Diversified Machine

Wait till they start working on Polymer 80.
 
Update from a guy on ARF that spent more time on this than I would’ve…

Update: I got a call back from some one at the St Paul division office. I will try to get everything that we talked about in here, but it probably won’t be in order or word for word.

First things first. The agent stated that he talked with the lawyers at their division office and the guidance he was given was that they were not going to pursue the end users so long as they were obviously trying to follow the law. He further stated that as far as their division lawyers we concerned, if you had an approved form 1, they were accepting that as proof that you made a reasonable attempt to follow the law.

I broached the issue of the letter implying that items purchased from DM possibly should have been transferred on a form 4. He didn’t confirm or deny a position on how potentially regulated items should have been transferred. He just restated that as long as you had an approved form 1, they were not going to press the issue.

I politely told him that vaguely worded letter that appeared to be a “shake out the couch cushions” type of operation like this was a reason that ATF struggles to get support from the law abiding gun owners of this country. He stated that this was meant to try to shake out people that were trying to circumvent the system and are not able to legally possess firearms. He also made the statement that the letter came from another division, and was likely sent to everyone that may have been a customer of DM. It didn’t seem like he knew who purchased what, and if the division that sent the letter knows who purchased what, he didn’t give any type of indication either way.

I asked about getting something in writing from them that a form 1 is acceptable. He said he would take it to their division lawyers. He also said that he totally understood why I would ask for something in writing and he would do the same if he were in my shoes. I asked what he thought the chances were that they would give me something in writing. He said probably 50/50 and I should check in if I don’t hear from him in a couple of days.

I haven’t received a letter, and nothing is showing in my FedEx app as far as one being in route…just some boots from Academy.
 
BigWaylon said:
Update from a guy on ARF that spent more time on this than I would’ve…

Update: I got a call back from some one at the St Paul division office. I will try to get everything that we talked about in here, but it probably won’t be in order or word for word.

First things first. The agent stated that he talked with the lawyers at their division office and the guidance he was given was that they were not going to pursue the end users so long as they were obviously trying to follow the law. He further stated that as far as their division lawyers we concerned, if you had an approved form 1, they were accepting that as proof that you made a reasonable attempt to follow the law.

I broached the issue of the letter implying that items purchased from DM possibly should have been transferred on a form 4. He didn’t confirm or deny a position on how potentially regulated items should have been transferred. He just restated that as long as you had an approved form 1, they were not going to press the issue.

I politely told him that vaguely worded letter that appeared to be a “shake out the couch cushions” type of operation like this was a reason that ATF struggles to get support from the law abiding gun owners of this country. He stated that this was meant to try to shake out people that were trying to circumvent the system and are not able to legally possess firearms. He also made the statement that the letter came from another division, and was likely sent to everyone that may have been a customer of DM. It didn’t seem like he knew who purchased what, and if the division that sent the letter knows who purchased what, he didn’t give any type of indication either way.

I asked about getting something in writing from them that a form 1 is acceptable. He said he would take it to their division lawyers. He also said that he totally understood why I would ask for something in writing and he would do the same if he were in my shoes. I asked what he thought the chances were that they would give me something in writing. He said probably 50/50 and I should check in if I don’t hear from him in a couple of days.

I haven’t received a letter, and nothing is showing in my FedEx app as far as one being in route…just some boots from Academy.
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“Talking to ATF has made things much clearer, reduced infringement and enhanced freedom and liberty for all Americans.”
- nobody, ever
 
Lemme tell you this ATF story.

So earlier this week they call the shop. "we are doing a trace, and the individual XXX-XXXX bought a sig 365 and the serial number is incorrect. So we are all like "damn, we messed up......" check the A&D book, well......it's the same as she said it was on the multiple form we sent in, and it's the same on the 4473. WE call her back....tell her that. "Its not correct, that is NOT a Sig serial number..... well.... I don't know what to tell her. So we decide to call the customer, and have him read the serial number off the gun. He says wait....(as he pulls over). Reads serial number. Same on the 4473. Call her back..... "Its not the correct serial number, its not a Sig serial number". (WTAF) . So we call him back AGAIN and tell him to send a PICTURE of the serial number. She finally believes me. She "THOUGHT" it was an incorrect serial number because it started with a different number than usual?!?! I read an email from her later.....I don't think English was her first language.....it was horrible.

That went on over about 5 hours of back and forth. For nothing.
 
Some people got in person visits and were asked to turn over parts not build yet and left with their form 1 cans, verbally told they were OK. Some of the same people were told it was because of the center marking for where holes would go.

Prior to this, other individuals were targeted but they looked specifically for cratus47/95 kit purchasers. I think the pre-drilled monocore was by Zmachine, but was made for DM tubes (?).

Former DM owner's family got letters (linking it to stamps.com account that was used for personal stuff as well) and other people got letters but didn't get shipments (indicating it was website database). Three local field offices were told by Detroit office they didn't know what parts were sent to people. There were 4500 people targeted.

ATF send an email to one person involved telling them they are OK if they have a form 1. This conflicts with previous rulings, if the DM parts were silencer parts you can't make them legal via form 1.

Most people should be choosing between do nothing, and preemptively sending a letter with form 1 copy.
 
BigWaylon said:
... I haven’t received one.
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Your order was before he setup an account with stamps.com for shipping labels. When other offices have contacted the Detroit office they were told they didn't have order records, only email/addresses. Likely limits their chances to do anything other than get some parts voluntarily turned it, or to compare it with known felons and target a small group of the 4500 to follow up with.

Edit: some is claiming they got a letter from a email order on form1 board now.
 
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Sneakymedic said:
Lemme tell you this ATF story.

So earlier this week they call the shop. "we are doing a trace, and the individual XXX-XXXX bought a sig 365 and the serial number is incorrect. So we are all like "damn, we messed up......" check the A&D book, well......it's the same as she said it was on the multiple form we sent in, and it's the same on the 4473. WE call her back....tell her that. "Its not correct, that is NOT a Sig serial number..... well.... I don't know what to tell her. So we decide to call the customer, and have him read the serial number off the gun. He says wait....(as he pulls over). Reads serial number. Same on the 4473. Call her back..... "Its not the correct serial number, its not a Sig serial number". (WTAF) . So we call him back AGAIN and tell him to send a PICTURE of the serial number. She finally believes me. She "THOUGHT" it was an incorrect serial number because it started with a different number than usual?!?! I read an email from her later.....I don't think English was her first language.....it was horrible.

That went on over about 5 hours of back and forth. For nothing.
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Never forget the manufacturer creates the serial number out of the thin air and is recorded in the A&D log when the receiver is created.

I personally just do a excel spreadsheet doing a 10000 and dragging down to another 10000. Lol
 
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I can’t promise the legitimacy of this info, but it was posted on the Form 1 boards:

Ridenour, Swanson, and Logan have all plead (or are pleading) guilty. The case is nearly over, and I expect they will all be sentenced and remanded to prison in the next month or so.

Logan filed a plea agreement on 3/28/22 and plead guilty to one charge of Conspiracy to Manufacture and Deal in Silencers under 18 USC 371 and 18 USC 922(a)(1)(A). He has agreed that he may be imprisoned for up to 5 years and pay a $250k fine. 1:22-cr-20031 (Dkt. 31). The prosecutor has agreed to seek roughly half of that time and not seek a fine. Note that the judge has the final say in terms of the sentence and fines imposed.

Swanson filed a plea agreement on 4/20/22 with the same terms as Logan. 1:22-cr-20031 (Dkt. 41).

Ridenour has consented to enter a guilty plea but has to appear at a hearing (scheduled for May 9) before he can do so. 1:22-cr-20031 (Dkt. 37). We don’t know what the terms of Ridenour’s plea are yet, but they will likely be the same as or more severe than for Logan and Swanson since Ridenour was charged with additional felonies (e.g., making an illegal SBR) and has been characterized as the conspiracy ringleader. Ridenour is the only defendant who did not rely on a public defender.

To the extent people were hoping for someone to fight the ATF, this will not be the case.
 
Some folks in my area have memories of a case of abc's questionable tactics that occurred a number of years ago. Even before that unfortunate episode, folks just wanted to be left alone, and that attitude has had an influence on local and State wide politics.

Recently one of the local sheriff's had addressed how their department responds to requests from abc's for their support in visiting someone that they would like to talk to. He clarified State laws regarding firearms accessories, as well as providing assistance to abc's.

Video length is 10:54

 
Rotty said:
Some folks in my area have memories of a case of abc's questionable tactics that occurred a number of years ago. Even before that unfortunate episode, folks just wanted to be left alone, and that attitude has had an influence on local and State wide politics.

Recently one of the local sheriff's had addressed how their department responds to requests from abc's for their support in visiting someone that they would like to talk to. He clarified State laws regarding firearms accessories, as well as providing assistance to abc's.

Video length is 10:54

Click to expand...

They dont need the sheriffs help in visiting who they want to visit.
 
It could seem that way. However, they sort of shot themselves in the foot as a result of the Ruby Ridge fiasco.
 
Rotty said:
It could seem that way. However, they sort of shot themselves in the foot as a result of the Ruby Ridge fiasco.
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Wait until they start confiscating braced pistols and charging owners with NFA offenses for their unregistered SBR's. Gonna get real. The ATF is back.
 
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Can not discount anything from those folks in Sodom on the Potomac. They are globalist. They have their dead lines to meet and it matters not to them if, to meet those dead lines, they act in a less than honest way. I have heard it said, on many occasions, that there are a lot of people there that have plenty of blood on their hand already.

Their primary weapon is fear. The use of an abc in instilling or reinforcing that sense of fear of what may happen to them, family, livelihood can causes many to hesitate. To hesitate is to die!

Consider that they used a virus, with a 99.998% survival rate for an average healthy person, to terrify the world.

I am the new guy here. I will say his, we should NOT be afraid. We should be respected!
 
Posted on ARF yesterday:

Randomly thought about this a few minutes ago and did a google search.

Chris Ridenour plead guilty yesterday. His plea agreement basically said that Diversified Machine was a full blown silencer manufacturing operation operated out of a pole barn at his house.

The ATF could have been waiting for this to restart their efforts to hassle DM customers. Who knows, just my own speculation there. Makes sense to me as they now have the guy behind DM saying it was a silencer manufacturing operation.

https://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw-bay-city/2022/05/michigan-man-pleads-to-federal-crime-of-selling-1-million-in-illegal-gun-silencers-online.html
 
Guess they had enough heat applied that they had to fold. What a shame. Be curious to see the final details of the plea deals.
 
I would love for somebody to prove this to be false…but word on the street is Chris was going to be sentenced today. Instead of letting that happen, he killed himself last night. 😢
 
This is why I never even in jest suggest people break federal firearms laws. I always get called a boot licker or whatever but they'll ruin your life over 200 bucks.
 
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Feel bad for his family, always wonder about the motivation. In this case I wonder of it was as much economic as anything, with no sentencing maybe the government can’t take funds from the family. No way to know what was going through his head, sad ending for sure.
 
oh that's awful

and those jerks will put a mark in the win column


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5 years? That’s it? Totally unrelated but federal sentences are in months, so 60 months. If it was life with no parole I can sort of understand…kind of.

But you earn good time in the feds and can get like 60 days (it’s somewhere around 50-60 days) of good time every 12 months so he could’ve done barely over 4 years and got out. Geez

F the ATF
 
11B CIB said:
5 years? That’s it? Totally unrelated but federal sentences are in months, so 60 months. If it was life with no parole I can sort of understand…kind of.

But you earn good time in the feds and can get like 60 days (it’s somewhere around 50-60 days) of good time every 12 months so he could’ve done barely over 4 years and got out. Geez

F the ATF
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You're forgetting the fact that they ruined his life, took away his property, and somewhat limited his future prospects with a felony conviction.
you never know what somebody's breaking point is.

Cape Fear said:
Chris was obviously a man of peace. Once the decision was made to exit this existence, many others in his situation would have determined to bring some traveling companions on the journey.
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taking other people along seems to be a favorite tactic of the left. he probably was not on that side of the aisle.
 
wired said:
This is why I never even in jest suggest people break federal firearms laws. I always get called a boot licker or whatever but they'll ruin your life over 200 bucks.
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I mean, they'll gas pregnant women and 25 children before burning them to death over laws the "think may have been broken". Preferring to do that over just walking in the doors invited and checking first.
They'll shoot a mom holding her baby then shoot her young son, both with a 7.62 sniper rifle because her old man cut too much barrel off a shotgun, after they themselves convinced him to do it!
And, they will get away with it and call themselves heroes. They won't feel a shred of guilt. They'll get awards.

Yes, I am going to go ahead and closely follow all firearm laws to the very best of my ability. They can call me a boot licker, too, but it's not a hill I am willing to die on. Don't want my girlfriend to be brutally murdered because I want to "stick it to the man". She doesn't even care for guns. The grey areas are just not worth it. Just my opinion.
 
11B CIB said:
5 years? That’s it? Totally unrelated but federal sentences are in months, so 60 months. If it was life with no parole I can sort of understand…kind of.

But you earn good time in the feds and can get like 60 days (it’s somewhere around 50-60 days) of good time every 12 months so he could’ve done barely over 4 years and got out. Geez

F the ATF
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Might have wanted to leave his family with life insurance money instead of legal bills.
 
DrScaryGuy said:
You're forgetting the fact that they ruined his life, took away his property, and somewhat limited his future prospects with a felony conviction.
you never know what somebody's breaking point is.


taking other people along seems to be a favorite tactic of the left. he probably was not on that side of the aisle.
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I’m not forgetting any of that, but if the Feds “somewhat” limited his future, he sealed the deal. I bet as a 2A “martyr” he could’ve gotten a gig doing something for the cause afterwards and worked to overturn his case or plead for a pardon if we get another conservative President.

And you’re right, no way to know what their breaking point is. I just wish he could’ve /would’ve held out.
 
GaryS said:
Many life insurance policies have an exclusion for suicide.
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The ones we have/have had had a time after buying the policy that had a suicide exclusion and then they paid for death by suicide after that. At least one of them was two years.

@tanstaafl72555 - any comments on suicide exclusions for life insurance policies.
 
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cubrock said:
The ones we have/have had had a time after buying the policy that had a suicide exclusion and then they paid for death by suicide after that. At least one of them was two years.

@tanstaafl72555 - any comments on suicide exclusions for life insurance policies.
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all policies have a 2 year exclusion for suicide. after that, in NC, exclusions are illegal. No one has them and you could force them to pay even if they did have one.
Matter of fact, you can lie on the app and say, be a smoker with emphysema and heart disease and cancer, but if they issue the policy, they can deny coverage for 2 years, but after that, they have to pay.
 
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What a tragedy all the way around. Please guys, don’t off yourself. It’s not a good solution. Reach out to someone if you’re struggling.

Prayers for his family and friends.

Nate
 
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