directly. either by letter/email or in person. no middleman to construe anything.
Help me decide how to respond to this
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OP
Thanks all, sorry that I don’t have time to respond to you each individually.
The day-to-day managers all tend to have drinks late in the workday, in the office. There is a clear zero-tolerance policy laid out in the employee handbook, it has apparently never been adhered to.
We’re coming down on the side of giving the CEO and the owner a letter laying everything out and then resigning. She doesn’t believe that it’ll get fixed, and if it does the risk of passive retribution is too high. The job seems like a good opportunity, but it’s not worth it to stick around and it doesn’t help her to be a champion either for the company or the workers.
She’s agreed to give a statement to the police if someone else in the office files a complaint, but she doesn’t want to lead that charge.
We do not know if the gun was loaded, I believe he said that it was not, but I don’t know if it before, during, or after the events.
I’m speaking with my HR lawyer today, the bullying the staff to shut down the discussion may be actionable. Don’t know. Holding off until I get a writeup from daughter just so the lawyer gets accurate info.
The day-to-day managers all tend to have drinks late in the workday, in the office. There is a clear zero-tolerance policy laid out in the employee handbook, it has apparently never been adhered to.
We’re coming down on the side of giving the CEO and the owner a letter laying everything out and then resigning. She doesn’t believe that it’ll get fixed, and if it does the risk of passive retribution is too high. The job seems like a good opportunity, but it’s not worth it to stick around and it doesn’t help her to be a champion either for the company or the workers.
She’s agreed to give a statement to the police if someone else in the office files a complaint, but she doesn’t want to lead that charge.
We do not know if the gun was loaded, I believe he said that it was not, but I don’t know if it before, during, or after the events.
I’m speaking with my HR lawyer today, the bullying the staff to shut down the discussion may be actionable. Don’t know. Holding off until I get a writeup from daughter just so the lawyer gets accurate info.
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I don't think it matters if it was loaded. sucks that she is going to resign. what work is she looking for?
OP
Recent graduate from Indiana University, really wants to something in online/social media marketing, but this job was healthcare staffing and as it turns out she was really good at it.
I'd say it's telling of potentially more than the mindset. When an employee is capable of getting away with drinking at the job, on property, and waving a gun around 2 things come to mind. She's sleeping with someone who is important, or has dirt on someone important. It's usually not stupidity that breeds that attitude, it's confidence in being untouchable. I've seen it up close and personal before.
Be ready for war. She won't be just fighting the 2 responsible. She'll be fighting whoever wants Barb around or needs to keep Barb happy and quiet. My .02. Wouldn't stop me, don't get me wrong. But I'd hit them hard, fast, and with everything I planned on doing at once. Probably have one shot to end it, or quit/get fired.
The victims were only a trigger pull away from involuntary manslaughter.
I would take a prolonged break ASAP. My life is more important then the opportunity.
I would write a letter, stating why I took a prolonged break, what the situation is, and what it would take for me to come back to work. Copy it, notarize the (1 of 3,) (2 of 3,) send 1 copy certified mail to the business owner, keep my copy, and third copy will go to the attorneys office If I get one.
See how it plays out.
I would take a prolonged break ASAP. My life is more important then the opportunity.
I would write a letter, stating why I took a prolonged break, what the situation is, and what it would take for me to come back to work. Copy it, notarize the (1 of 3,) (2 of 3,) send 1 copy certified mail to the business owner, keep my copy, and third copy will go to the attorneys office If I get one.
See how it plays out.
Jesus H. Is the hiring manager here the same person that picked Trump's cabinet?
DrScaryGuy
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When she gets older she'll regret going quietly.
File complaints with the police - get it documented.
document every communication.
Get a lawyer involved.
Hostile workplace and retaliation can make somebody good money.
Make them settle. they'll ask for her resignation as a condition of settlement. She gets to walk away, she gets paid, the right people get in some kind of trouble.
Tim
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Just walking away could have ramifications for the next job down the line. "Ms. JimB's Daughter, why were at ACME company for such a brief time?" "Well, they pointed a gun at me..."...."Uh-huh....OK....well, then...."
OP
The case doesn’t meet the requirements for a successful hostile claim. Such a clim requires that there be some form of discrimination, the claim must be based on a protected trait and we don’t have that. Obviously doesn’t mean th
Employer retribution is a different issue, I am seeking legal advice on that. I have no experience with it as I’ve never done it.
@Tim I can’t decide if that’s good or bad. She plans to leave it off her resume but would put it on any application. It’s a story that no hiring manager will ever forget.
Employer retribution is a different issue, I am seeking legal advice on that. I have no experience with it as I’ve never done it.
@Tim I can’t decide if that’s good or bad. She plans to leave it off her resume but would put it on any application. It’s a story that no hiring manager will ever forget.
Resign in person, ask for large severance to avoid law suit. After contacting attorney if course.
Humans are devolving.
Get your daughter away from dangerous ass hats.
Humans are devolving.
Get your daughter away from dangerous ass hats.
OP
Well it’s over. They wanted to speak to her, I told her to listen to what they had to say and if they ask to offer the facts but nothing else. She couldn’t help herself and got into telling them that they need to do a bunch of stuff and how it’s all messed up and if they want the business to succeed, etc etc. Everyone got worked up, she thought they were going to fire her, so she quit and they walked her out.
Obviously not the time to point out that they got what they wanted while she didn’t get anything, and learn something from that. Maybe a few weeks into her next job.
Thanks all,
Jim
Obviously not the time to point out that they got what they wanted while she didn’t get anything, and learn something from that. Maybe a few weeks into her next job.
Thanks all,
Jim
This is The issue.
ABSOLUTELY!
These kinda things can follow her in her future job hunts. Be careful, find another job.....leave.
This^^^
Youth. Wisdom comes from experience. Experience comes from exercising poor judgement.
Sorry to here this outcome so far...
I would definitely contact a lawyer now!
Her quitting does not absolve them, it may incriminate them more. Let the lawyer tell you that she doesn't have a case, don't make the decision yourself.
Just sent this thread link to my wife, an attorney who specializes in employment law. Yes, she makes her living suing bad employers, but she also gives great advice on how to properly navigate sticky employment situations so you cover your own ass and also do the correct and lawful thing. I may be biased, but I'd say contact an attorney. They can give you proper advice. I'll post back her take on it.
Yikes. This is when emotions need to take a backseat to rationale. Always let the employer fire you. They could never given that information under these events. Plus you can sign up easily after this story.
Time to contact the owner if he wasn’t present. I think he might be willing to cut a check for severance.
File for unemployment. State reason for leaving the job was a hostile work environment. That someone drinking on the job pointed a gun at her. Let the system take over and she walks away. This is the best shot at getting something done while not wrecking her chances at other opportunities.
I personally don’t think this is a labor law issue. The state will not help her except give her unemployment under these circumstances maybe.
I wouldn’t count on charges sticking either. It will be viewed as wreckless but only if the other girl makes the charges. I will also add I will assume the incident has already reached the top of management for guidance which may have included the owner. I can safely say any owner in this situation is not sleeping well.
I wouldn’t count on charges sticking either. It will be viewed as wreckless but only if the other girl makes the charges. I will also add I will assume the incident has already reached the top of management for guidance which may have included the owner. I can safely say any owner in this situation is not sleeping well.
OP
It is in IN.
Spoke to one lawyer who confirmed that there are few causes of action once she quit. He has referred us to an HR lawyer.
She plans to file for unemployment and tell the full story.
But gets even wackier!
Shortly after she got home she got a call from the CEO. He said that he’d been aware of the drinking and gun issue, that the company had retained counsel to help them deal with it and that what they were doing simply couldn’t be disclosed to employees. Seems perfectly reasonable and daughter believes him. He affirmed that she’d been doing good work, was sorry to see her go and that it ended like this. About 30 min later the VP calls her, apologizes for how things ended said that it hadn’t been her intention (although daughter says that she said in their mtg “there is no future for you here”) and asked if they could meet to discuss further and would she consider coming back to work.
In the meantime she’s had one job interview that she thinks went well and reached out to a few other folks.
She’s not sure what she wants to do. If she gets a job offer later today I’m sure she’ll take it, but if not I think she’ll go back to the job (I told her to set boundaries like she doesn’t report to the drinking girl that pointed a gun at her) while continuing to look at other opportunities.
These folks apparently don’t know anything about people or management or managing people.
Spoke to one lawyer who confirmed that there are few causes of action once she quit. He has referred us to an HR lawyer.
She plans to file for unemployment and tell the full story.
But gets even wackier!
Shortly after she got home she got a call from the CEO. He said that he’d been aware of the drinking and gun issue, that the company had retained counsel to help them deal with it and that what they were doing simply couldn’t be disclosed to employees. Seems perfectly reasonable and daughter believes him. He affirmed that she’d been doing good work, was sorry to see her go and that it ended like this. About 30 min later the VP calls her, apologizes for how things ended said that it hadn’t been her intention (although daughter says that she said in their mtg “there is no future for you here”) and asked if they could meet to discuss further and would she consider coming back to work.
In the meantime she’s had one job interview that she thinks went well and reached out to a few other folks.
She’s not sure what she wants to do. If she gets a job offer later today I’m sure she’ll take it, but if not I think she’ll go back to the job (I told her to set boundaries like she doesn’t report to the drinking girl that pointed a gun at her) while continuing to look at other opportunities.
These folks apparently don’t know anything about people or management or managing people.
I agree. However, under a Constructive Discharge, it is normally required for the employee to have taken steps to remedy the situation. Unless I missed it, she did not. And, she has already quit. Best bet now is to get unemployment while she searches for another job. The question I pose is, "does the unemployment system have a reporting requirement for violence in the workplace involving a firearm?" If not, the issue is dead. If so, let the system deal with it and then she wont be the employee who called the police, which, like it or not, will follow her.
The unemployment system will depend on the person assigned with her case. They will determine starting unemployment and back pay if it takes time. The employer can request a hearing to block unemployment. I doubt a hearing would result in favor of the employer but she is facing a waiting period for quitting which is why the unemployment agent is important. Does this fall under workplace violence? I’m doubtful. Reckless but not criminal. If she had not quit her chances in a civil suit were strong if the company didn’t react to correct the work environment. A civil case now would depend on whether the employer created the issues or the employees acted with no fault by the employer.
It should not matter under NC law.
* North Carolina General Statutes § 14-34. Assaulting by pointing gun.
If any person shall point any gun or pistol at any person, either in fun or otherwise, whether such gun or pistol be loaded or not loaded, he shall be guilty of a Class A1 misdemeanor.
=============================================
Sorry, I did not realize the employer was in Indiana. In Indiana, the type of assault would be "criminal recklessness" and the use of a deadly weapon would push it into felony territory.
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Get a good letter of recommendation from the CEO ... as quickly as possible.
This seems to work in every liberal asshole workplace...............this makes me uncomfortable. These two need to be fired. And I'm going to peaceful protest until you do something. Always works in WA state
That my friend was a bad situation and somebody really does need to be removed. Good luck
That my friend was a bad situation and somebody really does need to be removed. Good luck
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Just me, but I would advise my daughter not to go back, at all. No telling what might happen and the VP is sheet...
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JimB, you are doing the right thing talking to an attorney who deals in employment. They will help navigate the best next steps in your daughter's interest whether she decides to go back or not. You already know you need an IN based firm, but my wife's firm gives free initial consults and you may find similar there. She may have lost some leverage by quitting, but she can claim she feared for her safety and may be able to negotiate a good severance based on that.
Those other two should be canned immediately.
That said, my office has a few concealed carriers and also beer taps in the breakroom with limited access. Our 2nd amendment fans are discreet and any show and tell only takes place behind closed doors with like minded folks. That scenario can and does work.
Those other two should be canned immediately.
That said, my office has a few concealed carriers and also beer taps in the breakroom with limited access. Our 2nd amendment fans are discreet and any show and tell only takes place behind closed doors with like minded folks. That scenario can and does work.
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Send her to a shrink. She needs to establish that she's losing sleep due to the stress of having her boss point a gun at her, then berate her the next day. PTSD.
The company council will direct them to pay her and make her go away.
The company council will direct them to pay her and make her go away.
Good grief man! 
He said she said he did then the owner and VP but Jess and Barb gun dad daughter but drinking against rules but ok everyone knows lawsuit hazard and no one knows gun forum leverage negotiate cops and quit certified mail come back human complaint resources lawyer says...
I believe I just read 10 years of As the World Turns.
He said she said he did then the owner and VP but Jess and Barb gun dad daughter but drinking against rules but ok everyone knows lawsuit hazard and no one knows gun forum leverage negotiate cops and quit certified mail come back human complaint resources lawyer says...
I believe I just read 10 years of As the World Turns.
Good grief man!
He said she said he did then the owner and VP but Jess and Barb gun dad daughter but drinking against rules but ok everyone knows lawsuit hazard and no one knows gun forum leverage negotiate cops and quit certified mail come back human complaint resources lawyer says...
I believe I just read 10 years of As the World Turns.
But, thankfully, you straightened the whole thing out.