Georgia shooting of a black man

I don't care what your skin color is. If someone swooped around you in traffic, stopped in the middle of the road, got out with a gun and wanted to accuse you of a crime that would be ok? And if you tried to fight your way out of it and got killed it would be self defense on their part?
 
SPST said:
I don't care what your skin color is. If someone swooped around you in traffic, stopped in the middle of the road, got out with a gun and wanted to accuse you of a crime that would be ok? And if you tried to fight your way out of it and got killed it would be self defense on their part?
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If I was on video charging the man with the gun and trying to take it away from him, I think I'd be on legally shaky ground, and I believe no one would care what either of us was thinking or how we felt about each other.
 
Wahoo95 said:
I'd honestly presume the worst these days.
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From Your life's experiences. We all do things from our life's experiences. There are those among us that don't know they do but that doesn't change the fact that we all are a make up of our life's experiences. I have predudices formed from My life's experiences. I don't like things that are pickled. Anything pickled..don't like it. People? I judge them, right or wrong by the way they treat Me. There are folks quick to judge and call awful names that have not one idea about the person they are insulting. There is an option on here that will allow you to Not See things that people write that you don't like. I have used it exactly Once. It works great!
It takes a great effort but try to "overcome" presuming the worst. I try...nope not always successful.


By the way, that judging and calling names bit, had absolutely Nothing to do with you.
 
Wahoo95 said:
I'd be curious to know when that citizens arrest law was adopted in Georgia.
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§ 17-4-60. Grounds for arrest

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

History

Orig. Code 1863, § 4604; Code 1868, § 4627; Code 1873, § 4724; Code 1882, § 4724; Penal Code 1895, § 900; Penal Code 1910, § 921; Code 1933, § 27-211.

OFFICIAL CODE OF GEORGIA ANNOTATED
Copyright 2020 by The State of Georgia All rights reserved.
 
gc70 said:
You apparently rushed past "were following, in 'hot pursuit', a burglary suspect, with solid first hand probable cause" which is different from your pronouncements about suspicion and knowledge.
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Nope, saw them. You apparently rushed past the repeated use of the word 'appears'. Appearance is suggestive, not authoritative.

Saying it appears that the law applies isn't the same as saying the law applies, and the DA knows that well enough to recuse him/herself so that when the trap doors open and the rope snaps tight, they're not holding the lever.
 
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Matt.Cross said:
Nope, saw them. You apparently rushed past her repeated use of the word 'appears'. Appearance is suggestive, not authoritative.

Saying it appears that the law applies isn't the same as saying the law applies, and she knows that well enough to recuse herself so that when the trap doors open and the rope snaps tight, she's not holding the lever.
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But...if we accept that these murderers acted in anyway except absolute moronic murder then it flies in the face of our own racist wet dream of one day defending our properties from the horrors of black joggers.


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Matt.Cross said:
Nope, saw them. You apparently rushed past her repeated use of the word 'appears'. Appearance is suggestive, not authoritative.

Saying it appears that the law applies isn't the same as saying the law applies, and she knows that well enough to recuse herself so that when the trap doors open and the rope snaps tight, she's not holding the lever.
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And you carefully read George's letter ...

"For the above and foregoing reasons, it is our conclusion there is insufficient probable cause to issue arrest warrants at this time."

I leave it to you to figure out how that works with starting with a citizen's arrest.
 
gc70 said:
And you carefully read George's letter ...

"For the above and foregoing reasons, it is our conclusion there is insufficient probable cause to issue arrest warrants at this time."

I leave it to you to figure out how that works with starting with a citizen's arrest.
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I've concluded how it works, it's corrupt. It's the fine art of knowing how to blow smoke in legalese, and when it comes crashing down for the murderers, it needs to come crashing down for the preferential scumbags in the county's justice system as well.

The DA isn't under oath in what's conveyed, and likely feels that because the local courts work on the buddy system rather than blind justice, can lie with impunity. I hope he's wrong about that.

There's nothing in the available evidence that suggests any of these folks aren't lying their butts off.
 
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I have on several occasions met people and asked them what their purpose was for being where they were. I have always carried a long gun during these adventures. Never once was I attacked or aggressively charged. Never once did someone feel the need to grab the barrel of my gun.
Had they, no matter what their skin color, that action would have gotten them shot.
Which brings up the question, who the heck actually gives a crap what color a man is? But for some reason it seems to be made a big deal of in the media.
For every incident that involves a white individual harming a black individual there are 10 others that have happened in the reverse. But you never see marches or protests or walks or organized rallies.
The media keeps all this stuff stirred up and everyone divided.

We will never be a true country until these things are looked at as people doing extremely stupid things and not just looked at thru the eyes of racism.
 
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Matt.Cross said:
I've concluded how it works, it's corrupt. It's the fine art of knowing how to blow smoke in legalese, and when it comes crashing down for the murderers, it needs to come crashing down for the preferential scumbags in the county's justice system as well.

The DA isn't under oath in what she conveys, and likely feels that because the local courts work on the buddy system rather than blind justice, she can lie with impunity. I hope she's wrong about that.

There's nothing in the available evidence that suggests any of these folks aren't lying their butts off.
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She, she, she ... the letter was not written by a woman.

The first DA in Glynn County advised the responding officers against arrests, then she recused herself nearly immediately.
The second DA in Ware County reviewed the case over a month, got the PD's investigation and autopsy report, and wrote the letter with the conclusion quoted above before recusing himself over a complaint by the family.
The third DA in Liberty County reviewed the case over a couple of weeks and decided to go to a grand jury because the case had become politicized.
 
gc70 said:
She, she, she ... the letter was not written by a woman.

The first DA in Glynn County advised the responding officers against arrests, then she recused herself nearly immediately.
The second DA in Ware County reviewed the case over a month, got the PD's investigation and autopsy report, and wrote the letter with the conclusion quoted above before recusing himself over a complaint by the family.
The third DA in Liberty County reviewed the case over a couple of weeks and decided to go to a grand jury because the case had become politicized.
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My points stand regardless of the sex of the DA. The DA in question pointed out that the mother's items of complaint were invalid, and yet, recused himself anyways. Why? Again, doesn't want to be holding the lever when the trap doors open. That the case wouldn't be tried until it was politicized is the greatest indicator of their corruption.

Oh everybody's looking? Well in that case, time to do the right thing....
 
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gc70 said:
§ 17-4-60. Grounds for arrest

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

History

Orig. Code 1863, § 4604; Code 1868, § 4627; Code 1873, § 4724; Code 1882, § 4724; Penal Code 1895, § 900; Penal Code 1910, § 921; Code 1933, § 27-211.

OFFICIAL CODE OF GEORGIA ANNOTATED
Copyright 2020 by The State of Georgia All rights reserved.
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So it looks like it was around 1910?

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Tailhunter said:
I have on several occasions met people and asked them what their purpose was for being where they were. I have always carried a long gun during these adventures. Never once was I attacked or aggressively charged. Never once did someone feel the need to grab the barrel of my gun.
Had they, no matter what their skin color, that action would have gotten them shot.
Which brings up the question, who the heck actually gives a crap what color a man is? But for some reason it seems to be made a big deal of in the media.
For every incident that involves a white individual harming a black individual there are 10 others that have happened in the reverse. But you never see marches or protests or walks or organized rallies.
The media keeps all this stuff stirred up and everyone divided.

We will never be a true country until these things are looked at as people doing extremely stupid things and not just looked at thru the eyes of racism.
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The big difference is when that happens those black offenders are swifty brought to justice as they should be. And in none of those cases will you find people especially here looking for ways to justify the actions or find ways to make sense of it. The issue isnt who's doing what to who it's what happens to those are are doing when it happens.

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Tailhunter said:
I have on several occasions met people and asked them what their purpose was for being where they were. I have always carried a long gun during these adventures. Never once was I attacked or aggressively charged. Never once did someone feel the need to grab the barrel of my gun.
Had they, no matter what their skin color, that action would have gotten them shot.
Which brings up the question, who the heck actually gives a crap what color a man is? But for some reason it seems to be made a big deal of in the media.
For every incident that involves a white individual harming a black individual there are 10 others that have happened in the reverse. But you never see marches or protests or walks or organized rallies.
The media keeps all this stuff stirred up and everyone divided.

We will never be a true country until these things are looked at as people doing extremely stupid things and not just looked at thru the eyes of racism.
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We're you in the middle of a public road, blocking someone's legal use of said road?
 
Wahoo95 said:
So it looks like it was around 1910?
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A law was originally adopted in 1863 and last amended 1933, but that only means there was a statute that dealt with citizens arrest. We have no real evidence of the language that was in the earlier statutes.

Nevertheless, Georgia's current statutory language is not conceptually radically different from the NC Supreme Court's description of the common laws origins of citizens arrest in State v. Mobley.
 
Here we are, 8 pages into the discussion of a case that revolves around citizens arrest.

Thank goodness North Carolina law does not allow citizens to arrest each other - although citizens can "detain" other citizens. Hmmmm ... that sounds strangely familiar.

And North Carolina's laws are not quite as antiquated and bizarre as Georgia's, where a father can bring a lawsuit for "the seduction of a daughter."
 
Wahoo95 said:
The big difference is when that happens those black offenders are swifty brought to justice as they should be. And in none of those cases will you find people especially here looking for ways to justify the actions or find ways to make sense of it. The issue isnt who's doing what to who it's what happens to those are are doing when it happens.

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Me thinks you are joking ... "swiftly"
 
Wahoo95 said:
Things went south in a hurry based on the video. He was shot right after coming around the truck which tells me the gun was pointed.
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My gut feeling is you are correct, but we don’t have evidence of it. The video is limited and incomplete. If it really is a case of they were going to get them and kill a black dude, they need to hang, or at least face the (in)justice system along with everyone else that has engaged in covering the system up. Everyone is entitled to the same rights regardless of race, religion, etc. As a citizen of the US he is entitled to no less. At the same time, it is possible that the situation didn’t go down as some are theorizing based on the very limited video and we can speculate till the cows come home.

All, that being said, do I think it’s possible that he, or justice, is more likely to be shortchanged because he was black? Unfortunately, yes, that does still happen, even today. At the same time, a video release has caused the court of public opinion to jump to wrong conclusions.

iI also notice you’re pretty much nonexistent on the forum until it’s a divisive racial issue too. That’s too bad.
 
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Tailhunter said:
Not at the time but I wouldn't let that stop me if I thought it needed to be done.
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Private property? Yeah no problem I carry a shotgun in a scabbard most times on my farm. Why? It is my farm and they are at least a quarter mile off any sort of path and past several no trespassing signs.

On a public road blocking my path with a shotgun out, and a buddy in the back of the truck. Yeah there is very likely going to be violence. And I am quite sure were someone to do that to you the result would be the same.

Nobody is going to block a road while armed to give me a million dollars, or ask for a cup of sugar
 
noway2 said:
My gut feeling is you are correct, but we don’t have evidence of it. The video is limited and incomplete.

iI also notice you’re pretty much nonexistent on the forum until it’s a divisive racial issue too. That’s too bad.
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You're correct, we dont have a clear view of what happened in front of the truck but that first shot was pretty fast and connected so it's hard to speculate the gun wasn't at the least low ready when he turned that corner. I've never made this about race or divisiveness. I've focused my responses on the things that dont add up.

I don't spend as much time here anymore as the content of the forum is really lacking and the whether you choose to accept it or not there's an element present here which many find acceptable but it turns me off so it's not worth my time.

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Wahoo95 said:
I don't spend as much time here anymore as the content of the forum is really lacking and the whether you choose to accept it or not there's an element present here which many find acceptable but it turns me off so it's not worth my time.
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Understood. However, many have said your both one of the nicest people they’ve ever met and a strong 2A supporter. Sorry, the overall forum turns you off.
 
Haven't followed this thread much since I found out trespassing/entering someone elses property is both legal and acceptable but figured I would drop this off. If this has been posted ignore and carry on. Video of this fella entering the dried in house, garage, walking around the side of it, exiting the FRONT DOOR, and taking off down the road, neighbors watching and can see the white pickup take off down the road. It appears the video may be sped up some across the board, however, most security cameras record at 15-30 frames per sec, due to the amount of ground covered by this guy between the frames, I do not believe he was jogging when he left the house. Looks like full stride to me. This is my opinion based solely on the footage/frames/locations of individuals in the video.

https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law...ge-ahmaud-arbery-case/xvSWFTbaD0k9cr80R7CTnL/

I think I've stayed pretty neutral on this thus far (aside from my views on property rights), still don't know all the details... but based on the video above, in the tight knit neighborhoods i've lived in, I would fully expect that person (black, white, blue, purple, what ever race) to be stopped, questioned, and depending on attitude, held at gunpoint until LEO arrived. Blocked road? maybe. Legal or not, it is what it is.

Just my opinion, I doubt these guys just blindly took off "looking to kill a man of color" as some here have eluded to but again as some one else stated, minds were made up the minute the "shots fired" video came out. I'd like to know what if any dialog played out between the neighbors as the father/sons house was certainly in earshot of the neighbor that called 911. More information will continue to come out.
 
100% this was a hit squad, but EVEN IF (and i hate playing the "if" game giving some of yall credit or credence) dude had broken into an unoccupied house & was leaving, that's not grounds for a hunt and execution. Period. If this was the 20s those men would have had on hoods.
 
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Wahoo95 said:
I don't spend as much time here anymore as the content of the forum is really lacking and the whether you choose to accept it or not there's an element present here which many find acceptable but it turns me off so it's not worth my time.

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More of us find it less acceptable than you may give credit for. The lack of action against it is also well known.


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B00ger said:
More of us find it less acceptable than you may give credit for. The lack of action against it is also well known.


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No one comes out and straight up says it tho. As many ppl here feel real easy calling me a communist or whatever repugnant thing they come up with, no one wants to call out racists and bigots the same way.
 
SPST said:
The dad is retired LEO and former court investigator. Still no excuse to shoot someone you don't want running in your neighborhood.
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GA law may be different than in NC. In NC retired means you aren't a cop anymore (I can't wait till I'm retired by the way), you no longer possess the power of arrest and you don't get to go running around the streets investigating what you deem to be suspicious activity. When you are retired you call 911 if you see something you think is suspicious. I will concede to the point unless the suspicious activity is happening on your property, I know myself (before and after I was an LEO) and many others here have and would confront someone acting suspiciously at our home but otherwise, call 911. @Tim, in my humble opinion you are spot on Mr. Arbery was murdered and that would remain my opinion no matter the race of Mr. Arbery or the murderers.

@SPST just quoting you for the retired segment, your post speaks for itself.

gc70 said:
"They are not LEO" has some meaning in North Carolina, but possibly less so in Georgia.
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@gc70 after reading the GA law you posted I still argue they are wrong and committed murder. The GA specifically states it must be a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape. The only thing I have found thus far which could be a crime would be trespassing when he stopped and looked inside the new house that was under construction. In GA trespassing is only a misdemeanor and therefore they had no right to make an arrest and any force they used to attempt such arrest is not authorized.
 
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