whole house generators - part deaux

fieldgrade

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I started a thread on this in 2019 planning to have a 22KW Generac unit installed. The actual quotes came in 30% higher than the Generac “estimator” at their website at the time. And surprisingly, the wife wasn’t having it, even after going through no power for days in the summer heat after hurricane Fran when she was nine months pregnant ( years ago) and also 10 days of freezing house after an ice storm (also years ago).

I had sold a loud-as-heck Troybuilt generator when I sold my last house because I only used it to run the sump pump as necessary which I no longer have, so I bought a Honda inverter generator and a window unit A/C just as a fall back plan last summer to run the fridge and keep one room of the house cool in the event of tropical storm “inconvenience”. They are sitting unopened and NIB, unused in the garage.

So anyway, off topic, I have been shopping another motorcycle, (while still having the first one), and last night she said “Why don’t you buy that generator if you are dying to spend your money?” BINGO! So I’m thinking, both sons have households of their own now within twenty minutes of here, and I like being able to be the “safe haven" for the fam and grand baby should the need ever arise. And I ain’t getting younger.

I sent an email to the Generac guy to see how slammed they are this season, and if you can even get one with all the supply chain issues everyone is having. I was going to wait till after hurricane season, but as usual, Generac has a promotion going, so I figured I’d ask.

Anybody else bought one this year? Experiences thus far?
 
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My experience is a couple years old, but call Tarheel Generator in Siler City. It was a good experience and if I had to do it over I'd do it again. At the time I did mine it was roughly 5 months from estimate to install and 4 months from contract sign to install. At that time it was a shortage of electricians so the installation was the issue. I can't imagine that's any better now AND you have supply chain issues. Good luck. Treat it like an NFA purchase. Write the check and try to forget about it.
 
I have a Generac 22kw at the store that's 11 yrs old, has only needed 1 small repair. We got a 20kw for the house 2 yrs ago, loving it.
No more pushing the portable out of the basement to hook up cords, etc..
Very reliable, I can barely hear it running. My brother and sister both got theirs after seeing my setup. They did a beautiful job.
I highly recommend Carolina Generators, call Brad, he'll fix you up.
 
Tagged for interest, though I'm the only clan member who seems concerned. I was just ranting to the bride minutes ago about our woeful unpreparedness, and generators in specific.
 
Last one I put in with another electrical company who actually sold the generator was a 6 month wait on the Generac. There are no units from big box stores. The wait is long. Get on someones list now because its possible be 6- 9 months out. What would be good is to get the place it will go and the main gas line ready and pour a pad or bed of stone.

If you find the transfer switch box without the generator available it would be nice to get most of the rerouting of wires and conduit completed.
 
RR said:
At that time it was a shortage of electricians so the installation was the issue. I can't imagine that's any better now AND you have supply chain issues.
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I’ve mentioned before when I was managing a bundle of small commercial properties, finding electricians was usually my least frequent trade need, but also the most difficult to find. I’m sure the new home construction boom of the past several years exacerbates this tremendously.

InvisibleOne said:
I can barely hear it running.
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I’m in a small newish neighborhood with seventy houses built on a circular road with 8-9 generators scattered around, so when I walk, I hear everybody's every once in awhile because they all have a schedule where they run for 10-20 minutes a week during the day. They are either Briggs and Stratton (engines at least), or Generac. The Generacs are noticeably quieter as I have to be close to the house to hear it. The Briggs I can hear running from several houses away. It’s not outright objectionable like my Troybuilt was, but louder than the Generac.

I can’t speak to reliability. The Briggs at the house behind me was spitting and sputtering last summer and I let the owner know who I think either didn’t hear it, or understand that it sounded like it was starving for natural gas. He had the service people come out and the proper adjustments remedied that problem.
 
FWIW, when we were shopping we were told by multiple contractors (Tarheel included) that they'd shifted away from Generac to Briggs and Stratton. The story was consistent from one to the other in that they found themselves doing much more work on Generac lately. To the tune of so busy doing warranty work the installations were getting further behind.

Just what I was told but it was by multiple independent contractors who aren't beholden to either brand.
 
BlackGun said:
Last one I put in with another electrical company who actually sold the generator was a 6 month wait on the Generac. There are no units from big box stores. The wait is long. Get on someones list now because its possible be 6- 9 months out. What would be good is to get the place it will go and the main gas line ready and pour a pad or bed of stone.

If you find the transfer switch box without the generator available it would be nice to get most of the rerouting of wires and conduit completed.
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Thanks. A level bed of tamped crush 'n run is already in place from two summers ago six feet feet from the gas regulator next to the house, and also the electric service, and the panel is in the garage, just on the other side of the electric service. All set as far as I can prepare for. I figured there would be wait times. Wondering if I’d do better to wait till winter to kick this project off when demand slacks off. Not sure why Generac is having to run promotions this time of year in this supply chain climate.
 
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LeeMajors said:
Don't overlook Cummins and Onan

The gf parents have a Cummins at a house in WVA. Something like 2400 hrs on it and only ever needed the usual service.
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2400 hours. That’s 100 days of continuous use. Does their power go down that often? Or is it an “off grid” kind of thing? Just wondering.
 
Tagged for interest

I'm curious about the gas bill if you rely on it for an extended period. I've heard they are more expensive to run than you think.
Anyone have feedback on the cost to run one of the natural gas versions?
 
Hah, that's the other funny thing. We had ours installed in May 2019 (correction: June 2019). In 2018 we had the remnants of Hurricane Michael knock out our power for 4 days in Oct. Followed by two winter storms that took us down for 3 and 2 days respectively. Since June of 2019, we lost power once. For five hours. Because a car hit a pole between us and Graham. I think I spent 12k to ensure our power would never again go out.
 
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Precision Seeker said:
Tagged for interest

I'm curious about the gas bill if you rely on it for an extended period. I've heard they are more expensive to run than you think.
Anyone have feedback on the cost to run one of the natural gas versions?
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Mine is connected to an underground propane tank so I can't speak to NG. I think @Qball posted some info on that in another generator thread sometime back.
 
One more angle to consider.... I bought the one for the house 2 years ago, but I had been thinking about it for several years before that.
2 years ago we saw widespread power outages in western states, then last year in Texas.
MANY people have had the same thought. Generac has been selling LOTS of units.

IF I had bought $10,000 worth of Generac stock 3 years ago (at $55/share), it would be worth $72,785 today!
Shoulda, coulda, woulda!
 
Are you in your forever home now? Do you have enough sunlight exposure to consider the newer type solar? If so the overall long term cost of it versus a natural gas or LP generator is getting damn attractive. Not to mention newer solar powercells function as a backup system about the same except way quieter. You also could get rid of your monthly power bill. Just another idea to consider …
 
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fieldgrade said:
2400 hours. That’s 100 days of continuous use. Does their power go down that often? Or is it an “off grid” kind of thing? Just wondering.
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It's backwoods WVA the power is out quite a bit. But it a vacation home too. Iirc the unit is 8 years old.
 
I have a 20kw Kohler, installed six years ago and I have no complaints. The closest Generac dealer (at least at the time) was 1.5 hrs away, his quote was a lot higher. Kohler guy was and still is a lot closer, I've had no problems except mud daubers clogging the vents to the gas reg diaphragm twice, it's properly screened now,and I think minor re-design on the new Kohlers addressed apparently common Southern-install problem. The 31hp (I think) engine sounds like a big lawn tractor engine, it's not very loud but a Generac is probably quieter because that's one of Generac's bragging points.

If the march of the starving zombies heads out into the countryside they WILL be listening for generators because that likely means cold food storage and a working well.
 
RR said:
My experience is a couple years old, but call Tarheel Generator in Siler City. It was a good experience and if I had to do it over I'd do it again. At the time I did mine it was roughly 5 months from estimate to install and 4 months from contract sign to install. At that time it was a shortage of electricians so the installation was the issue. I can't imagine that's any better now AND you have supply chain issues. Good luck. Treat it like an NFA purchase. Write the check and try to forget about it.
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RR said:
FWIW, when we were shopping we were told by multiple contractors (Tarheel included) that they'd shifted away from Generac to Briggs and Stratton. The story was consistent from one to the other in that they found themselves doing much more work on Generac lately. To the tune of so busy doing warranty work the installations were getting further behind.

Just what I was told but it was by multiple independent contractors who aren't beholden to either brand.
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RR said:
Mine is connected to an underground propane tank so I can't speak to NG. I think @Qball posted some info on that in another generator thread sometime back.
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I had one installed from Tarheel in Siler City earlier this year. We went with a 20kw Briggs and Stratton for the same reasons cited and a better warranty. Mine is connected to a 500 gallon in ground propane tank that is on a monthly fill rotation and we have not had a long outage since we have had it. We had to wait almost 4 months from order until it was finished. Tarheel put ours on a pre formed concrete pad. We did have to get an HVAC company to tie our propane to the generator. No regrets here thus far.
 
Infamous1 said:
I had one installed from Tarheel in Siler City earlier this year. We went with a 20kw Briggs and Stratton for the same reasons cited and a better warranty. Mine is connected to a 500 gallon in ground propane tank that is on a monthly fill rotation and we have not had a long outage since we have had it. We had to wait almost 4 months from order until it was finished. Tarheel put ours on a pre formed concrete pad. We did have to get an HVAC company to tie our propane to the generator. No regrets here thus far.
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Same here except the people who installed the propane tank did the connection for us as well. We were an all electric setup prior so the tank was part of our installation process. And ours is 325 gallons.
 
I have a 30kw Generac industrial with a 2.3l Ford 4 cylinder motor that runs on LPG. I’ll be pouring the pad and burying conduit this winter when the day job slows down. It was at an FM site we decommissioned. With the muffler set up it has, you can barely hear it purr >50’ away from it.

30kw will run my house and the shop at 55%!! Old girl won’t even break a sweat….


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
NCFubar said:
Are you in your forever home now? Do you have enough sunlight exposure to consider the newer type solar? If so the overall long term cost of it versus a natural gas or LP generator is getting damn attractive. Not to mention newer solar powercells function as a backup system about the same except way quieter. You also could get rid of your monthly power bill. Just another idea to consider …
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I'm planning a move to Wilkes Co in 3-5 years. Maybe sooner depending on a number of factors. We bought 46 acres of bare land in April. We are planning our build with solar/battery in mind. My ideal setup would be solar/battery/generator backup and not connected to the grid at all. Not sure we will get there but that's the goal.
 
A friend was looking at a 22KW and the Generac store had them setting in the back parking lot. Gave him an estimate and it was like double the price of the generator which include installation. Got a price from an electrician and the labor was about 25% less. Plans was buying the generator and have the electrician do the installation. Wait for the generator from Generac was 6 months while the store had them in their backyard.
 
Precision Seeker said:
Tagged for interest

I'm curious about the gas bill if you rely on it for an extended period. I've heard they are more expensive to run than you think.
Anyone have feedback on the cost to run one of the natural gas versions?
Click to expand...

See post #42 in this thread:

Whole house Generator options??

Just had power restored following a 50 hour outage. A 12KW diesel EPW genset consumed about .5 gallon per hour providing backup power to my house. First day the air conditioning was running; after that it got cool enough so that the unit did not kick on much. I’m estimating average power...
carolinafirearmsforum.com carolinafirearmsforum.com
 
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Precision Seeker said:
I'm curious about the gas bill if you rely on it for an extended period. I've heard they are more expensive to run than you think.
Anyone have feedback on the cost to run one of the natural gas versions?
Click to expand...
We installed a 22kW Generac at my parents house that runs on propane. It has come on occasionally as the power quality out in the rural areas is pretty poor. When I was investigating the units and the fuel, I saw that the spec sheet listed the consumption at 100% load and at 50% load. The 50% load was approximately (very close to) half of the 100% load. 22KW this would be about 90A at 240Vac, which is a fair amount of power in a house that doesn't have a substantial electrical load under normal circumstances, unless one runs the oven or electric clothes dryer. From this I made the assumption that the propane usage is likely pretty linear in terms of electrical load, beyond that required to simply idle the engine. From the size of the propane tank, if I recall it would run a bit more than a week at full load and about three weeks at half load. I estimate that with a full tank, it would probably go about a month if it ran 24x7, but that would cost a couple thousand dollars in propane.
 
Interesting. Got a call back from the local contractor/dealer who quoted me two years ago. They are coming out to take pics tomorrow morning to re-quote. They have a new 22KW Generac unit available in their inventory for install in September. They say the only thing that really slows them down is waiting on Duke to schedule and do their thing with the meter.

I appreciate the referrals and recommendations from others. This guy is local, a friend and referral from a neighbor of mine who is also on CFF.

They quoted a 22KW at only $500 more than another dealer quoted for 18KW two years ago. Not sure why that guy thought 18KW would be enough when neighbors of mine with similar sized homes built by the same builder all have 22KW units.

Anyway, I’m prepared for what looks like it might be a 12-15% increase. My wife had seen a news article about workers going back to work once unemployment starts to wind down, and subsequent prices coming down. I told her back in the 80’s when I worked for Sylvania, we had an 8% price every year, year after year. I figure we’ve enjoyed a long time without much inflation, but to think I can save money by waiting doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I figure inflation is coming (here already) so I might as well git while the gittin’ is good, unless they try to rob me blind in the re-quote. Remember my home is located in the outer orbits of The Containment Area near RTP, so we get to pay extra for everything.

It ain’t over till it’s over. Will report back after tomorrow.

OH, and of course the HOA approval was only good for 9 months when I got it two years ago, who knows why. Fortunately I have the approval letter and signed request from two years ago to resend, and the head of the committee is a buddy living across the street. Let the march of the HOA pitchforks and torches begin!
 
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fieldgrade said:
Interesting. Got a call back from the local contractor/dealer who quoted me two years ago. They are coming out to take pics tomorrow morning to re-quote. They have a new 22KW Generac unit available in their inventory for install in September. They say the only thing that really slows them down is waiting on Duke to schedule and do their thing with the meter.

I appreciate the referrals and recommendations from others. This guy is local, a friend and referral from a neighbor of mine who is also on CFF.

They quoted a 22KW at only $500 more than another dealer quoted for 18KW two years ago. Not sure why that guy thought 18KW would be enough when neighbors of mine with similar sized homes built by the same builder all have 22KW units.

Anyway, I’m prepared for what looks like it might be a 12-15% increase. My wife had seen a news article about workers going back to work once unemployment starts to wind down, and subsequent prices coming down. I told her back in the 80’s when I worked for Sylvania, we had an 8% price every year, year after year. I figure we’ve enjoyed a long time without much inflation, but to think I can save money by waiting doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I figure inflation is coming (here already) so I might as well git while the gittin’ is good, unless they try to rob me blind in the re-quote. Remember my home is located in the outer orbits of The Containment Area near RTP, so we get to pay extra for everything.

It ain’t over till it’s over. Will report back after tomorrow.

OH, and of course the HOA approval was only good for 9 months when I got it two years ago, who knows why. Fortunately I have the approval letter and signed request from two years ago to resend, and the head of the committee is a buddy living across the street. Let the march of the HOA pitchforks and torches begin!
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$500 is the price difference from 18 to 22kw. My electrician said that most will recommend the 18kw because they get more money from you because they have to install a subpanel and wire up on certain parts of your breakers where you can spend the $500 and run the whole house without the extra money going towards the wiring.
 
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Good luck with your installation.

My 225KW Kohler cost me around .40 per minute to operate (400hp diesel). My older 5,500W Onan LPG generator would consume around 100 gallons of LP every 3 days when running continuously, so around 1.25 gallons per hour.

If you have a 200A power service, I would advise you to get a 200A automatic transfer switch (ATS) so that you don't have to mess around with a generator subpanel. Much easier for the missus if/when there is an outage. There is no reason why you can't install the ATS in advance and ATS's are fairly generic.

If $ were not an object and I was in the market for a new generator, I would want an 1,800 rpm unit instead of the cheaper 3,600 rpm units. Less noise and wear, and they last much longer. Kohler used to be one of the best brands. Cummins Onan's quality dropped after trying to compete with the cheaper Generac units. Engine Power Source (EPS) out of Rock Hill, SC makes an excellent generator; much higher quality than Generac, but they are only available in diesel fuel. Baldor generators are OK. MQ Power (Multiquip) makes an excellent unit, and their Studio (Movie Quiet) generators are amongst the best available in the USA.
 
@fieldgrade I forgot to mention, one thing you may want to consider, or investigate, is a soft starter for your HVAC / Heat Pump. Our HVAC company said that they have had some issues with the compressors not starting when on a generator, even the whole house one, and put a soft starter on it to alleviate this. I think it was only a couple hundred dollars. I am honestly a bit surprised that it was an issue as the compressor in this unit isn't huge as its a geo-thermal system and the entire unit, air handler, heat exchanger, compressor, everything except the pump, is about the size of a small refrigerator. I guess it's still that really high inrush current on an across the line motor start that gets it.
 
noway2 said:
@fieldgrade I forgot to mention, one thing you may want to consider, or investigate, is a soft starter for your HVAC / Heat Pump. Our HVAC company said that they have had some issues with the compressors not starting when on a generator, even the whole house one, and put a soft starter on it to alleviate this. I think it was only a couple hundred dollars. I am honestly a bit surprised that it was an issue as the compressor in this unit isn't huge as its a geo-thermal system and the entire unit, air handler, heat exchanger, compressor, everything except the pump, is about the size of a small refrigerator. I guess it's still that really high inrush current on an across the line motor start that gets it.
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I’ll ask about it. There are a half dozen Generacs in my neighborhood and most the AC units are Trane all installed the same two year period. I know the folks so I can ask if they had any issues with the A/C running on generator.
 
KnotRight said:
Also, Generac put a surge protector on the Generac side of the panel. Think that was about $250.
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We put a surge suppressor on a the same time we added the soft starter. There was a thunderstorm and it fried the thermostat and a control board in the heat pump. Thankfully, it was under warranty, but a surge suppressor is cheap insurance. Just remember that they don't last forever and you will want to check or replace it eventually.
 
noway2 said:
We put a surge suppressor on a the same time we added the soft starter. There was a thunderstorm and it fried the thermostat and a control board in the heat pump. Thankfully, it was under warranty, but a surge suppressor is cheap insurance. Just remember that they don't last forever and you will want to check or replace it eventually.
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noway2, does yours have 2 green lights on the surge protector?
 
KnotRight said:
noway2, does yours have 2 green lights on the surge protector?
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Off hand, I don't know. Good question. It is inside one of the electrical panels. There are two, one for the generator, one for the main service entrance. I remember the electrician saying there was just enough room for it.
 
I have no problems starting a 3 ton HVAC with a 12KW generator, so 22KW should not be a problem unless you have a LOT of HVAC.

Soft start kits are basically oversized capacitors. The parts kit probably cost less than $75.00
 
Our downstairs is 4 ton and upstairs is 2.5. neither had a problem starting/running on our 20kw. Our upstairs does have a load shed switch installed so if there is too much load it cuts out.
 
In 2016 I installed a 20KW Kohler and automatic transfer switch.

The genset runs on natural gas (which I think derates it to about 18KW). I have 200A service and the ATS includes 7 automatic load-shed circuits.

When we installed the unit, we tried to load up the house to hit load shed and didn't. My load includes 2 x 3.5T AC + a 1.5T ductless split, 2 water heaters, 2 crawl space sump pumps + 2 dehumidifiers, electric oven, lots of lights and computers. A number of circuits, including the pool, are on automatic lockout and won't receive generator power.

The longest I was on generator power was for 56 hours after a massive storm blew trees down on the powerlines all around. I have had no issues with the generator.

When power fails, generator starts and the ATS waits for approx. 30 seconds for power output to stabilize before switching. I make sure all my computers are UPS with minimum 5 minute loaded runtime.

E&W Electrical of Hillsborough did the installation and does routine maintenance. They're 100% dedicated to generator installs - both home and commercial. The entire installation was completed in 1 day, and I don't believe they had to wait for Piedmont Electric in order to do the install. Dominion Energy (or whatever it was in 2016) charged me $1800 to run a gas line 20 feet from the meter to the generator location in advance of the install.

The Kohler includes a network unit that communicates status to their server and allows you to see status and configure/control via an app or the web. The generator continues to work even if the network fails. E&W ran an ethernet line to my router location. I see newer units use wifi. About every 18 months, the network connection will drop and not reconnect and I need to power-reset the network board. Unfortunately, this means opening up the box and disconnecting the battery for 5 seconds.

E&W has a maintenance plan that runs about $500/year. They come out and change the oil, oil filter, air filter, and check the battery (and replace if necessary). They also do a load test to ensure the generator can supply the required amount of energy, check the ATS works properly, etc. etc. etc.

One note for those considering buying a generator from a big box store or other outlet and installing it themselves or having a local electrician do the install: none of the genset manufacturers will honor their warranty unless the genset is installed by an authorized and licensed installer. You may find that your all-in cost will be less if you purchase both the genset andinstall from an authorized installer.

One other thing to note: I had E&W do some additional electrical work on my pool recently (found a major electrocution hazard with the in-pool lighting system) and E&W told me that copper wire prices have doubled in the past year and conduit prices have tripled.
 
Not sure if there is a Costco nearby but we got ours through them locally. Installers came out and did their measurements, etc and said it would be around three months for a 22kw Generac to come in. It actually took less than 3 weeks. The installers handled all the permitting, inspections, etc.

Price was on the high end but Costco kicks back like 10% of the total job (not just the unit) in the form of a gift card/store credit. We spend a lot there so bottom line worked for us.
 
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