VinFast is Building A $4B Auto Plant In Moncure, NC

Joe. said:
That’s one case in a different state. Any precedent in NC?
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Yes, it has precedent in every state. It was a US Supreme Court ruling. See below.

Kelo v. City of New London, 545 U.S. 469 (2005),[1] was a landmark decision of the Supreme Court of the United States in which the Court held, 5–4, that the use of eminent domain to transfer land from one private owner to another private owner to further economic development does not violate the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment.

Edited: I made this post prior to reading the entire thread. I should have known you guys would have been on top of it.
 
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noway2 said:
Wolfspeed huh? Another company I have never heard of. Then I read that they were formerly known as Cree, who was at the forefront of the LED lighting revolution but then became known of really poor quality and pretty much crashed and burned. Apparently a name change is supposed to solve that, or at least cause enough dis-joint that the non thinkers don't notice.

Why is the area getting products that people aren't likely to buy and companies that aren't likely to make it big? I have no interest in electric vehicles because of a lot of the cost and other issues associated with them, including pushing the pollution up stream and the dirty mining required for the batteries. I have even less interest in them from a manufacturer I have never heard of based in a 2nd or 3rd world country.
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Wolfspeed has $13.5 billion (that's BILLION, with a B) market cap, you silly goose ;) And they merged with Cree...Cree didn't crash and burn. Just because you or I have never heard of a company nor will buy their products, it doesn't mean it's bad for the local and regional economy. I highly doubt that many in the Triad plan on buying a supersonic jet anytime soon, but that doesn't mean that GBO, etc aren't doing cartwheels because Boom is coming there.
 
Average Joe said:
Yes, it has precedent in every state. It was a US Supreme Court ruling. See below.

Kelo v. City of New London, 545 U.S. 469 (2005),[1] was a landmark decision of the Supreme Court of the United States in which the Court held, 5–4, that the use of eminent domain to transfer land from one private owner to another private owner to further economic development does not violate the Takings Clause of the Fifth Amendment.

Edited: I made this post prior to reading the entire thread. I should have known you guys would have been on top of it.
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Then I’m sure you read my response ;)
 
fishgutzy said:
My own prediction, given that the company is owned by the communist party of Vietnam, expect most of the high level managers to be imported from Vietnam. A lot of the labor will be too. There will be controlled access housing, out of sight, in the grounds too.
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Vinfast is not owned by the communist party of Vietnam— not sure where everyone is getting that from. It’s owned by Vingroup, the largest non-state run company in Vietnam and is publicly traded on the Nikkei. Y’all watch too much X-Files 😜
 
Joe. said:
Then I’m sure you read my response ;)
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Yes sir, I read your response. You have too much faith in state and local governing bodies. NC’s eminent domain laws have plenty of exceptions that still allow them to condemn property and transfer it to other entities later. Of course it will take a long time for this to happen. But what’s the point of fighting to keep your property. If you are broke and in debt in the end.
 
Dang @Joe., where you been since March? This thread would have died back then if you would have been involved. You seem to have all the knowledge about this subject, from eminent domain to the inner workings of Vietnamese companies. Let us all that are directly effected by this venture just sit back and let Joe. explain to us just how we don't know squat and should be jumping for joy to have such a great community opertunity coming to improve our miserable lives.
 
Me. said:
27rGoCfDwLlU.gif
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Dude, you can't do that to me. After a few drinks and stuff like that goes to my head and I suddenly think I am a genius, then I open my mouth and prove that I am not. Worse I get on the keyboard and then the proof is on the internet FOREVER!
 
cold1 said:
Dang @Joe., where you been since March? This thread would have died back then if you would have been involved. You seem to have all the knowledge about this subject, from eminent domain to the inner workings of Vietnamese companies. Let us all that are directly effected by this venture just sit back and let Joe. explain to us just how we don't know squat and should be jumping for joy to have such a great community opertunity coming to improve our miserable lives.
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I have a couple of decades worth of relevant experience and have been tracking the Vinfast news pretty closely since it first broke. Admittedly, I have not gotten involved at the hyperlocal level, so I don't know how you or some others in this forum, in particular, have been impacted. Fortunately/unfortunately (depending on how you look at it), you invested in an area that is very attractive to outside investment. I, too, have experienced sprawl coming my way and I'm just riding it out until the right time and will cash in as well. Best wishes out there.
 
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fishgutzy said:
NY promised them a crap ton of money to build a facility there. Was gonna cost taxpayers about $500k per job created. I don't know if they ever broke ground on it. But NY made a big deal out of it.
But nobody with brains and experience wants to take any job requiring moving to NY.
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Ha! Says the guy that went to MD. Love you man, but that was too funny.
 
Joe. said:
Vinfast is not owned by the communist party of Vietnam— not sure where everyone is getting that from. It’s owned by Vingroup, the largest non-state run company in Vietnam and is publicly traded on the Nikkei. Y’all watch too much X-Files 😜
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Fishy seems like a nice guy...but he'll post some BS sometimes that has no/zero backing to it. Im not talking about an opinion that some may deem as wrong, but 'facts' that are easily debunked. Stick around, you'll figure out stuff.
 
Here is the approximate location for Wolfspeed.

1662755052969.png

I drew the line only generally around the area shown at a press conference today. The lines in yellow are not accurate, but put the area into perspecive if the location and Siler City:

1662755061062.png



wraltechwire.com

Wolfspeed announces $5 billion investment in Chatham County, largest in NC history | WRAL TechWire

Wolfspeed will build a new semiconductor plant at a 400-acre site in Chatham County with an estimated investment of $5 billion and a commitment to create more than 1,800 jobs paying $77,000 a year on average. But it's going to cost North Carolina tax payers some $1 billion in a variety of tax...
wraltechwire.com wraltechwire.com
 
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Me. said:
Here is the approximate location for Wolfspeed.

View attachment 521837

I drew the line only generally around the area shown at a press conference today. The lines in yellow are not accurate, but put the area into perspecive if the location and Siler City:

View attachment 521838



wraltechwire.com

Wolfspeed announces $5 billion investment in Chatham County, largest in NC history | WRAL TechWire

Wolfspeed will build a new semiconductor plant at a 400-acre site in Chatham County with an estimated investment of $5 billion and a commitment to create more than 1,800 jobs paying $77,000 a year on average. But it's going to cost North Carolina tax payers some $1 billion in a variety of tax...
wraltechwire.com wraltechwire.com
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Thanks, I'm glad to see they didn't do it right next to us this time. I'm now seeing a bunch more yellow signs around the house announcing a Chatham Co public meeting about more pieces of land. They just clear cut another area that isn't Vinfast or FxUd.
 
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Me. said:
Here is the approximate location for Wolfspeed.

View attachment 521837

I drew the line only generally around the area shown at a press conference today. The lines in yellow are not accurate, but put the area into perspecive if the location and Siler City:

View attachment 521838



wraltechwire.com

Wolfspeed announces $5 billion investment in Chatham County, largest in NC history | WRAL TechWire

Wolfspeed will build a new semiconductor plant at a 400-acre site in Chatham County with an estimated investment of $5 billion and a commitment to create more than 1,800 jobs paying $77,000 a year on average. But it's going to cost North Carolina tax payers some $1 billion in a variety of tax...
wraltechwire.com wraltechwire.com
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I've got mixed feelings about this. I was a kid in the 70s in Siler. I remember the town was still busy and the main street was always full on Saturdays. Everyone on the sidewalks stopping and talking and just great memories of being a kid and a teenager there. Friday nights at Pizza Hut after the ballgames where the best.

I watched as the town slowly died. The textile mills shutdown, houses stopped being maintained, businesses disappearing. Now the highlight of siler is Walmart and the town is just so run down. The demographics of the town has changed and there are more tiendas than anything. It really is not the town I grew up in anymore.

So having this new company come in may bring back ,breafly, the booming fun town I remember before it goes to full scale suburbia hell with HOAs and modern city life.
 
Joe. said:
Wolfspeed has $13.5 billion (that's BILLION, with a B) market cap, you silly goose ;) And they merged with Cree...Cree didn't crash and burn. Just because you or I have never heard of a company nor will buy their products, it doesn't mean it's bad for the local and regional economy. I highly doubt that many in the Triad plan on buying a supersonic jet anytime soon, but that doesn't mean that GBO, etc aren't doing cartwheels because Boom is coming there.
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"Wolfspeed" did not merge with Cree, it's just Cree changing their name.

NameChange

In September 2019, the company announced a $1 billion investment in a semiconductor manufacturing plant in Marcy, New York to build the world’s largest silicon carbide fabrication facility with a $500 million grant from New York State.

In April 2022, the Marcy, New York, facility opened.[19] New York Governor Kathy Hochul[20] and US Senator Chuck Schumer[19] spoke at the event.

"Boom" might be a very descriptive name after all. Rolls Royce has pulled out of the engine development and Bloomberg has an article on the current trials and tribulations of getting off the ground. Boom has already missed milestones and doesn't seem to be going anywhere fast. Hopefully NC has delayed payments or a claw back provision in the the contract for tax dollars.

Don't look to GE to jump in either, they are still burned by Aerion, another one of those 'supersonic flights' that went no where.

Oh and they had "buyers" lined up as well. Including some guy named Buffet. Until certification and delivery, it's all just smoke and mirrors.

No more RR
FunandGamesUntilItIsn't
 
Joe. said:
Vinfast is not owned by the communist party of Vietnam— not sure where everyone is getting that from. It’s owned by Vingroup, the largest non-state run company in Vietnam and is publicly traded on the Nikkei. Y’all watch too much X-Files 😜
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And it appears to be going quite well.

On February 9, 2022, Nikkei reported that Vingroup lost approximately $1.05 billion in 2021 "at its manufacturing segment last year due to sluggish sales of gasoline-powered cars at home and growing investments in the emerging electric vehicle business."
 
After my last two posts I'd like to state for the record that while those make me sound like a bitter C.O.G. I really hope the Cree Wolfspeed thing works out and even the VinFast company works and stick around for a few decades at least. I know some people who have worked at Cree Wolfspeed for years and they seem to like it. Hopefully the "chip" products produced there remain in demand for future use by others and it maintains it's workforce for years to come.

I'd like to get a nice high paying job at one of those places as well to work until my retirement, it'd be nice to have a decent job, benefits and not sweat being laid off just because some needs to make the numbers. I fully intend to apply even if they are smart and hire someone with talent instead of me, just because it would be less of a drive and I'm willing to work even on a dull assembly line for a few years until I call it quits. :cool:

This doesn't mean I don't have sympathy for the locals that didn't sign up for the overwhelming growth. And I hope the locals get their pockets lined, not some out of state big business types that swoop in and sweep up the outlay of dollars. Hopefully everyone in the area benefits not just a few thousands of miles away. And hopefully the tax dollars don't disappear down a dark hole, never to be seen again.

Given the current economic headwinds, I can't help but wonder just how far this all goes. I've seen too many cases where everyone gets all excited, tax dollars are burned, and the sites wind up sitting empty with weeds growing in the parking lot. Assuming anything gets beyond the cut all the trees down and move some dirt phase.

I should have been born in Missouri because I've become more of the "show me" type vs all of the Chamber of Commerce hype BS that get's spewed around these days. Promises don't pay the bills, let me know when these sites have been in operation for a decade or more and have maintained a steady employment level of the locals, maybe then I'll get excited. 👴
 
LesBaer45 said:
"Wolfspeed" did not merge with Cree, it's just Cree changing their name.

NameChange

In September 2019, the company announced a $1 billion investment in a semiconductor manufacturing plant in Marcy, New York to build the world’s largest silicon carbide fabrication facility with a $500 million grant from New York State.

In April 2022, the Marcy, New York, facility opened.[19] New York Governor Kathy Hochul[20] and US Senator Chuck Schumer[19] spoke at the event.

"Boom" might be a very descriptive name after all. Rolls Royce has pulled out of the engine development and Bloomberg has an article on the current trials and tribulations of getting off the ground. Boom has already missed milestones and doesn't seem to be going anywhere fast. Hopefully NC has delayed payments or a claw back provision in the the contract for tax dollars.

Don't look to GE to jump in either, they are still burned by Aerion, another one of those 'supersonic flights' that went no where.

Oh and they had "buyers" lined up as well. Including some guy named Buffet. Until certification and delivery, it's all just smoke and mirrors.

No more RR
FunandGamesUntilItIsn't
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Yes, you are correct. It was not simply a name change, however, as Wolfspeed had been the brand for the company’s semiconductor devices business unit for the past few years. Other business units were divested and their silicon carbide materials business, "Wolfspeed", effectively took over as the company's core strategy. So, not a name change because Cree, as a company, was failing...likely because certain units were becoming not as profitable as Wolfspeed's.
 
LesBaer45 said:
And it appears to be going quite well.

On February 9, 2022, Nikkei reported that Vingroup lost approximately $1.05 billion in 2021 "at its manufacturing segment last year due to sluggish sales of gasoline-powered cars at home and growing investments in the emerging electric vehicle business."
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Seems to be going OK for their Vinfast division:
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Au...-hands-over-1st-electric-SUVs-eyes-U.S.-sales
asia.nikkei.com

Vietnam's VinFast to raise $4bn to make EVs, batteries in U.S.

Deals with Credit Suisse, Citigroup come ahead of planned IPO
asia.nikkei.com asia.nikkei.com
 
Joe. said:
Seems to be going OK for their Vinfast division:
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Au...-hands-over-1st-electric-SUVs-eyes-U.S.-sales
asia.nikkei.com

Vietnam's VinFast to raise $4bn to make EVs, batteries in U.S.

Deals with Credit Suisse, Citigroup come ahead of planned IPO
asia.nikkei.com asia.nikkei.com
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I know what you are saying and don't dispute it. Hopefully VF does well and I can collect some of that sweet,sweet cash in the near future as well.

However those "banks" are merely facilitating the 'raising' of the money before the IPO so they can run the IPO and collect their fees. They won't be the bag holders.

CS and Citi are very good at playing the game with OPM but they have a rather spotty track record as of late.
 
LesBaer45 said:
I know what you are saying and don't dispute it. Hopefully VF does well and I can collect some of that sweet,sweet cash in the near future as well.

However those "banks" are merely facilitating the 'raising' of the money before the IPO so they can run the IPO and collect their fees. They won't be the bag holders.

CS and Citi are very good at playing the game with OPM but they have a rather spotty track record as of late.
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Spot on WRT the banks 👍🏼👊🏼
 
fishgutzy said:
This one actually will bring well paying jobs. They got screwed by NY state. But they should have known better.
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Cree sold off the lighting side to Ideal and is focused on the semiconductor side. They have power supply chips so they could make the bulbs. Bulb production moved to China.
I recall four guys in Cree shirts purchased many of the Philips LED bulbs at my HD, no doubt they were going to take them apart to see if their patents we're infringed.
 
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Seems to me at least that the Toyota EV plant built or to be built in Liberty is getting no press? Headhunter pinged me the other day for interest in electrical facilities engineer position because I had Toyota experience on my resume. Big plant they built in Alabama or Mississippi, I forget which. Was going to be trucks, then SUV's, then Prius, then they locked the doors and turned out the lights for a few years. I think they make engines for something there now. I was remote, pushing data around on a sceen, Never saw the place. 14 production lines.
 
jimmyjames8 said:
Seems to me at least that the Toyota EV plant built or to be built in Liberty is getting no press? Headhunter pinged me the other day for interest in electrical facilities engineer position because I had Toyota experience on my resume. Big plant they built in Alabama or Mississippi, I forget which. Was going to be trucks, then SUV's, then Prius, then they locked the doors and turned out the lights for a few years. I think they make engines for something there now. I was remote, pushing data around on a sceen, Never saw the place. 14 production lines.
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I thought the Toyota place was going to be a battery plant or those new capacitor solid state based energy storage units or whatever T is calling them. Didn't think any vehicles were going to be produced there but I'm not certain about that and would have to go do some googling for articles on the announcement to verify.

Since you are an 'insider' don't forget to hook a brotha up when the cushy jobs open up there. I'd look good doing jumping jacks in those spiffy white uniforms and caps.

Or don't they do that anymore? Passe'?

*I said capacitor. I should have said 'solid state' as they aren't the same thing.
 
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LesBaer45 said:
I thought the Toyota place was going to be a battery plant or those new capacitor solid state based energy storage units or whatever T is calling them. Didn't think any vehicles were going to be produced there but I'm not certain about that and would have to go do some googling for articles on the announcement to verify.

Since you are an 'insider' don't forget to hook a brotha up when the cushy jobs open up there. I'd look good doing jumping jacks in those spiffy white uniforms and caps.

Or don't they do that anymore? Passe'?

*I said capacitor. I should have said 'solid state' as they aren't the same thing.
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The job description said EV mfr plant but Toyota shifts priorities and direction on a dime. I'm way out of the job mkt. Got off the treadmill and out of the rat race in 2015. But evidently they are hiring or at least interviewing already. I never worked for them directly. They use a lot of sub contractors who use a lot of sub contractors. Very hard to work for directly as I understand as is Honda.
 
jimmyjames8 said:
The job description said EV mfr plant but Toyota shifts priorities and direction on a dime. I'm way out of the job mkt. Got off the treadmill and out of the rat race in 2015. But evidently they are hiring or at least interviewing already. I never worked for them directly. They use a lot of sub contractors who use a lot of sub contractors. Very hard to work for directly as I understand as is Honda.
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Honda’s very weird. I worked briefly at the plant in Swepsonville for several months, many years ago & ended up just not coming back from break one night. Used tons of temps, almost never hired, etc. Crap pay, the whole nine. Didn’t matter how good or dependable you were. If you were more than 10 or 15 minutes late (never an issue for me), they’d dock you 4 hours pay & couldn’t figure why everyone that punched in late were all exactly 4 hours late.

I’ve worked any number of odd/weird/difficult jobs in my life, but Honda just sucked. That place got me off my ass to use my GI Bill to carry my ass back to school & learn something air conditioned & much more lucrative.
 
This was in the Chatham Chatlist (email) list this morning:

The jalopnik review is worth reading. To say it's scathing, and unflattering would be an understatement. If the review is any indication this Vinfast is going die fast.
Subject: Ouch! Reviews of Vinfast's electric cars coming to the US market

Interesting article about the Vietnamese electric car company that's planning to set up a plant in Chatham County
jalopnik.com/vinfast-vf8-electric-car-first-drive-not-ready-for-u-s-1849892217

"Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid have had their struggles making cars, but at the end of the day their products are very good. By comparison, VinFast’s efforts feel almost like early Hyundai and Kia; cheap, unrefined, underdeveloped, and not competitive. It took decades for the Korean automakers to shake that reputation; I don’t know if VinFast, or any brand that hopes to break into the mainstream, can afford to come out of the gate in 2022 without a home run."

"In its current state, at the price VinFast wants to charge, the VF8 is a terrible deal. It feels like an underdeveloped, unfinished product that, quite frankly, would be an embarrassment in any market."

Motortrend article
motortrend.com/news/2023-vinfast-vf-8-preview-coming-to-america/
"Whether American buyers will bite on VinFast's cars, the VF 8's low initial range, or its battery subscription model remains to be seen, but with the first 999 2023 VF8 City Editions hitting Californians on December 26 we won't have to wait long to find out."
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Edit to add, this is from the test drive portion of the review:
The VinFast VF8 is a compact-ish midsize EV crossover, with 350 horsepower in Eco trim and 402 HP in the Plus trim. Even with the generally higher curb weight inherent to an electric vehicle, 350 horsepower should be enough to scoot the VF8 around with authority. Yet throughout my time behind the wheel, the VF8 felt like it had barely half that output. I drove every pre-production vehicle VinFast brought to the event; all of them felt slow, and their performance was inconsistent.

The ride and handling were even worse. As VinFast bussed us from place to place, I noticed that company reps would always follow us in a few VF8s. Much of Vietnam’s highway system is brand-new and very smooth, but the VF8s were constantly bounding up and down, with poor suspension control that was visible from the bus. I shooed it away, figuring that the VinFast team was driving development mules that didn’t represent the near-final cars I was under the impression we would be driving.

Nope. Driving one VF8 after another around VinFast’s private island test course, my experience was exactly what I had seen as the VinFast folks tailed us around north Vietnam. Even on the island resort’s glass-smooth roads, the VF8 bucked and bounced as if the car was on cut springs. The steering was dead and nonlinear, paired with tires that gave up grip at the slightest bit of cornering verve, though I’m not sure how much of a dynamic impression one can get on a closed course on a private resort island.
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The journalist was repeatedly told that the only thing the US models need is a few software tweaks and they'll be ready for our market. Yeah right! Who is going to pay upwards of $60K and then have to pay thousands more every year to lease a battery for a car that is basically junk?
 
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Well the good news is that Moncure will soon have the VinStore, VinSchool, VinMed Clinic, and VinBar. I can't wait!

Reading the jalopnik article just reinforces my earlier suspicions:
Cape Fear said:
I'm with y'all. I've been speculating since the news broke on this thing that it's some big money laundering thing funded by NC taxpayers. Or some clever graft by the VinFast people & politicians.
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noway2 said:
This was in the Chatham Chatlist (email) list this morning:

The jalopnik review is worth reading. To say it's scathing, and unflattering would be an understatement. If the review is any indication this Vinfast is going die fast.


Edit to add, this is from the test drive portion of the review:

The journalist was repeatedly told that the only thing the US models need is a few software tweaks and they'll be ready for our market. Yeah right! Who is going to pay upwards of $60K and then have to pay thousands more every year to lease a battery for a car that is basically junk?
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They reviewed a pre production unit. And Jalopnik does nice articles but, like consumer reports, they lack depth in automotive engineering knowledge. Time will tell but if you are into electric vehicles this one may be a good option.
 
If you're concerned about these things, you might want to get on the Chatham County government mailing lists for various sorts of information. On Oct. 19, for example, they sent an email titled "2022 State of Chatham County Report" in which they sketch some of the incentives provided for the Chatham County VinFast project. Just FYI, here's an excerpt from that email:

In March 2022, Vietnamese electric vehicle manufacturer VinFast announced it will build its first North American plant at the Triangle Innovation Point in Moncure. And just six months later, semiconductor manufacturer Wolfspeed announced it will build a major fabrication plant at the Chatham-Siler City Advanced Manufacturing Site in Siler City.

“Years of hard work and collaboration by former and current commissioners, county staff, and our economic development team came together to bring these historic investments to our community,” said Howard. “These opportunities will bring job growth to the tune of 9,000 new positions that will benefit our local workers, their families, and our region for generations to come.”

The report also includes updates on activities within the Chatham Comprehensive Plan, countywide initiatives, and achievements within county departments and programs. The 2022 State of Chatham County Report is posted on the Chatham County Website: www.chathamcountync.gov/stateofthecounty.

VinFast Incentives Agreement
Also at the October 17th meeting, the Board unanimously approved the $4 billion incentives agreement for VinFast after holding a public hearing. The project expects to create approximately 7,500 full time equivalent jobs at an average wage exceeding or equal to that of the median average wage for Chatham County by December 31, 2027.
According to the agreement, the County will make annual performance-based cash incentive grants to the company for 20 years equal to a declining percentage of actual increased property taxes paid. Performance would be measured by the creation of eligible jobs:
• 90% in years 1-4
• 80% in years 5-8
• 75% in years 9-11
• 60% in years 12-15
• 50% in years 16-20

In lieu of providing land to VinFast, the County would make cash, performance-based, payments over a period of years using increased property taxes to reimburse the company for its costs in acquiring land for the project.
• Payments will coincide with the initiation of the Business Incentive Grant.
• Once land acquisition payments total the cost, the County’s obligation to make the payments will end.

Planning and site development are currently underway. VinFast broke ground this fall and aims to start manufacturing and production at the facility by 2024.
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I found the amounts involved and the kinds of incentive, in some cases, to be a bit surprising. I suppose I shouldn't have. It may in fact be a good deal over time for the county and for workers in it. As my wife said, that land was just sitting there unused and pretty much of a mess. Hard to tell how things will come out.
 
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Bezep1 said:
They reviewed a pre production unit.
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And were repeatedly told that all they required to be market ready was a few software tweaks. Reminds me of the old line, "That's OK will fix it in the software" when referring to bad hardware design.

I know I won't be buying one, but then I am not a real believer in electric cars, which only push the pollution back to the power plant.
 
noway2 said:
And were repeatedly told that all they required to be market ready was a few software tweaks. Reminds me of the old line, "That's OK will fix it in the software" when referring to bad hardware design.

I know I won't be buying one, but then I am not a real believer in electric cars, which only push the pollution back to the power plant.
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Fixed In Next Release is not a way to go through life.
 
Me. said:
Nailed it.... your post was almost exactly a year ago.


View attachment 595758

View attachment 595760
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Damn, I was right about something.

I should buy a PowerBall ticket this weekend.

I should add I've also seen where they are cutting the prices on their EV's currently selling or rather not selling in CA of all places. Something like they had > 800 EVs that have been sitting and not moving in CA alone.

Doesn't mean anything, just another 'hmmm' moment.
 
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Bezep1 said:
They're figuring out they aren't selling. They're a fad.
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Not only that, from what I have read the product is of poor quality. I think the links may be in this thread, but there were some reviews of the dog and pony show that the company put on. The short description is that it is a company town (think back to the Railroads in our history) run by an oligarch resulting in a product produced accordance with the highest of Communism standards.
 
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