GRNC Alert: Constitutional carry bill filed in General Assembly

Radar said:
So is GRNC going to push to have this passed? With a looming supermajority due to Rep Tricia Cotham switching from D to R, making the house veto proof. Or is this going to get over looked?
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Everyone needs to keep themselves on the GRNC alert list and be ready to call/email the crap out of these critters on short notice. Fortune favors the prepared. There is no excuse not to get it done when we have the numbers, but if there are two-faced snakes in the GOP seating section, we need to flush them out with a recorded vote and override attempt, regardless.
 
Jayne said:
I would rather they work on getting more gun-free-zone crap out of the way and/or restrictions put on what can be made gun-free. Carrying without a permit is cool and all, but if they lose power it will be trivial to make carry so impossible as to be unworkable. No reason any venue that doesn't provide armed guards should be off limits for the good guys to protect themselves.

Get that at least codified so it takes some work on their part to undo, then if you're still in power go after the permit free carry.
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There is a good point in that, it's the off limit places that really get you. Before we had state preemption it was quite a hot mess.
 
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Just got some email about it, looks like they're going for it.

Good news, but they must protect what 'carry' actually means or it will become worthless after they get this passed. See... every blue state as an example. There are way too many ways to restrict the practical application of carry to leave it to chance.
 
Jayne said:
Just got some email about it, looks like they're going for it.

Good news, but they must protect what 'carry' actually means or it will become worthless after they get this passed. See... every blue state as an example. There are way too many ways to restrict the practical application of carry to leave it to chance.
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Agreed, if I am not trustworthy or competent enough to carry in a school, then I shouldn't be carrying in Wal-Mart.
 
MostWanted said:
Agreed, if I am not trustworthy or competent enough to carry in a school, then I shouldn't be carrying in Wal-Mart.
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When some places are special for 'reasons' then it's not much of a stretch to make those 'reasons' apply everywhere since they're not based in anything but feelings.

Not sure how you would legislate that protection; you could come up with some actual criteria but it's probably just as easy to strike down that law in it's entirety later vs. trying to weasel around the criteria.
 
Would be really nice to get this passed soon so I dont have to spend half a day fiddling making an appointment to renew, finding a parking place that I have to pay for, going into the $#!T hole that is the sheriff's office and smilling at the admins who begrudgingly do their crappy jobs with a perma frown, to get my CCP "permit". But I guess without CCP's then you'll have to wait at LGS while they call in a NICS check which works so well in keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and mental defectives.
 
jimmyjames8 said:
Would be really nice to get this passed soon so I dont have to spend half a day fiddling making an appointment to renew, finding a parking place that I have to pay for, going into the $#!T hole that is the sheriff's office and smilling at the admins who begrudgingly do their crappy jobs with a perma frown, to get my CCP "permit". But I guess without CCP's then you'll have to wait at LGS while they call in a NICS check which works so well in keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and mental defectives.
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They have to keep the existing permit system for reciprocity purposes, so you can take your permit to a non-Constitutional Carry state. You bring up an interesting point, though. There are places where carry is only allowed if you have a CHP, for example, restaurants that serve alcohol, State Parks, playgrounds and greenways when the city has posted them, or car pool lines at schools. Will people without a CHP be permitted to carry in those places?
 
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jimmyjames8 said:
Would be really nice to get this passed soon so I dont have to spend half a day fiddling making an appointment to renew, finding a parking place that I have to pay for, going into the $#!T hole that is the sheriff's office and smilling at the admins who begrudgingly do their crappy jobs with a perma frown, to get my CCP "permit". But I guess without CCP's then you'll have to wait at LGS while they call in a NICS check which works so well in keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and mental defectives.
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The crew in Smithfield is generally easy on the eyes and mostly friendly.

Props to Sheriff B for his part in this.
 
I'm hoping the infringement minded sheriffs decide they no longer need to slow roll the permits if this passes, since they're no longer impeding concealed carry at that point.
 
I could see constitutional carry coming to NC. Especially with Florida going that way and the NC GOP having veto lockout, it is a high probability. I would like to see this passed but currently their working on a bill that makes service provider like spectrum and AT&T to pay you fees if they're late. Kinda crazy republicans hold the legislative branch and we ae focusing on making service providers pay for being late. I mean yeah it is an inconveicne but clearly some legislator must have had one heck of a bad experience to make that a key focus!
 
jimmyjames8 said:
Would be really nice to get this passed soon so I dont have to spend half a day fiddling making an appointment to renew, finding a parking place that I have to pay for, going into the $#!T hole that is the sheriff's office and smilling at the admins who begrudgingly do their crappy jobs with a perma frown, to get my CCP "permit". But I guess without CCP's then you'll have to wait at LGS while they call in a NICS check which works so well in keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and mental defectives.
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Without a CHP you cannot have a firearm within 1000ft of a school according to federal law, I would recommend you keep it even if constitutional carry is passed.
 
Timfoilhat said:
I'm hoping the infringement minded sheriffs decide they no longer need to slow roll the permits if this passes, since they're no longer impeding concealed carry at that point.
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Their funding for the permitting division just got gutted with the repeal of PPP. They’ll probably slow down even more now.
 
Jerzsubbie said:
Their funding for the permitting division just got gutted with the repeal of PPP. They’ll probably slow down even more now.
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How much did the PPPs ever really generate? 5$ a permit and somebody has to go online and do research for a while, I don't see how that ever paid off financially to begin with?
 
Stogies said:
How much did the PPPs ever really generate? 5$ a permit and somebody has to go online and do research for a while, I don't see how that ever paid off financially to begin with?
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It was about power & control, not money. I think the one report I saw was it cost them >$50 to process each one. And I don’t know if that took into consideration the labor spent on by the various places that had to reply to mental health checks. For example, the Meck Sheriff sent it off to about a dozen different places.
 
Stogies said:
How much did the PPPs ever really generate? 5$ a permit and somebody has to go online and do research for a while, I don't see how that ever paid off financially to begin with?
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I seem to remember some years back that GRNC was able to get that $5 fee fixed so that no county could increase it. A "poison pill" so to speak, just so they would not be able to raise the fee to pay for the increasing expenses. Who knows, maybe that is whey the sheriff's association was for the repeal this time around - it was costing them money.
 
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Toprudder said:
I seem to remember some years back that GRNC was able to get that $5 fee fixed so that no county could increase it. A "poison pill" so to speak, just so they would not be able to raise the fee to pay for the increasing expenses. Who knows, maybe that is whey the sheriff's association for for the repeal this time around - it was costing them money.
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It MUST have been a money pit, you can't pay for much with 5$ per permit.
 
To further bolster that arguement we can look to Illinois. The FOID was just $5. They raised to to $10 in 2021, but also made the card good for a decade to lessen the workload so they could clear a backlog. While they were raising the price they floated raising it to as much as $50 for a 10 year card, as a deterrent, but the black caucus got all bent about it and voted that down with the republicans.
While this was all going on it came out that the funds collected for FOID card processing were supposed to offset the admin costs of the program it was discovered that nearly $30million was swept from the FOID program into general state funds. Corruption at it's finest.
 
Rebel1776 said:
Without a CHP you cannot have a firearm within 1000ft of a school according to federal law, I would recommend you keep it even if constitutional carry is passed.
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You know if they follow the same route they did with PPP; they may make CWP obsolete as well. I say this because originally PPP were still going to be obtainable since the increase of NICS flags and the 6+ month application of a UPIN. As the PPP was a work around option for an NICS flag. But they ended up making all PPP null and void instead of keeping the option to obtain one if a citizen wanted.

I was talking to the local stores and they have seen a huge uptick in flags for long time customers especially around certain purchases deemed assault rifles for awhile.. So if constitutional carry goes through, I guess we will see if they keep the verbiage of a citizen's choice of keeping/obtaining CWP or make them null/void like PPP.
 
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Stogies said:
How much did the PPPs ever really generate? 5$ a permit and somebody has to go online and do research for a while, I don't see how that ever paid off financially to begin with?
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Yep. No way $5 paid the cost of processing. Anybody know the status of the CC bill?
 
Traderjoe said:
I was talking to the local stores and they have seen a huge uptick in flags for long time customers especially around certain purchases deemed assault rifles for awhile..
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So, were these customers passing NICS background checks until recently? Were they previously buying with pistol purchase permits? Is the NICS system starting to flag people for no reason? I'd like to know more about this.

I wonder how many prohibited people heard the news about PPP going away, along with the media misrepresenting the news by making is sound like no more background checks. They show up at a guns store and try to buy a gun and end up getting flagged. How many of them lied on their 4473? And how many of them get charged for lying?

Does anyone know of any case were a prohibited person lied on a 4473 and was prosecuted?
 
Toprudder said:
So, were these customers passing NICS background checks until recently? Were they previously buying with pistol purchase permits? Is the NICS system starting to flag people for no reason? I'd like to know more about this.

I wonder how many prohibited people heard the news about PPP going away, along with the media misrepresenting the news by making is sound like no more background checks. They show up at a guns store and try to buy a gun and end up getting flagged. How many of them lied on their 4473? And how many of them get charged for lying?

Does anyone know of any case were a prohibited person lied on a 4473 and was prosecuted?
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Hunter Biden lied on a 4473 but he ain’t been prosecuted so no I dont think I can help ya on that one
 
Toprudder said:
So, were these customers passing NICS background checks until recently? Were they previously buying with pistol purchase permits? Is the NICS system starting to flag people for no reason? I'd like to know more about this.

I wonder how many prohibited people heard the news about PPP going away, along with the media misrepresenting the news by making is sound like no more background checks. They show up at a guns store and try to buy a gun and end up getting flagged. How many of them lied on their 4473? And how many of them get charged for lying?

Does anyone know of any case were a prohibited person lied on a 4473 and was prosecuted?
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I know first hand of an individual who has been a gun owner for 20+ years no issues Went into a local place and was flagged about 6-8 months ago for buying a long gun. No issues or problems just flagged for additional research needed by NICS. This particular place didn't go by the 3 day brady laws, so they waited 30 days for an answer with nothing ever responded by NICS and after the 30 days went back and they applied again and it was flagged again with no response. The store recommended that the individual go and apply for a pistol permit as they had been seeing more flags. The guy who worked there said he had been flagged recently. They applied for PPP and was approved in about 5 days at local sheriff dept and went back to the store to buy the item with no issues. They have since applied for a UPIN but still hasn't came back but also applied for a CHP that was approved about 2 months ago.

I was personally with them once to see them be flagged so I asked a few of the people I know who own stores and they concurred they have seen an uptick in NICS flags. Which could be that someone close to your name has done something or anything per NICS. It isn't an automatic denial on 4473 just comes back as additional research is required to actively approve it.


Like you I wish there was a way to know more. I wish we could find sample data showing the current flagged applications with a varying timeline. Per 3 separate gun stores (obviously words at face value) they have seen an increase in flags of people they had that were repeat customers. The small consensus I explored conveyed that most flags were SBR and long semi-auto rifles including the 10/22. Now that can be taken as a grain of salt until someone can provide the above forementioned data points.
 
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Timfoilhat said:
The top of the bill draft tells us the intent to keep the CHP

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That is all well and good but the original draft of the Pistol Permit stated basically the same thing of allowing the citizen to acquire a pistol permit if they desired it and then the final passed bill made them null/void effective immediately upon going into law.

Though with that said someone/and your post did mentioned something I didn't think about at the time of my initial post. It would seem they WOULDN'T get rid of the CHP for reciprocity agreements of other states that could possibly still require a conceal permit in that state,

Though as I stated earlier in this conversation; they literally broke from session for Easter attempting to pass a bill to hold service providers such as AT&T, Spectrum, Lowe's, ETC accountable to the customers to pay a fee in the case that the provider. is late for a delivery. I mean I get it sucks if the internet guy is late but surely there are more important things to be working on. Maybe?
 
Traderjoe said:
The small consensus I explored conveyed that most flags were SBR and long semi-auto rifles including the 10/22. Now that can be taken as a grain of salt until someone can provide the above forementioned data points.
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I’ve never had a NICS run at a gun shop or show. Is the firearm part of the request? I always assumed it was just a generic request that was approved or denied, and the dealer had to deal with the particular firearm details afterwards.
 
BigWaylon said:
I’ve never had a NICS run at a gun shop or show. Is the firearm part of the request? I always assumed it was just a generic request that was approved or denied, and the dealer had to deal with the particular firearm details afterwards.
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When you file your 4473 and they run the background check. That background check is ran through NICS. All FFL dealers have to run this check unless you have a CHP currently. You are correct usually it will either approve or deny but there is the possibility it comes back "delayed" (which means further investigation is needed with no explanation)

I found a link on it https://www.nssf.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/NSSF-Factsheet-NICS-Delays.pdf

So as the link said that it usually resolves within 3-10 days but the individual I know and apparently others haven't been receiving answers at all within 30 days. Some dealers especially your larger dealers, usually require a clear yes or no answer and opt not to sale under the 3 day brady period and wait for a definite answer. But if NICS doesn't respond within 30 days to the dealer it is essentially a game of stale mate for the customer. I mean it makes sense that a dealer get a definitive answer for safety but the NICS website basically states after 3 days they quit looking at the delay because of the active brady law.

If you google it you will find it is becoming a growing problem and that NICS recommend if it happens to you that you file for a UPIN which essentially is a number given to you that verifies that you are; who you say you are. It is very interesting.
 
A friend of mine, decades ago, was the victim of pretty invasive identity theft, and that thief was subsequently convicted of some serious stuff. My friend had to apply for a UPIN because there is still some stuff in NICS that attaches to him unless he uses the UPIN.
 
BigWaylon said:
I’ve never had a NICS run at a gun shop or show. Is the firearm part of the request? I always assumed it was just a generic request that was approved or denied, and the dealer had to deal with the particular firearm details afterwards.
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I recall sitting at my FFL while they called in a NICS check, before I had a CHP, and I remember some question about whether stripped AR lowers were a long gun or not. The person on the phone clarified that a bare receiver is a firearm.
So yes, they do (or least did) ask what type of firearm.
 
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Traderjoe said:
When you file your 4473 and they run the background check. That background check is ran through NICS. All FFL dealers have to run this check unless you have a CHP currently. You are correct usually it will either approve or deny but there is the possibility it comes back "delayed" (which means further investigation is needed with no explanation)

I found a link on it https://www.nssf.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/NSSF-Factsheet-NICS-Delays.pdf

So as the link said that it usually resolves within 3-10 days but the individual I know and apparently others haven't been receiving answers at all within 30 days. Some dealers especially your larger dealers, usually require a clear yes or no answer and opt not to sale under the 3 day brady period and wait for a definite answer. But if NICS doesn't respond within 30 days to the dealer it is essentially a game of stale mate for the customer. I mean it makes sense that a dealer get a definitive answer for safety but the NICS website basically states after 3 days they quit looking at the delay because of the active brady law.

If you google it you will find it is becoming a growing problem and that NICS recommend if it happens to you that you file for a UPIN which essentially is a number given to you that verifies that you are; who you say you are. It is very interesting.
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Yeah, I got all that. But you didn’t answer my question. @Jerzsubbie got it though.
 
BigWaylon said:
Yeah, I got all that. But you didn’t answer my question. @Jerzsubbie got it though.
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My apologies. I thought when I said "When you file your 4473 and they run the background check. That background check is ran through NICS. All FFL dealers have to run this check unless you have a CHP currently" that answered your question. Glad you got an answer that was clear to you though.
 
Traderjoe said:
My apologies. I thought when I said "When you file your 4473 and they run the background check. That background check is ran through NICS. All FFL dealers have to run this check unless you have a CHP currently" that answered your question. Glad you got an answer that was clear to you though.
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My question, in case it wasn’t clear, is did the type of firearm matter. You had said it was SBRs (which wouldn’t need a NICS) and 10/22s. I wasn’t sure where in the NICS check itself (since I know it’s on the 4473) the type of firearm was part of the equation.
 
Traderjoe said:
You know if they follow the same route they did with PPP; they may make CWP obsolete as well. I say this because originally PPP were still going to be obtainable since the increase of NICS flags and the 6+ month application of a UPIN. As the PPP was a work around option for an NICS flag. But they ended up making all PPP null and void instead of keeping the option to obtain one if a citizen wanted.

I was talking to the local stores and they have seen a huge uptick in flags for long time customers especially around certain purchases deemed assault rifles for awhile.. So if constitutional carry goes through, I guess we will see if they keep the verbiage of a citizen's choice of keeping/obtaining CWP or make them null/void like PPP.
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Not a single state I know of that has passed constitutional carry has done away with there carry licenses so I highly doubt NC will.
 
Rebel1776 said:
Not a single state I know of that has passed constitutional carry has done away with there carry licenses so I highly doubt NC will.
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Of course they’re not gonna do away with it…that’s clearly stated in the proposal. (See post #63) 😉
 
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