Video: man with knife closes distance in the blink of an eye

Multiple discussions with this one...

No man's land. As the presenter points out, you either have to stay back far enough to improve your reactionary gap or crowd the other guy's. In other words, get close enough to jam the guy up from drawing and (you) physically gaining control of the situation. Most people don't have the confidence to do the latter. Within 10' it's not a gunfight, it's a fight. I know, Tueller says 21ft, but that's not absolute. You will have to get physical. There is literally not enough time to draw a gun. Even if you do, you're going to be locked in a physical struggle and have difficulty getting the gun to bear. People don't believe it until you demonstrate, FoF. It's all theory until you're grappling for a gun. Everybody thinks they're fast enough, but they're not. And it's humbling when you learn it. Fortunately, there are methods around the problem.

A couple of side notes...

Her asking him to hand her his knife? That was wrong on multiple levels. Keep their hands away from their weapons!

They discussed the detail of the suspect not having a weapon in his hands prior to the attack. But, he did, a pen.
Just sayin"

For those that watched the analysis concerning "neurologically divergent" people, specifically autism, it's a tough call. LE today roll up hard and often use intimidation as a tactic, because scum people they deal with have just gotten that difficult. But, that has the reverse effect on autism, because it creates a reactionary response of resistance due to excessive stimulation. So, in effect the LEO precipitates the situation.

I have signs like this on my door... (Yeah, I think about myself too.;))
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But, if the LEO seems goes easy, they are perceived as soft by some perps and it can go downhill from there. Personally, when I deal with strangers, say people coming coming on my property, I start soft, but sternly and go from there. We can play it soft, or we can play it hard. I'm being polite right now.

I do wish more LE were better trained to recognize traits of autism. We had an incident where one of my sons bascially walked out of the school due to an event that distracted staff. An all alert was called and and LEO spotted him out on the sidewalk by the road. The officer turned on lights and siren, pulled up beside him and tried to approach while yelling commands. Fortunately, a staffer saw it and yelled at the officer to stop before my son bolted. They told the officer to get back in his car and turn off the lights and siren to deescalate the situation as the staffer got to my son and brought him back in.
 
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We have demonstrated this many times at Battery Oaks and I'm sure it's still being demonstrated. At the starting beep of the timer, an old fat guy (me) would run to the timer 21 feet away. It's amazing how fast it can be done by an old fellow. Deduct 2 or 3 seconds for a young and in shape youth. This is the time that you need to beat to draw and fire at the threat. You'd better be quick.
 
Geezer said:
We have demonstrated this many times at Battery Oaks and I'm sure it's still being demonstrated. At the starting beep of the timer, an old fat guy (me) would run to the timer 21 feet away. It's amazing how fast it can be done by an old fellow. Deduct 2 or 3 seconds for a young and in shape youth. This is the time that you need to beat to draw and fire at the threat. You'd better be quick.
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heh. my left knee tries to bend backwards sometimes, and just gives out other times.
I generally refrain from trying to be quick in order to be upright.
 
"Personally, when I deal with strangers, say people coming coming on my property, I start soft, but sternly and go from there. We can play it soft, or we can play it hard. I'm being polite right now."

Be Polite. Be Professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet. Words to live by.
 
Btw; the “21 foot rule” was developed years ago as a rough average. It’s since been proven it’s closer to 28 feet as a rough average on a much larger group of test subjects. Additionally, current training gurus have proven it takes a trained shooter waiting on a threat to present approx .75 seconds to just recognize the threat, the rest of the OODA just adds time. In other words, if you are within the range they can cover in .75 seconds, you physically cannot react fast enough to counter, even if you’re braced and ready. Georgel calls it right; either move close enough to jam and hope it’s not a knife, or extend your distance. Intermediate range is the dead zone, literally. My mantra is “we don’t run out of ammo, we run out of time and distance”.

Virtra is a great training resource, I can’t recommend them highly enough.
 
Geezer said:
We have demonstrated this many times at Battery Oaks and I'm sure it's still being demonstrated. At the starting beep of the timer, an old fat guy (me) would run to the timer 21 feet away. It's amazing how fast it can be done by an old fellow. Deduct 2 or 3 seconds for a young and in shape youth. This is the time that you need to beat to draw and fire at the threat. You'd better be quick.
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My first real experience with this was with Jack Furr of Gunsite. We did live fire. We faced a target and at the sound of the buzzer you were to put 2 rounds on target as fast as you could. At the same buzzer, Jack would start 21ft at an angle behind you and attempt to run tap you on the shoulder before you fired. I never got a round off before he hit my shoulder or it was simultaneous. With other trainers we used Simunitions and AirSoft and went with the opponent charging the student with a plastic knife. That upped the adrenaline a lot for both parties.
We did it to demonstrate, not how FAST you had to draw, but to demonstrate NOT to stand there and draw. Because, these were ideal times from open holsters at 21ft. The real world is MUCH closer and more complex for the draw. Movement and some degree of physical activity is required. It completely changes your perception of "safe" distance.
BUT, also realize, they can't react to YOU in that timeframe either. Just sayin'
 
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Backing up like the cop in the video gets you stabbed and often down on the ground. Moving laterally, opposite the weapon hand of the attacker buys you time and distance and makes the attacker react to you. But she made another mistake placing herself between between two cars, and had no options.
 
jimmyjames8 said:
"Personally, when I deal with strangers, say people coming coming on my property, I start soft, but sternly and go from there. We can play it soft, or we can play it hard. I'm being polite right now."

Be Polite. Be Professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet. Words to live by.
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Lots of wrong in this video. A lot great comments upstream. So I’m going to repeat them. I’ll just add, anytime a knife is involved at those distances be prepared to be cut or stabbed. That doesn’t mean you lose and die. Just the hard reality that most do not possess the skills needed to perceive the threat, react to the threat, and successful neutralize the threat. Before they are injured. So finish the fight and be prepared to give self aid after the fight is over.
 
Average Joe said:
Lots of wrong in this video. A lot great comments upstream. So I’m going to repeat them. I’ll just add, anytime a knife is involved at those distances be prepared to be cut or stabbed. That doesn’t mean you lose and die. Just the hard reality that most do not possess the skills needed to perceive the threat, react to the threat, and successful neutralize the threat. Before they are injured. So finish the fight and be prepared to give self aid after the fight is over.
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This ^^^ x 1000
 
Chuckman said:
Situations like this is how center axis relock became a thing (whether it's a useful or valid thing, I have no idea).

As soon as someone starts moving, so should you: angles, movement, communication, shooting. Learning how to interrupt the OODA is essential.
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I still practice CAR; it’s a tool within your system, not a standalone like a lot of folks used it. It died when the founder died; shame.
 
Catfish said:
Backing up like the cop in the video gets you stabbed and often down on the ground. Moving laterally, opposite the weapon hand of the attacker buys you time and distance and makes the attacker react to you. But she made another mistake placing herself between between two cars, and had no options.
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I've tried to get this through to people for years about backing up in a fight. You can't run fast, look behind you, and stay on your feet in a situation like that. And spot on about getting yourself between two cars and limiting how you can move. I made a comment about fighting between two cars in a martial arts thread a couple weeks ago, and how being between two parked cars changes how you fight, and what works and what may not work too well, but we had a guy who was pretty sure his Jiu Jitsu training would negate an attacker. I don't think he was thinking about an attack like this with a blade. Yes, your Jits will help you close the distance, and yeah, you may be able to choke him out standing, but if you don't control the blade/gun/what have you, they can dole out a bad day to you really quickly while you're trying your Jiu Jitsu brah, lol. Like Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth, lol. Or stabbed, shot, etc.
 
Stick Man said:
I've tried to get this through to people for years about backing up in a fight. You can't run fast, look behind you, and stay on your feet in a situation like that. And spot on about getting yourself between two cars and limiting how you can move. I made a comment about fighting between two cars in a martial arts thread a couple weeks ago, and how being between two parked cars changes how you fight, and what works and what may not work too well, but we had a guy who was pretty sure his Jiu Jitsu training would negate an attacker. I don't think he was thinking about an attack like this with a blade. Yes, your Jits will help you close the distance, and yeah, you may be able to choke him out standing, but if you don't control the blade/gun/what have you, they can dole out a bad day to you really quickly while you're trying your Jiu Jitsu brah, lol. Like Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth, lol. Or stabbed, shot, etc.
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And that's assuming his buddy isn't sneaking up behind you.

Chuckman said:
Situations like this is how center axis relock became a thing (whether it's a useful or valid thing, I have no idea).

As soon as someone starts moving, so should you: angles, movement, communication, shooting. Learning how to interrupt the OODA is essential.
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Not familiar with Center Axis Relock, but I learned a lot about the mechanics/dynamics of close quarters conflict in knife fighting concepts. (It's all very similar, really, just different weapons.) Line or direction of force, target focus and commitment to attack. It's kind of the physical side of the OODA loop. Once the opponent Orients and initiates an Act, they are committed to that action and that direction, both physically and mentally. This is where OODA plays and the advantage/disadvantage is counted in half seconds. (Which is longer than you think.)
 
Stick Man said:
I've tried to get this through to people for years about backing up in a fight. You can't run fast, look behind you, and stay on your feet in a situation like that. And spot on about getting yourself between two cars and limiting how you can move. I made a comment about fighting between two cars in a martial arts thread a couple weeks ago, and how being between two parked cars changes how you fight, and what works and what may not work too well, but we had a guy who was pretty sure his Jiu Jitsu training would negate an attacker. I don't think he was thinking about an attack like this with a blade. Yes, your Jits will help you close the distance, and yeah, you may be able to choke him out standing, but if you don't control the blade/gun/what have you, they can dole out a bad day to you really quickly while you're trying your Jiu Jitsu brah, lol. Like Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth, lol. Or stabbed, shot, etc.
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LOL
 
MacEntyre said:
If she hadn't fallen down, she would have been in the line of fire... again, between two cars, not good.
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i got the feeling her partner was watching it unfold and was probably relieved when she hit the ground. I know that's how i'd have felt if i was him.
 
While everybody views being between the cars as a negative, tactically, sometimes you don't have a choice. But, you can also consider the positives and how you might leverage the situation to YOUR favor, especially if your opponent(s) are not tactically aware. I'll go back to an obstacle to protect my 6.

The space between the cars was a fatal funnel for the perp.
Having cars on both sides reduces your immediate threat vectors. (Only coming from front or back. Or left or right if you turn.)
 
barf said:
She’s a moron. She knew he had a knife and rolled up within a few feet of him without her weapon drawn. Lucky her partner was there.
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That’s the part I couldn’t understand. She knew he had a knife and didnt Have her gun out along with asking him to hand her the knife? She was asking to be killed. Can’t believe they put her back on duty
 
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