For those who take offense at calling unbelief "irrational"

Not sure where at all in this entire epic thread has anyone shown a lack of understanding of anything and attributed it as evidence of God. That's stretching a bit. But if a meme war is going to be your final shots to try to "win" then...ok.


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5fd13a7694562d84bf92b25add9a02d5--religion-memes-anti-religion.jpg
 
B00ger said:
Not sure where at all in this entire epic thread has anyone shown a lack of understanding of anything and attributed it as evidence of God. That's stretching a bit. But if a meme war is going to be your final shots to try to "win" then...ok.


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There is no winning anything. The meme below sums it up in a "logical" way. If god existed, we would "know" it and faith and belief would not be needed.
if-god-really-existed-there-would-be-only-one-religion-16211644.png
 
rogue said:
There is no winning anything. The meme below sums it up in a "logical" way. If god existed, we would "know" it and faith and belief would not be needed.
if-god-really-existed-there-would-be-only-one-religion-16211644.png
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Yeah, sure it does. A meme proves it.


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You must enjoy it or you wouldn't keep coming back. You have doubts, you are intrigued and can't walk away. Admit it.

Surely you read the memes? I mean, they are memes, but they are true. You cannot deny it.
 
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rogue said:
You must enjoy it or you wouldn't keep coming back. You have doubts, you are intrigued and can't walk away. Admit it.

Surely you read the memes? I mean, they are memes, but they are true. You cannot deny it.
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Yes, I can deny them. Each meme is just a simplified perspective that ignores actual doctrine and philosophy in an attempt to claim truth without effort.

And it isn't that I enjoy it, I enjoy the debate. Also, as a minister it is kinda my job.

And no, I don't have doubts. I have questions, but no doubts.


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B00ger said:
I've got three kids 10 and under. I'm used to it.


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Speaking of kids, I hope you bring yours up with an open mind and don't brainwash them before they have a chance to develop their own views.

I have two of the best children a man could ask for. They were brought up 100% absent religion, god and parental brainwashing of an kind.

They are not bigots, not homophobic, do not fear people from other races and/or religions, they don't hate anyone from another county because there has never been a reason to. Their parents NEVER put beliefs in their head.

They were also free to choose a religion if they wanted/needed one when they were older. I would have ZERO problems if they wanted to be Muslim, Catholic or Christian.

Funny thing, both in their early twenties now, see no need for religion.

They don't blame the devil when bad things happen. They own their own mistakes. They take credit for their own accomplishments and shortcomings.

In other words, they own their life and mind. It's a wonderful thing, and I could not be more proud.
 
rogue said:
Speaking of kids, I hope you bring yours up with an open mind and don't brainwash them before they have a chance to develop their own views.

I have two of the best children a man could ask for. They were brought up 100% absent religion, god and parental brainwashing of an kind.

They are not bigots, not homophobic, do not fear people from other races and/or religions, they don't hate anyone from another county because there has never been a reason to. Their parents NEVER put beliefs in their head.

They were also free to choose a religion if they wanted/needed one when they were older. I would have ZERO problems if they wanted to be Muslim, Catholic or Christian.

Funny thing, both in their early twenties now, see no need for religion.

They don't blame the devil when bad things happen. They own their own mistakes. They take credit for their own accomplishments and shortcomings.

In other words, they own their life and mind. It's a wonderful thing, and I could not be more proud.
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Good for you. I will raise my kids as I see fit. Your approval or input is not required or requested.


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B00ger said:
Good for you. I will raise my kids as I see fit. Your approval or input is not required or requested.


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No problem. I was raised that way. It took me years to grow out of it and realize the truth.
 
B00ger said:
Your truth you mean.


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Exactly! My truth. Not something that was fed to me before the age of reason. I was rebellious enough to get out of the cult.

Religion would not exist today without the indoctrination of children.
 
rogue said:
Exactly! My truth. Not something that was fed to me before the age of reason. I was rebellious enough to get out of the cult.

Religion would not exist today without the indoctrination of children.
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Probably the most ignorant thing you have said considering many people, including myself, became a Christian at an advanced age. But by all means, continue believing as you wish as you have acknowledged that you alone are the arbiter of reason and truth.


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B00ger said:
Probably the most ignorant thing you have said considering many people, including myself, became a Christian at an advanced age. But by all means, continue believing as you wish as you have acknowledged that you alone are the arbiter of reason and truth.


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Religion would have been obsolete 1500 years ago if not for the indoctrination of children. It EXISTS, so of course you could join ANY religion at any time.

If it did not exist, you would have never thought about it.
 
rogue said:
Religion would have been obsolete 1500 years ago if not for the indoctrination of children. It EXISTS, so of course you could join ANY religion at any time.

If it did not exist, you would have never thought about it.
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Yes, because as Christianity spread through Europe and the world it was only the children that they recruited as believers.


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It spread by the sword....

and the children....

Neither would make me proud.

I've enjoyed the back and forth, but I must retire for the night. Goodnight
 
rogue said:
It spread by the sword....

and the children....

Neither would make me proud.

I've enjoyed the back and forth, but I must retire for the night. Goodnight
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By the sword? You really don't understand anything about the spread of Christianity, do you?

Goodnight, and God bless.


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rogue said:
Exactly! My truth. Not something that was fed to me before the age of reason. I was rebellious enough to get out of the cult.

Religion would not exist today without the indoctrination of children.
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Funny you say that. I wasn't saved until I was 44. No brainwashing for me. I attended Catholic Church until I was 13, then stopped when they decided my mother and I were taking too much of their charity.

It wasn't until I was 44 that I was able to humble myself before God.

Some of us take longer, some shorter.

He accepts all who accept Him and His son.


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rogue said:
There is no winning anything. The meme below sums it up in a "logical" way. If god existed, we would "know" it and faith and belief would not be needed.
if-god-really-existed-there-would-be-only-one-religion-16211644.png
Click to expand...

If you assume that men were not fallen and willingly invented other "gods" in order to escape the true one...... yes. Of course, one would have to have actually READ what you are so knowledgeable about (the bible, which you have studied exhaustively) to know that this is the biblical answer to this nonsense.
 
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Burt Gummer said:
Is that a request?
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Please don't.

Some of us here are epistemological relativists... that is, we believe that even if something has never been demonstrated, it might show up. That is, we believe there MAY be something resembling an intelligent discourse that proceeds from this guy instead of ripping and posting memes so stupidly childish and idiotic a 3 year old could refute them.

ahhhhh..... hope springs eternal in the human breast, I suppose.
 
rogue said:
Exactly! My truth.
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What? "Your" truth???? Really. Truth is relative to your gastronomical and emotional whims?

rogue said:
Not something that was fed to me before the age of reason. I was rebellious enough to get out of the cult.
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The problem with your rejoinders is that none of them are based on "reason" at all, but I don't believe you are bright enough to see it. Either that or your "rebelliousness" includes rebelliousness against logical coherence itself.


rogue said:
Religion would not exist today without the indoctrination of children.
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This is empirically and demonstrably false. There are huge numbers of people who come to faith well after childhood. Stop making stupid claims... Oh wait. Am I asking water to run uphill? Seems so.
 
noway2 said:
Doesn't that pretty much sum it up for everybody?
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If that is so, why then do you argue about ANYTHING? You see, you don't really believe this. You just invoke it to "cover" for an unwillingness to face the implications that acquiescing to the concept of an overarching, binding, trans-everything source of truth (which you appeal to when you make any argument, about anything, to anyone) would logically lead to God. Therefore, people crawfish into this "the truth for me" stuff. They immediately abandon this, though, when someone shortchanges them, or accuses them of behavior they did not do, or anything else about which there is a dispute. THEN they happily acknowledge "truth" which both parties should submit to.

This is an example of why I say our intellects are servants to our wills, and not the other way about.
 
I truly enjoy @rogue and his idea of "dialogue" in here. It is to simply make ignorant, demonstrably false, and sometimes simply idiotic statements and then simply ignore others (not just me, but pointedly me) when he is shown to be frankly full of crap.... on to the next pile of slop and demonstrably false claim.

My experience is that the next forum he goes to will reference this one as him being a champion of enlightened reason in a forest of benighted religious intellectual hermits, where he bravely tried to help us see the light, but our superstitious prejudices simply blinded us from the light of pure reason.

At this point in time I am still confused whether he suffered a whack in the head at 13 which forever arrested his cognitive development and really can't see the nonsense he thinks is witty or whether he is trolling and just doesn't give a damn. My money is on the latter.
 
Fourteen pages of responses and VERY FEW attempts to actually interact with the subject matter.
Admittedly, the village idiot has interrupted any attempt at meaningful dialogue with his shrieking yawps, but even then, it would be nice to have someone other than @noway2 actually interact with the original challenge. (he has been the only person so far to actually address the issue from a skeptic pov.... thanks and kudos to him)

The point is that it is NOT LOGICAL to assume that LOGIC can arise from chance and chaos. Logically, order proceeds from order and design. We even have a "scientific law" for this, called the second law of thermodynamics. Simply stated, it says that in a closed system (a material universe), things never go from a state of LESS ORDER to MORE ORDER, but rather from a state of low entropy(more order) to higher entropy (higher disorder). The entire RELIGION of materialism expects me to believe that chaos, unfocused dead matter and swirling cosmic dust somehow arranged itself (over billions and billions of years, of course!!!) into a complex set of interacting bodily systems controlled by a neural system which MATCHES PERFECTLY the true nature of the cosmos.

Is this logical, or a belief that makes a witch doctor look like a hard nosed scientist, dedicated to empirical proof?

That was the original post
 
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tanstaafl72555 said:
I truly enjoy @rogue where he bravely tried to help us see the light, but our superstitious prejudices simply blinded us from the light of pure reason..
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Finally! Something we can agree on!

I was about to give up...

You may impress a few on this form with your bloviating nonsense, but not me. You're just another religious nut that has to demean others to feel superior.

I can take it, so please continue. If that gets you closer to heaven, I'm all for it.
 
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rogue said:
Finally! Something we can agree on!

I was about to give up...

You may impress a few on this form with your bloviating nonsense, but not me. You're just another religious nut that has to demean others to feel superior.

I can take it, so please continue. If that gets you closer to heaven, I'm all for it.
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Editing my posts is the best you can do, child?
 
rogue said:
Finally! Something we can agree on!

I was about to give up...

You may impress a few on this form with your bloviating nonsense, but not me. You're just another religious nut that has to demean others to feel superior.

I can take it, so please continue. If that gets you closer to heaven, I'm all for it.
Click to expand...

Please re-read this epic thread and count the number of times you as a anti-religious but demeaned believers in an attempt to feel superior.


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