Gun sniffing dog being deployed at Southpoint Mall

Thinking about it … The poor gun sniffing dog can’t be everywhere all the time. I would suggest the mall secure all points of entry. By that I mean all access to the mall must be thru mall security controlled and monitored entrances, stores will not be allowed to have entrance doors directly from the parking lot. All entrances will have metal detectors and X-ray machines that are manned but armed security guards who will scan everything from baby strollers to wheelchairs … baby bags to pocketbooks … and if need be pat down anyone suspected of violating policies. Everyone is calling for tighter security so they shouldn’t care about the extra time, inconvenience and intrusion it would be to be “safe” in the mall.
 
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Schattenreiter said:
This one is a no brainer. How is a dog who supposedly alerts to a gun going to react when he is handled by a cop with a (wait for it) ************************************* gun on his/her hip?
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The exact same way a lab jumps out the boat to get a duck on the water and doesn't mess with the pile of birds in the boat.

Don't bad mouth the poor puppers I have more faith in it than a cop tbh lol
 
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Schattenreiter said:
This one is a no brainer. How is a dog who supposedly alerts to a gun going to react when he is handled by a cop with a (wait for it) ************************************* gun on his/her hip?
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Does mall security carry firearms? Seriously I have not been to a mall in so long I thought they were all Paul Blart types with maybe pepper spray and a walkie talkie.
 
They're trained to detect powders and cleaning/lubricating fluids used.

Now...is this area posted No Firearms in accordance with NC law? I believe it may be, since it's private property and their website says no firearms or illegal weapons. However, is it ACTUALLY POSTED per NC law? Websites don't count.


I say get a whole sh*tload of people to go to the mall when they're pulling this stunt with powders, cleaners, and lubricant's lightly rubbed into their clothing.

And, for giggles, carry dog treats in your pockets, to include MilkBones, Kraft cheese slices, and a bit of a rub down with ham and sausages on the pants to boot. (A military drug sniffing dog alerted on my ham sammich lunch once.)

They wanna play silly games? Fine, let them play silly games. Just change the rules on them a bit.
 
Squanchy said:
The exact same way a lab jumps out the boat to get a duck on the water and doesn't mess with the pile of birds in the boat.

Don't bad mouth the poor puppers I have more faith in it than a cop tbh lol
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Just reread your post.

No.1 I was not bad mouthing the dog at all. You misinterpreted that.

No.2 I disagree with your statement.

A drug dog is trained(supposedly ) to alert to the smell of drugs when given a command. So if drugs are present anywhere they should alert. Whether those drugs are in a package or on a person. So why would he not alert to any cop standing nearby?

A retriever on the other hand is trained with visual and verbal commands. He is pointed at a downed duck and commanded to retrieve. In the case of multiple birds down at the same time he will go to the one he is point to and return to the handler. Then pointed at the next bird and again given the retrieve command. He does not wander around aimlessly until he stumbles across a downed bird.He has no need to mess with the ones in the boat because he has enuff sense to know he already retrieved those birds.

I watched my brother train his lab. He could launch multiple dummies for the dog to retrieve. Some close and some farther away. If he sent the dog to one farther away he would pass by one that was closer to get to the one he was sent after. This is a visual thing. Drugs are smell. How is a gun dog supposed to know the difference in a cops gun and Joe citizens gun?
 
HMP said:
What Constitutional issue would this cause?
This is private property, not gov controlled, yes?
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The question would come about if they attempted a search. They have no authority to do so as mall security.

However, they may run afoul of law suits if people are being denied entrance because of suspected weapons when there are none. They can deny entrance (service) for pretty much anything that isn't protected by law and deem you a trespasser if you refuse to leave. But if they're denying people for stated reasons that aren't true, then there might be legal problems. I'm not an attorney, though, so I don't know how this would go if challenged.
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
They're trained to detect powders and cleaning/lubricating fluids used.

Now...is this area posted No Firearms in accordance with NC law? I believe it may be, since it's private property and their website says no firearms or illegal weapons. However, is it ACTUALLY POSTED per NC law? Websites don't count.


I say get a whole sh*tload of people to go to the mall when they're pulling this stunt with powders, cleaners, and lubricant's lightly rubbed into their clothing.

And, for giggles, carry dog treats in your pockets, to include MilkBones, Kraft cheese slices, and a bit of a rub down with ham and sausages on the pants to boot. (A military drug sniffing dog alerted on my ham sammich lunch once.)

They wanna play silly games? Fine, let them play silly games. Just change the rules on them a bit.
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You really think they're actually looking for stuff? This is just security going over to someone annoying and going "dog says you gotta leave"
 
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So how does this work anyway? You're walking around the mall, the dog does a 'search' on you without cause, that gives the handler cause to search you because the other search turned something up?

If at a regular stop a cop can 'smell weed' which leads to more searching, why can't they just say the cop said 'I saw a gun' and then they get to search you directly? There is no penalty for them searching and not finding anything, so... why not just do that all the time and leave the dog at home?

Or, why not just have the dog 'alert' at everyone is sniffs? Point it at all the non-Karen mall denizens and you get a free search because of the dog. There isnt' a limit as to how many people it can trigger on, so have at it.
 
Jayne said:
So how does this work anyway? You're walking around the mall, the dog does a 'search' on you without cause, that gives the handler cause to search you because the other search turned something up?

If at a regular stop a cop can 'smell weed' which leads to more searching, why can't they just say the cop said 'I saw a gun' and then they get to search you directly? There is no penalty for them searching and not finding anything, so... why not just do that all the time and leave the dog at home?

Or, why not just have the dog 'alert' at everyone is sniffs? Point it at all the non-Karen mall denizens and you get a free search because of the dog. There isnt' a limit as to how many people it can trigger on, so have at it.
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The dog is just so you have a thing to say you used for when someone yells racist when you tell them they gotta leave the mall and the publicity is theater
 
Jayne said:
Or, why not just have the dog 'alert' at everyone is sniffs? Point it at all the non-Karen mall denizens and you get a free search because of the dog. There isnt' a limit as to how many people it can trigger on, so have at it.
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Hence the soon to be coming lawsuits from the ACLU alleging a racially biased stop and frisk policy.

Or the poor dog might suffer from sensory overload and stroke out the first week.
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
They're trained to detect powders and cleaning/lubricating fluids used.

Now...is this area posted No Firearms in accordance with NC law? I believe it may be, since it's private property and their website says no firearms or illegal weapons. However, is it ACTUALLY POSTED per NC law? Websites don't count.


I say get a whole sh*tload of people to go to the mall when they're pulling this stunt with powders, cleaners, and lubricant's lightly rubbed into their clothing.

And, for giggles, carry dog treats in your pockets, to include MilkBones, Kraft cheese slices, and a bit of a rub down with ham and sausages on the pants to boot. (A military drug sniffing dog alerted on my ham sammich lunch once.)

They wanna play silly games? Fine, let them play silly games. Just change the rules on them a bit.
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The indoor part of the mall is properly posted (at least the entrance from the outdoor part). The outdoor part is certainly not “conspicuous”.
 
NCFubar said:
Does mall security carry firearms? Seriously I have not been to a mall in so long I thought they were all Paul Blart types with maybe pepper spray and a walkie talkie.
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I went to Hanes Mall recently with my daughter. We go once a year to get momma some bath and hand soap. I let my daughter help pick the scents. Anyway, Hanes Mall has security guards that carry a flashlight and radio and nothing else. They also have Winston Salem PD walking around but they are usually standing next to an escalator.
 
My question is regarding the gun buster signs, do the signs have to be on every door??? In Hanes Mall, they ARE on the main entrances to the mall BUT if you go in through Belks, Dillard, JC Penny that are attached to the mall sorta like Bass Pro is in Concord. They have separate entrances but you are able to get to them from the mall side also. The don’t have gun signs on their doors? So my question, can you legally carry since there was no gun buster sign?
 
Crankbait said:
My question is regarding the gun buster signs, do the signs have to be on every door??? In Hanes Mall, they ARE on the main entrances to the mall BUT if you go in through Belks, Dillard, JC Penny that are attached to the mall sorta like Bass Pro is in Concord. They have separate entrances but you are able to get to them from the mall side also. The don’t have gun signs on their doors? So my question, can you legally carry since there was no gun buster sign?
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No signs and it is legal to carry. Look closely as you leave the store into the mall for signs because past them and it could be a crap shoot.
 
Crankbait said:
My question is regarding the gun buster signs, do the signs have to be on every door??? In Hanes Mall, they ARE on the main entrances to the mall BUT if you go in through Belks, Dillard, JC Penny that are attached to the mall sorta like Bass Pro is in Concord. They have separate entrances but you are able to get to them from the mall side also. The don’t have gun signs on their doors? So my question, can you legally carry since there was no gun buster sign?
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In my NC CHP class, they told us to look for a door that's not signed. Always use that door to go in and out. If you are ever arrested, for carrying inside the mall, there will be video evidence of you going in and out the door with no gun buster sign. Then, when you go to court, you can honestly say, "I didn't know I wasn't supposed to carry there. I always go in and out of the same door, at Xxxxx store, and there is no gun buster sign."

Of course, we all know, you hear all kinds of nonsense in CHP classes, gun stores, on the internet, etc...
 
Schattenreiter said:
So does he alert every time another cop walks up or just when he is told to?
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When he's told to, bomb sniffing dogs at airports do the same thing.
Schattenreiter said:
Just reread your post.

No.1 I was not bad mouthing the dog at all. You misinterpreted that.

No.2 I disagree with your statement.

A drug dog is trained(supposedly ) to alert to the smell of drugs when given a command. So if drugs are present anywhere they should alert. Whether those drugs are in a package or on a person. So why would he not alert to any cop standing nearby?

A retriever on the other hand is trained with visual and verbal commands. He is pointed at a downed duck and commanded to retrieve. In the case of multiple birds down at the same time he will go to the one he is point to and return to the handler. Then pointed at the next bird and again given the retrieve command. He does not wander around aimlessly until he stumbles across a downed bird.He has no need to mess with the ones in the boat because he has enuff sense to know he already retrieved those birds.

I watched my brother train his lab. He could launch multiple dummies for the dog to retrieve. Some close and some farther away. If he sent the dog to one farther away he would pass by one that was closer to get to the one he was sent after. This is a visual thing. Drugs are smell. How is a gun dog supposed to know the difference in a cops gun and Joe citizens gun?
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Look man I'm not getting into a D measuring contest with you. Looks like you obviously have a complex.

Look up bomb dogs led by cops carrying guns to find gunpowder (and other) bombs.

Also anyone that has trained a hunting dog knows if you train a dog just for sight you'll have a crappy hunting dog when a bird lands in the bushes. These are not chiwawas these are very expensive dogs paid for by taxes. They have the best lol
 
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Crankbait said:
I’ve never seen one but don’t they have to be visible in plain sight?
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Some malls have the signs where you leave the store into the rest of the mall because the store allows carry or won’t put up the signs. At that point it can become a crap shoot.
 
Crankbait said:
My question is regarding the gun buster signs, do the signs have to be on every door??? In Hanes Mall, they ARE on the main entrances to the mall BUT if you go in through Belks, Dillard, JC Penny that are attached to the mall sorta like Bass Pro is in Concord. They have separate entrances but you are able to get to them from the mall side also. The don’t have gun signs on their doors? So my question, can you legally carry since there was no gun buster sign?
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Under …

NCGS 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
Subsection C line 8 … On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.

This was a topic of discussion with a well seasoned and level headed retired LEO friend. He point blank said he has told more business owners/managers/etc that if a normal person walking in can’t SEE & READ the notice he does not consider it “conspicuous” and would ask the person to leave … not even trespass them. If the owners/managers/etc wants to prohibit the legal carrying of a firearm they need to follow the law and post a sign that is “conspicuous” even if it is ugly, distracting or other type … posting it in small print at the lower bottom of a window or door where the eye does not readily see it is not a fair interpretation of the law. He also did point out the old “Sears is not posted” excuse some CHP holders tried and he pointed out to them they knew the mall was posted but Sears was not is petty much playing fast and loose with the law kinda like when the owners/managers/etc posting tiny non-conspicuous signage.

If you do try “didn’t see the sign” or “there was no sign” be careful not to incriminate yourself as to knowing that there is some form of posting(s) for the premises … and you found a loophole or such. You might get a decent LEO who will be nice or you could get a power pisser who pushes it.
 
NCFubar said:
Under …

NCGS 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
Subsection C line 8 … On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.

This was a topic of discussion with a well seasoned and level headed retired LEO friend. He point blank said he has told more business owners/managers/etc that if a normal person walking in can’t SEE & READ the notice he does not consider it “conspicuous” and would ask the person to leave … not even trespass them. If the owners/managers/etc wants to prohibit the legal carrying of a firearm they need to follow the law and post a sign that is “conspicuous” even if it is ugly, distracting or other type … posting it in small print at the lower bottom of a window or door where the eye does not readily see it is not a fair interpretation of the law. He also did point out the old “Sears is not posted” excuse some CHP holders tried and he pointed out to them they knew the mall was posted but Sears was not is petty much playing fast and loose with the law kinda like when the owners/managers/etc posting tiny non-conspicuous signage.

If you do try “didn’t see the sign” or “there was no sign” be careful not to incriminate yourself as to knowing that there is some form of posting(s) for the premises … and you found a loophole or such. You might get a decent LEO who will be nice or you could get a power pisser who pushes it.
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Thanks for that. I reckon it’s up to each LEO weather they enforce something like that or not. I suppose at that point just carry at your own risk and don’t get caught
 
Meckmeister said:
Is there a risk at SPMall this year? Maybe they're concerned it's a Northlake Mall or Concord Mills (the two in Charlotte with trouble) about to happen. But I don't know, haven't frequented those areas in about five years.
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Been 4-5 shooting incidents in last few weeks. I believe they were done by bored yutes.
 
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