5320.20 drama

They rejected [OMB No. 1140-0010 (12/31/2012) Last revised 2003] and accepted the most recent one I could find [OMB No. 1140-0010 (12/31/2023) Last revised 2019]
 
Catfish said:
They rejected [OMB No. 1140-0010 (12/31/2012) Last revised 2003] and accepted the most recent one I could find [OMB No. 1140-0010 (12/31/2023) Last revised 2019]
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I need to look at a new one. Mine says Revised Oct 2019…but has 10/31/22 in the top right.

It’s so weird. I’ve had others get rejected for using a modified form, when I got approved for sending the exact same one.

It’s also frustrating when it says you can send a letter in lieu, and when you do they send a blank form back for you to fill out. 🙄. (Or that’s what I’ve heard people report back as their experience)
 
BigWaylon said:
I need to look at a new one. Mine says Revised Oct 2019…but has 10/31/22 in the top right.

It’s so weird. I’ve had others get rejected for using a modified form, when I got approved for sending the exact same one.

It’s also frustrating when it says you can send a letter in lieu, and when you do they send a blank form back for you to fill out. 🙄. (Or that’s what I’ve heard people report back as their experience)
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I’ve looked at the new one and compared it to the one I’ve been using. Most of the changes are adding or removing capital letters. For example…

Transporting to (number, street, city, county, state and zip code)

Was changed to:

Transporting To (Number, street, city, county, State and ZIP code)

They also added a 1b blank for email address.

And the firearm info has a new instruction (the second item in parentheses) along with adding the a-g that is mentioned in that new instruction:

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I’ve updated mine to include most of the changes.
 
BigWaylon said:
...
And the firearm info has a new instruction (the second item in parentheses) along with adding the a-g that is mentioned in that new instruction:

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You think we should tell them that "Machinegun" should be "Machine Gun"?
 
Houston, we have a problem.

But it’s not the one I expected.

They’re questioning measurements. Measurements they’ve approved for 5+ years in a row, on the exact same form, with no questions being asked.

I’ll update with more info once I get it straightened out. 🙄
 
When I questioned what they were questioning (measurements on 5320.20 not matching F1/F4…as I submit what I’m actually transporting, not how it was originally approved), I got this reply:

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So I guess I’ll hand-sign a letter to provide an additional config for one, and just delete the other (which is an AOW and doesn’t need to be on there anyway). I’ll send new forms directly to her once I get home from work today.
 
Ok, here’s what went down today…Wednesday.

(Reminder, I emailed these forms in on Saturday; a single 10-page PDF)

Email from ATF contractor:

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Note: I’ve submitted those exact same measurements every single time I’ve ever filled out a form. I’ve never actually submitted the measurements from the F1/F4 for either of these firearms.

My reply:

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Her reply:

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My answer:

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In the meantime, I got another email from a different person. I’m assuming he got either one or both of the other forms:

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When I got home from work, I deleted one firearm from my forms. It’s an AOW, so it’s not even required. I just had it on the form because I had room. I also wrote a very short letter requesting an alternate configuration be added for the SBR in question. I sent the letter plus forms for 2024 and 2025. I decided to go ahead and send the ‘25 forms just to save time later.
 
This is somewhat crazy as I'm pretty sure we NFA owners are NOT required to keep guns in the original configuration they were registered in, nor are we obligated to inform them if they change.

Then again... AFT....
 
JohnFreeman said:
This is somewhat crazy as I'm pretty sure we NFA owners are NOT required to keep guns in the original configuration they were registered in, nor are we obligated to inform them if they change.

Then again... AFT....
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Yep

But if you remember what started this thread…

They didn’t question when I put 5.7 down for an SBR that’s registered as 5.56…but rejected some of the forms the same one being filed as .50 because it was too big of a difference. That nonsense is 100% made-up. Either it’s the same or it’s not…and it shouldn’t matter.
 
Having a form rejected, or even questioned, after having the exact same form approved for multiple years, is just frustrating.

At least they haven’t argued I can’t use the form I created. Well, they haven’t argued it with me yet. The day that happens I’ll have to increase by number of forms 4x. Unless I go with the “see attached list” method. And I’m not sure if they still accept that or not.
 
They're pure brain-turned-off checklisters. Show them what they expect to see and they'll approve the form. Ask them to make a judgement call and they will disapprove because it's the safe thing to do. Just stop thinking and spoonfeed them for the approval.
 
Just downloaded the form and it shows this:
OMB No. 1140-0010 (01/31/2026) :D
U.S. Department of Justice
Edit: Received my approval on this exact form under two weeks.
 
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Catfish said:
They're pure brain-turned-off checklisters. Show them what they expect to see and they'll approve the form. Ask them to make a judgement call and they will disapprove because it's the safe thing to do. Just stop thinking and spoonfeed them for the approval.
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That’s what I did after getting the email…kinda.

They wanted me to change the forms to match the registry. Which I wasn’t going to do. Because that would put me out of state with a permission slip that didn’t match the firearm in my possession.

So just like I did with the 5.56/5.7/.50 issue, I wrote and signed a letter adding an alternate configuration. That’s just not something that’s required by law, or has been needed in the past. Consistently inconsistent.
 
BigWaylon said:
.............. rejected some of the forms the same one being filed as .50 because it was too big of a difference. That nonsense is 100% made-up
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Yeah, that is just ridiculous. Who are they asking advice from, the janitor?


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So I'm having a weird issue with a 5320.20 I submitted. Basically I submitted two forms (1 & 2) on 9/11/23, same exact info and SBRs, just different "To" addresses. Received approval for #2 about a month later, never heard anything about #1.

So a few weeks go by and I get my last F1 SBR approved so I send in two more forms (3 & 4) with the same kind of info as the first two on 10/31/23, figured I'll throw in #1 again in case it got overlooked. Received approval for #3 & #4 about 3 weeks later, but again no #1 (they came in on Saturday).

What should I do here?
 
This morning I get another reply from the second contractor. He ended up with the other two forms.

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I’m going to wait until I see if the first one processes all 10 forms before I put my next plan in motion. 😎
 
After reading all of this, I am curious. Do SOTs need to file this same form when moving inventory across state lines? For instance, if I were to bring a suppressor and a machine gun to an agency in South Carolina, would I need to fill out the 5320.20 or could I just bring it? Assuming law letter and all other items were done.
 
S&Wtinkerer said:
After reading all of this, I am curious. Do SOTs need to file this same form when moving inventory across state lines? For instance, if I were to bring a suppressor and a machine gun to an agency in South Carolina, would I need to fill out the 5320.20 or could I just bring it? Assuming law letter and all other items were done.
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I’m not gonna pretend to know that one. However, Silencers (and AOWs) don’t require the form.

I bet @wired knows the answer since he’s a SOT. Can’t remember who else on here is.
 
The Form 2 indicates the 5320.20 is not required for a dealer with a valid SOT.

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6:18a:

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6:25a:

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I resent them before I saw the second email. No mention of altered forms not be accepted. Now we wait…maybe that reply comes later today, or maybe approved forms show up (in 10 separate envelopes) a week or two from now. 🤪
 
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So since I have a C&R no paperwork needed per this.....
 
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7:58a:

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I did reply asking if I could send my 2025 forms directly to her on 1/1/24, since she said I needed to “wait until next year”.

ETA: the reality is I’d like to ask her where in the regulations there’s anything to support her statement that I have to wait. I see no timeframe mentioned in the regulations or instructions on the form. But…I’ll resist.
 
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JohnFreeman said:
View attachment 703960



So since I have a C&R no paperwork needed per this.....
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You know, thats a good point. I would think not. Since no one really cares about 5320.20's anyway and theyre really only brought up in case you commit a crime in another state it seems to me you wouldn't get grief for interstate transport if you held a C&R. It is an FFL.
 
^^^

It's a case of "what the ATF wrote probably isn't what they meant to write" but it's published so it would be hard to argue otherwise. If they meant 07/02 they should have written 07/02.

They need a copy editor, but it's more amusing the way they have it.
 
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BigWaylon said:
7:58a:

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is I’d like to ask her where in the regulations there’s anything to support her statement that I have to wait. I see no timeframe mentioned in the regulations or instructions on the form. But…I’ll resist.
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Probably wise, at least until you complete this round of paperwork.

The good news is you've gone from "Mrs Taylor Burker" to a first name basis, so you're gaining traction within the bureaucracy!
 
These forms are being reviewed by contractors. Beaurocrats for hire. They arent even actual .gov employees.
 
Catfish said:
These forms are being reviewed by contractors. Beaurocrats for hire. They arent even actual .gov employees.
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That's probably the only reason BW got any sort of response in the first place.

God forbid he should "ask the experts"
 
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JohnFreeman said:
I'd put one on each sheet and bury them in paper.
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The first instruction on the form says:

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So I’m going to take my modified form and delete the header and footer info, removing anything to indicate it’s their form…and maybe remove all the border lines.

Then I’m going to copy/paste that instruction at the top, and add a statement this is not an altered form, this is a letter in lieu that contains all the pertinent info.

Make them refuse that version that follows the instructions on the form itself.

If they reject it as well, I’ll just carry a Ron Swanson permit, or a copy of the constitution and never file another one.

I don’t mind burying them in paperwork…but I don’t want to have to add that many more pages to my folders. 🤣
 
I like your idea.

Or get a C&R and forget the whole process.

Imagine people at ATF being paid to process these forms, that NOBODY, especially the ATF gives a rats backside about. They're like the letter to the sheriff indicating you purchased an NFA item. Steve Bizell probably has a file cabinet full of these unopened notes every year which he too, doesn't care about and wished he didn't receive because they're a pain to store and then shred .
 
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JohnFreeman said:
I like your idea.

Or get a C&R and forget the whole process.

Imagine people at ATF being paid to process these forms, that NOBODY, especially the ATF gives a rats backside about. They're like the letter to the sheriff indicating you purchased an NFA item. Steve Bizell probably has a file cabinet full of these unopened notes every year which he too, doesn't care about and wished he didn't receive because they're a pain to store and then shred .
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And in my case, intentionally wanting to do 4x the amount of work. 🙄
 
Maybe I’ll submit separate forms for every one of my stamps, including silencers, for more than the 10 normal states…just to see how many envelopes I can collect. And I’ll submit them for one month at a time, so 12 for every firearm for every state. 🤣
 
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