Why you shouldn't search with a weapon-mounted light on a handgun

Amp Mangum

Amp Mangum

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0:00 - The popular weapon-mounted light
1:05 - Not for searching
1:35 - Light spill over
2:15 - Felony aggravated assault
3:05 - Misdemeanor brandishing
4:20 - Treat the same as a scope
5:15 - Possibility of accidental discharge
6:00 - They save lives
7:15 - Always have separate illumination
7:50 - Increase accuracy
8:30 - use them as intended

 
I RO'd a night match last weekend. THIS match was pretty safe relative to others I've worked. But we did have people fussing with their lights (tightening mounts, looking at it to see why it wouldn't turn on, etc.) to the point of being dangerous. I've had folks at night matches wanting to use their WML to navigate the trail/course. It seems to me that when the lights go out, people tend to lose their common sense.
 
Good watch! Low-light home defense and solo cqb with Apex defense last month was pretty eye opening for me.
 
Amp Mangum said:
4:20 - Treat the same as a scope
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I hate it when people treat the scope on their firearm as if it were a spotting scope. That is an excellent way you get yourself shot out of a tree stand back in the woods. Illuminating someone with the light on your handgun is another very good way of getting shot.
 
Shot a night match and it was scary.

Love the light on my home defense gun. Have a Tlr-6 on a G43. It produces almost enough light to read a book by, if you hold it 3" in front of the light. But it does have a laser, which my cats enjoy. Poor little guys get swept a lot.
 
NKD said:
Shot a night match and it was scary.

Love the light on my home defense gun. Have a Tlr-6 on a G43. It produces almost enough light to read a book by, if you hold it 3" in front of the light. But it does have a laser, which my cats enjoy. Poor little guys get swept a lot.
Click to expand...

The trick is to use the laser to get the cats to attack the bad guy for you. Just put the dot on him and release the killers. Problem solved, no shots fired.
 
Tim said:
I've had folks at night matches wanting to use their WML to navigate the trail/course. It seems to me that when the lights go out, people tend to lose their common sense.
Click to expand...

You can tell who has and uses and EDC flashlight at the night matches. When I want to see stuff my first instinct is to reach for my pocket, not my holster.

Somewhat related, I was at one night match where the cool kids were using full NV.

lights on...
"shooter ready, standby...."
*beep*
*darkness*
*muzzle flash muzzle flash muzzle flash*
"If the shooter is finished..."
lights on....

No telling how many fault lines he stepped over. What a cheat!
 
Jayne said:
You can tell who has and uses and EDC flashlight at the night matches. When I want to see stuff my first instinct is to reach for my pocket, not my holster.

Somewhat related, I was at one night match where the cool kids were using full NV.

lights on...
"shooter ready, standby...."
*beep*
*darkness*
*muzzle flash muzzle flash muzzle flash*
"If the shooter is finished..."
lights on....

No telling how many fault lines he stepped over. What a cheat!
Click to expand...

They find the bodies the next morning.
 
Jayne said:
You can tell who has and uses and EDC flashlight at the night matches. When I want to see stuff my first instinct is to reach for my pocket, not my holster.
Click to expand...
I did one class where we had to shoot strong hand only because we were supposed to pretend we had a flashlight in our other hand.
I didn't have to pretend
We did a shoot-until-empty drill and reholster, then pretend to draw a knife.
again... only one of us wasn't pretending.

instructor looked at me like i was weird... for being prepared for his imaginary scenarios...
 
CZfool68 said:
These night matches sound like a good way to have your family collect on some life insurance. Find the one with the rookie Director and RO’s and have at it.
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A night match is a good way to find out how YOU handle a firearm in the dark. Highly recommended.
 
Back when I was an L.E.O. (10 years ago), NC Department of Training & Standards didn't recognize a weapon mounted light as a source of illumination. Officer's carrying weapons mounted lights couldn't use them during night qualification.

It ALWAYS cracked me up watching officer's qual with weapon mounted lights having to use their issue MAGLITES instead.....
 
USMC6094 said:
Back when I was an L.E.O. (10 years ago), NC Department of Training & Standards didn't recognize a weapon mounted light as a source of illumination. Officer's carrying weapons mounted lights couldn't use them during night qualification.

It ALWAYS cracked me up watching officer's qual with weapon mounted lights having to use their issue MAGLITES instead.....
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Yeah it’s pretty comical at times. We made our officers shoot twice at night if they were issued a weapon mounted light, once with and once without.
 
DrScaryGuy said:
I did one class where we had to shoot strong hand only because we were supposed to pretend we had a flashlight in our other hand.
I didn't have to pretend
We did a shoot-until-empty drill and reholster, then pretend to draw a knife.
again... only one of us wasn't pretending.

instructor looked at me like i was weird... for being prepared for his imaginary scenarios...
Click to expand...

Who doesn't carry a knife?? I call shenanigans on your story! :)
 
fieldgrade said:
A night match is a good way to find out how YOU handle a firearm in the dark. Highly recommended.
Click to expand...
Night matches are a ton of fun. Highly recommended.

But, as an RO there is a bit of extra vigilance required. Especially if it’s someone new to their NVG toys.
 
Charlie said:
I hate it when people treat the scope on their firearm as if it were a spotting scope. That is an excellent way you get yourself shot out of a tree stand back in the woods. Illuminating someone with the light on your handgun is another very good way of getting shot.
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I’m guilty of this. Every hunter is if they have hunted for a long time. But I do see the the reasoning especially on public lands. Where I hunt it’s private, meaning it’s my own land. That can get into something totally different. But anyway, I used to use my scope as binoculars but I now have some and use them all the time from watching squirrels and birds play to looking for deer. But I still use the magnification on my scope to see if it’s a button buck or a doe so I can decide whether to shoot or not.
 
I see every AR on here with a 300$ light setup and wonder how many have ever been used in any kind of actual shooting situation.
Ima guess about 5% or less.

It’s an eye opener. One thing you quickly realize: a whole bunch of smoke comes out of the end of a gun.
 
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Have learned a ton shooting multiple night matches at different ranges. A good light is key , i carry a small hand held for administrative work - but you don’t have to point w WML directly at something to illuminate it. Plenty of lumens help , but candela is king
Smoke coming from your gun quickly clouds your vision - powerful light can make a difference. Your O light isn’t going to cut it. Suppressors help some by reducing the amount of gas coming from the muzzle
 
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Tim said:
Night matches are a ton of fun. Highly recommended.

But, as an RO there is a bit of extra vigilance required. Especially if it’s someone new to their NVG toys.
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Was your match at Gryphon ? We made a couple this year at that range (3 last year) couldn’t make last weekend work due to my job
 
BrettB said:
Was your match at Gryphon ? We made a couple this year at that range (3 last year) couldn’t make last weekend work due to my job
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Nope, this was the Legion Memorial Run n Gun in TN.
 
He could have saved a lot of time and simply cited the relevant rule:

"Always Keep Firearm Pointed in a Safe direction. Never point your gun at anything you do not intend to shoot."

Using your firearm to conduct a search with a mounted flashlight pretty much violates the bejeebers out of this. No need to beat it to death beyond this.
 
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Jayne said:
The trick is to use the laser to get the cats to attack the bad guy for you. Just put the dot on him and release the killers. Problem solved, no shots fired.
Click to expand...
Laser guided attack cats. I like it. Kinda like an organic Hellfire missle.
 

Why you should search with a weapon-mounted light on a handgun:​

1. You can't see your target
2. You can shoot better with two hands
3. You don't have NVGs
4. Clickbait articles written by an overly cautious author with bad toupee should be viewed with skepticism.
 
There was a stage at the @VOD Tactical night 3 gun last year on the rifle range where we ran right to left (thanks @Tim 😡😆) across the lane.

I made my shots from the right side of the bay and then put it in gear to run across with my rifle in hand only to realize I couldn't see a damn thing. My reaction was to sweep over with the muzzle and rifle light but I caught myself before I did so.

So yea, I've added several lights to my kit. First is a housekeeping and admin headlamp. I wear this around my neck for loading mags and fumbling about in my bag. I'll also be adding a handheld to my gun belt for situations like the one that I described above.

That particular setup takes all 123 batteries. One in the Eotech. One in the Malkoff. 2 in the X300. One in the headlamp. 2 in the SF L4 handheld. I know rechargeables are the rage but I wanted that setup to be simple and robust.

During that match, I also kept a chem light on my chamber flag to keep it and me visible and I liked that. I'll also be adding one to my rear next time. I'll make it a point to crack them early so they aren't quite as bright for the NV guys.
 
Where I hunt I use my scope because I’m not shooting 360* all around. Basically one shooting lane on a slight downhill with nothing around it. If I was on public land that would be different

And having a WML for home defense and doing a quick sweep for a bad guy is a different situation than say a cop searching an area for a suspect


There are a lot of caveats to what he is saying
 
I find myself at odds with Massad on some of his statements. Not sure how much research he did for that piece. In North Carolina, assault by pointing a gun is a Class A1 misdemeanor under North Carolina General Statute 14-43. Not felony assault as he stated. Anyway, this isn’t the first time of being at odds with some of his philosophies. I respect what he has built in the firearms community. So I don’t want to sound like I’m really bashing him. I just have different philosophies.
 
Average Joe said:
In North Carolina, assault by pointing a gun is a Class A1 misdemeanor under North Carolina General Statute 14-43. Not felony assault as he stated.
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This was probably not your central point, but as a (retired) businessman, this is how I think.

Risk v. reward. What’s the downside to my decision?
 
fieldgrade said:
This was probably not your central point, but as a (retired) businessman, this is how I think.

Risk v. reward. What’s the downside to my decision?
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That is a valid decision making process, with many benefits in the right situation. In this scenario I believe his one size fits all solution to be good for some , but dangerous for others. Most of Massad’s philosophies are one size fits all. I’m more be flexible and adaptable given the totality of the circumstances.
 
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Getting ready to conduct a "search" using a WML in about 10 minutes. I do it every night. At least once. It's not unusual to have to get up once or twice per week in the middle of the night and do the same because of a ruckus with the animals. Sometimes I carry a separate handheld light but most often I don't. That depends on the sound that wakes me up.

I've killed many a critter after dark. Some under very stressful quickly evolving time-sensitive circumstances, sometimes while trying not to hit my animal/s that's being attacked. Sometimes simply enacting revenge for the damage already done and to prevent future molestation.

Most often these issues occur outdoors. Every once in a while it will be indoors. Not saying any of this experience translates to interacting with critters that might shoot back. But smoke is not a problem outdoors, period, for anything other than some kind of prolonged sustained fight I would imagine. And that's based on using both handguns and long guns after dark outdoors.

Never really had an issue with smoke indoors either. But USUALLY when I fire a gun indoors after dark it's in my 12x20 chicken coop. It's often with 9mm. So I really limit my shots especially in the heat of the moment since the coop has an 8 inch thick concrete floor. And you might have milliseconds to try and calculate what the trajectory of the ricochet is gonna be because you're probably gonna penetrate all the way through that coon.

Like the man said above, I like ole Mas. I've enjoyed reading his contributions over the years. And I like most of y'all fellas that live in town (which probably does call for a different approach than mine). But blanket statements and generalizations are just that. I doubt I handle 2 legged critter alarms any differently. In 22 years I've only had one such issue out here after dark and it was before I even owned a WML and that interaction went just fine. You gotta try REALLY hard to be out here WITHOUT ill intent and get a WML pointed at you. You gotta try so hard that filing charges won't be a concern for anyone involved.
 
Amp Mangum said:
0:00 - The popular weapon-mounted light
1:05 - Not for searching
1:35 - Light spill over
2:15 - Felony aggravated assault
3:05 - Misdemeanor brandishing
4:20 - Treat the same as a scope
5:15 - Possibility of accidental discharge
6:00 - They save lives
7:15 - Always have separate illumination
7:50 - Increase accuracy
8:30 - use them as intended

Click to expand...

Thanks. That is an excellent video.
 
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