Help me decide how to respond to this

GymB

GymB

Picking it up slowly.
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The story is real, the names have been changed because I forgot some of them.

Small company, maybe 20 employees.
VP of sales is a 40yo female, Barb.
Barb is good friends with her subordinate Jess.
Thursday night at 5 Barb and Jess leave the office for drinks. This involves doing a few shots of vodka in Barb’s car in the parking lot
Barb heads home, Jess comes back inside around 6.
While this is going on FNG Tyrone is in the office with the rest of the sales team including my daughter. He decides to remove a handgun from his backpack, wave it around a litte, mostly showing it off and bragging, but keeps it mostly pointed at the ceiling.
Jess comes back in, clearly affected by her drinks and asks to see the gun, Tyrone obliges.
Jess is pointing it at her coworkers, specifically pointing it at Becky and and my daughter and says “now you’d better get your numbers up or else.”
I don’t know how Tyrone recovered the gun, but everyone was freaking out.
The next day the entire staff was talking about this, everyone still freaked out, no work getting done, avoiding Tyrone and Jess, expecting them to get fired. General tone being “how damn dumb and dangerous can you be and not expect to get fired.”
Management’s response, delivered by Barb, the next day was to call the staff together and dress them down for bullying Tyrone and Jess.

So now daughter feels unsafe at the office, feels that management really sucks, and intends to quit even though the job was a great opportunity.

Question is should she do anything else? She and Becky are thinking about reporting the incident to the police, it sure seems like assault. They are also thinking about sending letters to the business owner who is not involved in the day-to-day operations and is likely unaware of the situation. Leaving threats of violence out of it, what would you do, or suggest she do, if someone pointed a gun at your daughter at work and management responded as above?
 
The appropriate response would be a resignation letter to the owner stating very clearly the who, what, when of the situation.

A report to the police is certainly not out of contention either.

Edit: maybe not a resignation letter. But a letter stating “If so and so continue to be employed here, I will not feel safe remaining”
 
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I would contact the owner and let them deal with it. Edit: Is there a firearms policy at the business?
 
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At least speak with the owner but, regardless of the owner's actions, seriously consider bringing charges for assault by pointing a gun*. Adult idiots who do something like that will not improve on their own and their stupidity is likely to cause injury or death in the future.

* North Carolina General Statutes § 14-34. Assaulting by pointing gun.
If any person shall point any gun or pistol at any person, either in fun or otherwise, whether such gun or pistol be loaded or not loaded, he shall be guilty of a Class A1 misdemeanor.

JimB said:
... what would you do ... if someone pointed a gun at your daughter at work and management responded as above?
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If someone pointed a gun at my children or grandchildren in a workplace, management would not have an opportunity to respond until after the miscreant had been arrested.
 
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It’s time for the owner to act like an owner.

§ 95-129. Rights and duties of employers.

Rights and duties of employers shall include but are not limited to the following provisions:

(1) Each employer shall furnish to each of his employees conditions of employment and a place of employment free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious injury or serious physical harm to his employees;
 
If she hasn't already write everything down in detail.

Business owner notified in person by letter absolutely 1st to protect your daughter.
Quit
Make them pay a severance.

Police involvement optional(NOT OPTIONAL IF I WAS HER) and possibly smear lives(not standing up for the dumb) sounds like they deserve it.

Me personally I'd already be involved and have the law involved too. Work wouldn't find out until police were. Its more than just a thought.

Lawsuit possibilities because employer continues to create a dangerous workplace and allow it to continue.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
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She is documenting, and encouraging the others to do so as well. Obviously the police won’t just believe her, but there were plenty of folks present that will give statements. FWIW, he has a CHP.

Maybe police first, then letter to owner. He owns a number of businesses and is well respected in the community, might just give her an opportunity somewhere else.

I’m as pissed about middle management bullying these 22 & 23 year olds to protect her friend as I am about the gun.

Really nothing yet to sue the company for, there is a criminal case against the gun wielding duo but no civil case against the company. Now if she acts and they retaliate then she may have a civil case. Of course it’s not about the money, but the idiots aren’t gonna stop being idiots if there are no consequences.
 
She can sue for contributing to a hostile work-environment. Jess didn't just point the gun, she made threats based on performance. Barb is complicit by defending the offenders.

The owner deserves to know what happened as soon as possible. His management team could be destroying his company, his companies, and his name.
 
TheWallrus said:
The owner deserves to know what happened as soon as possible. His management team could be destroying his company, his companies, and his name.
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This. I know she’s probably afraid to “make waves” at work, and that can be a good thing. BUT, the stupidity needs to be addressed. She could have a non involved, third party, email/call the owner and report it and then it’s on him to investigate.
I’ve seen, and investigated, stupidity beyond comprehension. There used to be a time when people were fired for these grossly stupid actions but nowadays it seems they just get promoted and reassigned to another location.
 
3 days unpaid to tyrone and mandate that he cannot return to work until a firearms safety class has been completed.
Written Counseling to management about alcohol and responsibility.

This is a learning opportunity.

Oh, for what it's worth, I was expecting Barb & Jess to have a make out session after shots. Tyrone Cok brocked with his Grock.
 
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One thing I’ve learned about the HR department is that’s function is to protect the business. Having employees drink in the parking lot, showing off concealed firearms and handing them to an intoxicated 3rd party that makes threats and brandishes, and to follow it up with a managerial dressing down of the victims..... if that were my company I’d sure be investigating, taking names, and writing pink slips, at a minimum.
 
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Demand firearms training for every employee with a professional instructor. Schedule a range day of practice for everyone employed. Validate the right to carry, but do so responsibly. Have the instructor spend extra time with Jess and Tyrone. They appear to need it.
 
TheWallrus said:
Barb is complicit by defending the offenders.

The owner deserves to know what happened as soon as possible. His management team could be destroying his company, his companies, and his name.
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Good answer. Barb needs to go. If she doesn't then keep the job hunt active. i say leave the lawyers out of it or Tyrone gets to be a scapegoat.
 
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JimB said:
I’m as pissed about middle management bullying these 22 & 23 year olds to protect her friend as I am about the gun.

Really nothing yet to sue the company for,
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I find these statements at odds. The bullying is very much actionable.

im not a “let’s sue ‘em!” Kind of guy. But the “bullying” is very telling of the mindset. Ownership needs to be made aware and take action.
 
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As an owner I would fire anyone drinking on company campus. Especially in their car honestly how stupid. I would then fire the fng who thought taking a gun out at work in a non emergency situation.

imo what should be done is she should go to the manager, no matter who she is friends with, and give the ultimatum. You either reprimanded them immediately for their actions or I will go to the magistrates office file criminal charges for assault by pointing a gun and retain an attorney for hostile work environment for the situation not being properly handled. Give her a chance to fix it or make it worse. The police will not do anything but take a useless report. They **edit** probably will not file charges for it since it was a misdemeanor that happened outside their presence. This is the kind of case that makes lawyers get a serious legal stiffy.
 
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If it were me, I would advise my daughter to quit immediately, or ASAP after securing new employment.

Nothing will fix what is broken at that office. VP of Sales and pet employee take multiple shots of vodka in car in parking lot. VP then DUI's to wherever. Pet employee returns to work inebriated. Nothing said or done will affect that behavior.

Tyrone is a time bomb. Nothing can fix that.

Even though I would feel like I need to do SOMETHING, ANYTHING, I don’t see any further action improving anything. Legal action will likely end up making Tyrone a victim, or at the very least, he'll do community service time. Contacting the owner may help, but ends up sucking your daughter back into that toxic mess to testify against involved parties. Not my or my daughter’s job to fix these broken people. Become the Gray Man and get out now.
 
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Was the gun that Tyrone was waving around loaded?

Owner needs to know how his management leaders are running HIS company.
 
Surely the incident was caught on camera. Very few work places left without them. The footage would make a compelling bargaining chip for whatever your/her goal is. And as a father my response would be anything but calm and collected so props for that.
 
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ronn47 said:
Was the gun that Tyrone was waving around loaded?
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No difference, still wrong.

ronn47 said:
Owner needs to know how his management leaders are running HIS company.
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Hostile work environment should be reported. When middle management came down on the victims that's another level of bad.

#1 Document and report.
#2 Be prepared to loose job or quit.
 
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Too bad someone else didn't also have their CC. They would have feared for their life and could have solved the problem immediately! ;)
All joking aside, a letter definitely needs to be sent to the owner. A drunk boss pointing guns at folks needs to be fired.
 
This is an HR nightmare. If there is no HR or formal complaint process for the business, 100% document and go to the owner. Unfortunately, your daughter has to be prepared to look for work elsewhere or have the backbone to stand her ground with Barb despite Barb potentially trying to make life hard for her in passive retaliation.
 
I agree with the thoughts that this is a hostile work environment, and should be filed as such. If I were her, I would not stay in this job regardless of any outcomes as it is pretty clear that ownership is not adequately involved in monitoring their manager's performance.
 
If your daughter quits, have her file unemployment (just to have it investigated). If she files because of on incident at work, they will investigate the incident when her former employer fights it (and they will). They will then turn it over to the state and authorities. She just needs to specifically tell the unemployment office the exact reason why.
 
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Letter to the owner FIRST. It should be signed by any and all emoyees who wish to do so. Daughter and Becky alone could be ganged up on. But if there are a dozen or so people's signatures at the bottom it will hold weight.

The body of the letter should include a brief description of what happened. Where the signatures are it should read "By signing this document I am agreeing with the account stated herein and was witness to the events." Sign, print, and date.

At the bottom of the letter there should he one clear, concise statement.

"If this situation is not addressed to our satisfaction, further actions will be taken, up to and including contacting law enforcement."
 
Obviously the environment has always been toxic. Just too friendly and not enough focus on “this is a place of work.”

I think she should just move on but after doing a face to face with the owner. I would ask him to pay her salary in full for the entire time she seeks new employment. If that’s 20 weeks then so be it. The owner will know what he is up against. I would get the severance in writing.

The damage is done. That office will never be the same. The owner bares full responsibility for lack of oversight.

Last week I had a temp employee point my Glock 43 at my gut after removing the gun from the van holster mount. He even had his booger finger in the trigger guard while on his lap. I asked him to put it back. Never was going to be hired permanetely due to being late 9 of 10 days with the tenth day a non work day. One pot hole and I could have been a fatality except I don’t keep one in the pipe because of idiots like this. Found out he is a double felon that same week but drug related in his early twenties. He even had the nerve to ask me to sell him a gun. Any gun. I told him about the pistol permit which he already knew but said it was not true. That might have worked on average Joe who do not know the laws.
 
noway2 said:
One thing I’ve learned about the HR department I’d that’s function is to protect the business. Having employees drink in the parking lot, showing off concealed firearms and handing them to an intoxicated 3rd party Thst makes threats and brandishes, and to follow it up with a managerial dressing down of the victims..... if that were my company I’d sure be investigating, taking names, and writing pink slips, at a minimum.
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all of this
Document the crap out of it, obtain your own statements from employees, make a formal complaint. and cc/forward all emails to an off-site email address.
It may take some time to happen... it shouldn't but it can, but we just went through something similar. It took 2 weeks, 5 or so employee written statements, multiple calls from hr to staff, etc.
So now we're just looking for the grumpy guy to pull a drive by on me when i leave work. good times since he's not allowed in the building anymore.
 
After mulling this over on my way to work I find I am disappointed that Jess isn't currently recovering from some sort of injury.

This one caught my attention because I work in a gun friendly office. Several of us carry, the partners are gun owners, and it's not unheard of to show and tell at work. This problem is about gun safety, alcohol and poor judgment - it should not be about the gun. If you get lawyers and government into it it will become all about the gun. Give the owner a chance to clean up his own house.
 
Catfish said:
After mulling this over on my way to work I find I am disappointed that Jess isn't currently recovering from some sort of injury.

This one caught my attention because I work in a gun friendly office. Several of us carry, the partners are gun owners, and it's not unheard of to show and tell at work. This problem is about gun safety, alcohol and poor judgment - it should not be about the gun. If you get lawyers and government into it it will become all about the gun. Give the owner a chance to clean up his own house.
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This is what I would do. Document everything and go talk to the owner.
 
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