Ok....how about a “CFF 3-Gun Mini Camp”? Limit to 10-15 shooters, CFF members only...all with the understanding that this “match” is purely for learning how to shoot a 3-Gun? Run 3-4 simple stages? Take our time to coach, compare gear, talk about stage prep?
who’d be up for something like that?
Just promise when I show up the names not changed to "Old Fart "
CF
And that's why I'd advocate for a team approach so if somebody just wants to use his shotgun, he's welcome to do so.A lot complaining about having to load a shotgun. I may be wrong but I have heard many on this forum proclaim the shotgun the best self defense gun for stopping power.
My thoughts:
If you have a "normal" 3-gun type match, it will become an equipment/technique match. Good shooters with good gear will show up and do what they do.
From sifting through the responses here on CFF, it looks like several from CFF would do this if it was a practical "fun" match that utilized gear they already own for home defense. Something very newbie friendly and practical. I think this route would encourage more of the participation that you are looking for from forum members, newbies, and lady shooters.
If you go this route, I would suggest limiting distance with the rifle. 3-25 yards or so. Its a practical distance for a homeowner, and its fairly easy for almost anybody to go to an indoor range and get a 25 yard zero on their carbine. Not as easy for the newbies to get dope/drop figured out for distance shooting.
From a practical "homeowner" standpoint, the stages can have low round counts and no mag changes... Easy and fast to score. Just shooting....
This video from the All New CFF You Tube Channel is a good example of a practical, defensive 3- gun stage done with a low round count for newbies.
30 yards from start to finish... No mag changes... No shotgun loading... Just shooting....
That's good, because I'm slow.This is one of the reasons why I wanted to go with "ammo restrictions" vs. par time. We're emphasizing hits over speed. Now, it IS a game, so solid hits done quickly will win out over solid hits done slowly, BUT, we're trying to eliminate the 'accuracy by volume' mindset.
And that's why I'd advocate for a team approach so if somebody just wants to use his shotgun, he's welcome to do so.
Gas, gun, ammo, water, snacks and entry fee.....the ammo now is the issue, but I did 2 handgun matches, and if I can afford that, I think most can. It was a LOT of fun, and I hope to do more. People will lend a rifle, I've had them say so, when I get ready to do a 2 gun.I have always thought it looked like a ton of fun but it never looked like something I could afford
You will. I'm the slowest woman on the planet, ask the guys. Just go for it.I also have some pretty serious mobility limitations. Really bad back injuries paired with breaking my leg and foot a few years back have made it so that I really can't run. My life would need to depend on it. I think I would still enjoy it though if I had a good opportunity. I couldn't be competitive but I bet I would still have fun.
A lot complaining about having to load a shotgun. I may be wrong but I have heard many on this forum proclaim the shotgun the best self defense gun for stopping power.
I have never gotten to shoot any kind of competition. I have always thought it looked like a ton of fun but it never looked like something I could afford. Money if absolutely the biggest hurdle for me. A chance to do a 2-gun would help. I could definitely eliminate the shotgun shooting and I don't think I would feel like I were missing out on anything.
I also have some pretty serious mobility limitations. Really bad back injuries paired with breaking my leg and foot a few years back have made it so that I really can't run. My life would need to depend on it. I think I would still enjoy it though if I had a good opportunity. I couldn't be competitive but I bet I would still have fun.
If I could show up to a two gun and run it with rimfire that would probably be just as much fun for me and it would make it something I could afford. I feel like that's not how it works though.
Years ago, I read an article in a shooting magazine, I think it was American Rifleman but not sure looking back through the mists of time. But, it has stuck with me for years and set the stage for my initial interest in 3g. Match was fairly simple. Each squad was a team of 4 shooters- 1 designated marksman, 2 riflemen, 1 shotgun guy. The way the match worked was pretty simple, the rifle guys set up an "ambush" at a set of moving targets. Nobody but the DM could shoot and he had to engage and hit the first difficult target, after that it was fire at will. While they were doing their thing, the shotgun guy was working his way through a shotgun course that included booby traps. The rifle guys could not see what the shotgun guy was doing. The shotgun guy was simulating "stealing transport to exfil the area for the riflemen" and if he was "killed" by the traps, the riflemen had a penalty cuz they didn't have a ride to the "finish". Score was based on targets successfully engaged by all on the team and time elapsed. According to the article, there was more than one rifle team that found out they didn't have a "ride" and were penalized time.
That team aspect is what has my interest more than run N gun as an individual. Everybody has strengths and weaknesses, to be successful at a team match, each team member has to be assigned to the part that plays to their strengths. A team match could be setup so that all anybody ever has to shoot at any one match is one arm. Each shooter should bring arms to be any part of a team. Teams could be squaded up prior or mix n match by a draw. A team can be two or more shooters depending on the stage designs.
If this were to ever catch on, I'd be in.
Around where I live I would be competing against the best the military has to offer!
Truth.As long as they aren’t competitive shooters you’ll probably beat them.
Ill split gas with ya.Hell I may make the trek up there for a match like that.
See my thread about an upcoming “mini camp”I would love to get into some this, but wouldn't even know where to start.
I loved shooting 3 gun with the Asheville Practical Shooting Association some years back, when they had 4 per year. For whatever reason, attendance lacking I suppose, they are down to 2. Sometimes it was rained out too. It was great fun with some great guys, it just got too expensive, even shooting cheap 7.62x39 and aluminum 9mm Federal was about $80 with the round count and entrance fee, likely more than double that now. I always shot open, because of shooting a Vepr 12 with trigger, magazine upgrades, and a red dot, same with my Vepr rifle with similar improvements, it's what I already had, though I shot against the race guns. I didn't care, I wasn't there to win, I was building skills and having fun. My belt and ammo carriers were all cheap military surplus, they did the job for not much money. I would probably come if it wasn't too expensive.I'm leaning towards maybe NOT having an "Open" division. BUT....that would certainly limit the appeal to the high speed guys that are more likely to show up more than once.
I'd like to see iron sights in a separate class than the red dot (even with no magnification). Irons are not really competitive with red dots. Ask me how I know. LOL.Here are the divisions I’m considering:
Open - anything goes
Practical
Rifle: .223/7.62x39 or similar at MD discretion, single optic
Pistol - any non-magnum, RDS OK, 140mm magazine length
Shotgun - tube fed, Max 8+1 capacity
Factory / AKA the @RR Division
Rifle: .223/7.62x39, Iron Sights or single non-magnified optic, Max 30rd magazine
Pistol: Max 15 rounds (loaded, actual capacity could vary)
Shotgun: tube fed, Max 6+1
2-Gun
Practical rules, no shotgun
Youth (16 and under)
Run what ya brung!
Come shoot a ZSA-USA match with us, that is exactly how we roll.Essentially I'd like to see a match where you can show up with an AR with 30 round mags. A G17, and a 6 or 7 round pump or autoloader and be competitive. Seems like the sport has gone to "let me not ever have to reload on a stage, ever."