car (new or used) every 6 mos ~ 1 year; over time, the depreciation of individual value will average out to an acceptable rate/time.

o_O That's only a little bit funny. And I really should be looking at the used vehicle market and making a plan for my next and/or back-up vehicle.

But the '02 F150 keeps truckin' along...
 
Get Off My Lawn said:
I drive a company vehicle & won’t take a loan, or pull from the emergency fund savings unless I have to. So I can currently wait for the cash price to meet what I have in hand.
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Then buy whatever you can afford now. Waiting around hoping prices will drop isn't getting you anything.

Edited: I know this comes out harsh, but I have zero confidence that the market will return to it's previous state any time in the next decade. The market for trucks and SUVs was not good before, but literally everything is loco crazy now and showing no signs of correcting or so far even softening. Prices are not coming down in the foreseeable. I wish I had bought five years ago.
 
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The auto industry has paced inflation. A new car today is approaching an AVERAGE of $40,000. Not long ago it was $25,000. Yes, advance technology and safety features has had a big hand in the price increases but inflation has also played a big part.

The current auto pricing is akin to our ammo shortage/prices. Is 9mm ammo going to stay at $30/100 when it was $20/100 not long ago? When Obummer was in office and we had a similar surge in guns and ammo prices, didn't the prices return to pre-Obummer pricing? Didn't the $1200 basic AR fall back to $400? The same will happen to the new car & truck prices when the chips become available.

When chips come back in volume, all of these 2021 cars and trucks will hit the market all at once. Prices will fall fast and competition will bring great deals. Is it worth it to pay $70,000 for that $50,000 truck when they all have that "Market Adjustment" added on along with $1500 bedliners and $1000 "Appearance Packages" tossed in? When the market floods with new vehicles, trade in values will plummet. That $20,000 trade will now be worth $14,000. The market will then flood with used vehicles and the cost to buy one will drop dramatically.

When will this happen? I bet it will be soon. I've read where some automakers are setting up chip manufacturing companies already in existence. Maybe they made iPhone chips before and are changing over to automotive but I believe the chip market is loosening up. Will it be by the year end clearance sales? I don't know because that is so soon but all of the 2021 units sitting on lots and off site storage need new homes. They are already made and just waiting for chips. When they hit the market, prices will plummet.

If you need a car or truck right now then you have no choice but to pay the premium prices. Auto dealers are selling a lot less units now but their increased profit per unit makes up for the slow volume. If you can wait it out, prices will fall back to "normal" and even below the norm until the old units are gone. The 2022 units will probably show the inflation of this year but the 2021 units need to go and go fast. They will be "giving" them away when the time comes.
 
larryh1108 said:
The auto industry has paced inflation. A new car today is approaching an AVERAGE of $40,000. Not long ago it was $25,000. Yes, advance technology and safety features has had a big hand in the price increases but inflation has also played a big part.

The current auto pricing is akin to our ammo shortage/prices. Is 9mm ammo going to stay at $30/100 when it was $20/100 not long ago? When Obummer was in office and we had a similar surge in guns and ammo prices, didn't the prices return to pre-Obummer pricing? Didn't the $1200 basic AR fall back to $400? The same will happen to the new car & truck prices when the chips become available.

When chips come back in volume, all of these 2021 cars and trucks will hit the market all at once. Prices will fall fast and competition will bring great deals. Is it worth it to pay $70,000 for that $50,000 truck when they all have that "Market Adjustment" added on along with $1500 bedliners and $1000 "Appearance Packages" tossed in? When the market floods with new vehicles, trade in values will plummet. That $20,000 trade will now be worth $14,000. The market will then flood with used vehicles and the cost to buy one will drop dramatically.

When will this happen? I bet it will be soon. I've read where some automakers are setting up chip manufacturing companies already in existence. Maybe they made iPhone chips before and are changing over to automotive but I believe the chip market is loosening up. Will it be by the year end clearance sales? I don't know because that is so soon but all of the 2021 units sitting on lots and off site storage need new homes. They are already made and just waiting for chips. When they hit the market, prices will plummet.

If you need a car or truck right now then you have no choice but to pay the premium prices. Auto dealers are selling a lot less units now but their increased profit per unit makes up for the slow volume. If you can wait it out, prices will fall back to "normal" and even below the norm until the old units are gone. The 2022 units will probably show the inflation of this year but the 2021 units need to go and go fast. They will be "giving" them away when the time comes.
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I wish I felt your optimism, but I really don't. Even before this the used market was so fouled up that it made more sense in a lot of cases to buy new.
 
fieldgrade said:
Just remember in the long game, inflation marches on. We haven’t experienced *serious* inflation in a l-o-n-g time till this year, but with the expansion of the supply of currency I don’t know that it’s reasonable to expect vehicle prices to shrink THAT much. Hopefully there will be a correction in prices, but if it takes too long, inflation will catch up with it if we experience like we did in the 80s.

My employer at the time, and our two competitors GE and Westinghouse, had yearly 8% across the board increases, and that went on for the decade I worked for them.
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Speaking of Company vehicles, Monday before last my current Truck is a 2019 GMC standard cab with the V8. Lifters started raising hell so we took it back to the dealer for a warranty issue. 58k but falls into power train. So I asked the warehouse manager what truck he wanted me to take, he said he didn’t care so I took his 2018 Tacoma extend cab. I had choices of about 4-5 different trucks. Including some with the duramax diesel. After keeping the Tacoma for 2 weeks I told the ware manager I going to keep the Tacoma😎 It’s 4cyl doesn’t get anymore gas mileage than the V8 GMC. But I swear I just like it better.
 
Mike Overlay said:
Does the small print indicate “retail price” for the discount and low interest rate?

Chevy was offering a similar deal. Read the small print, applies to “retail” prices
Click to expand...

GoWolfpack said:
He said legitimately.
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I am glad I drive less than 20 miles a day.Even with that I bought a basic transportation car that runs on 87 to daily drive. The rest of my fleet runs on 93 and gets considerably less mpg.
The wife's 08 Avalon gets 100 miles a day and we will drive it till the wheels fall off.
I just bought a 96 S10 from a customer with 117k miles since I didn't have a truck anymore.Yes it's ugly and needs a few small repairs but will go forever.
Now my backup has a backup so I am set for a while whether I keep my latest project car or not.

Didn't mean to quote you guys.
 
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nhusa said:
When we got my wife her new Chrysler Town and Country I was ready to pay cash but got a great deal by financing part of it. We made two payments and paid it off. The finance company was pissed.
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The loan companies that are related to the manufacturer sometimes offer additional rebates if you finance thru them, If you go thru a bank or credit union you don't get the finance rebate. It is usually $500 but can go as high as $1500+. So, the lenders plan on earning back the rebated amount plus plus and when you pay it off early they lose money. Oh well! They should have minimums of amount and length if they want to cover their arses.
 
Dang, I'm glad I got my '99 Taurus wagon and Sable sedan in 1999, ten months old from Hertz Car Sales, I got two cars for what folks paid for just one. $11,6000 for the Sable and $12,400 for the wagon. Still drive them daily, 296K on the Taurus and 264K on the Sable.
 
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