Kel Tec SUB 2000

Stogies

Stogies

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Really considering buying one of these, I miss having a PCC so awfully much.

I used to have a CX4 in 45 ACP and it was the gun that got me into shooting but they don't make new ones anymore and I can't justify spending 1K on a used one. Besides the caliber is expensive to begin with.

Any input on whether or not to get one? Owners, former owners?
 
Look at this website below. Mcarbo installs upgraded parts in the sub2000 and sells complete packages that come with lifetime warranty.

www.mcarbo.com

M*CARBO

Precision CNC Machined American Made Firearm Performance Parts. Superior Aftermarket Firearm Performance Parts Manufactured by Combat Veterans to meet strict Combat Ready Expectations! M*CARBO - MILITARY CARBINE BROTHERHOOD. A COMMUNITY OF VETERANS, POLICE OFFICERS AND 2ND AMEMDMENT PATRIOTS!
www.mcarbo.com www.mcarbo.com
 
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I have a Keltec in .40 caliber. It has run very well for me. I also have a Glock 22 so the magazines swap just fine. I would like to find a Ruger in .40 caliber to try as well, but they are hard to find.
 
Love mine in .40 it has the ability to take s&w m&p, Barreta, or Glock mags, with a relatively easy swap out of mag drop parts. Currently takes m n p as that's my edc so makes sense and at 15 ends it's not awful for capacity. However I'd likely recommend the Glock setup for the availability of higher cap mags and their dependability over the "promag" option for the s&w m&p. I strongly recommend MCARBO products and upgrades, if you can find one of the MCARBO/KELTEC collabs for a decent price it's worth it, but fun to do yourself too if your into that, and likely a bit cheeper if you do the installs.
 
Had an early gen 1… was a little finicky and had an issue where the case deflector was throwing spent cases back into the action and jamming every few rounds. Fixed it with a JB weld modification and was reliable after that. Cool design and the folding feature was nice, definitely made some sacrifices to make that work. I think they fixed the cycling issue by the late Gen 1 models and then the early Gen 2 had issues with the front sight coming loose and rotating around the barrel which was eventually fixed as well. Get the newest one you can find to have those kinks worked out. It really begs for a red dot and there was no good mounting solution where you could still fold it, if you can find a solution to that would be an awesome setup.
 
Well I pulled the trigger on it, just placed the order with Bud's Guns. Gen 2 for G17 mags in 9mm. Some things in my life are not going so well right now and I decided **** it, I want that if the shit hits the fan.
 
rcems2000 said:
Look at this website below. Mcarbo installs upgraded parts in the sub2000 and sells complete packages that come with lifetime warranty.

www.mcarbo.com

M*CARBO

Precision CNC Machined American Made Firearm Performance Parts. Superior Aftermarket Firearm Performance Parts Manufactured by Combat Veterans to meet strict Combat Ready Expectations! M*CARBO - MILITARY CARBINE BROTHERHOOD. A COMMUNITY OF VETERANS, POLICE OFFICERS AND 2ND AMEMDMENT PATRIOTS!
www.mcarbo.com www.mcarbo.com
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I see where I can go for upgrades! But that will be some time down the road.
 
Anybody know if this can shoot 9mm NATO? I have a 150 round box of the stuff I bought some time ago.
 
That should just be standard 9mm luger/parabellum right? I have installed most of the MCarbo upgrades on the one I picked up. They do make a difference. You can also get Kel-Tec to install the MCarbo stuff as well. I have a G17 version.
 
ChickenHawk said:
That should just be standard 9mm luger/parabellum right? I have installed most of the MCarbo upgrades on the one I picked up. They do make a difference. You can also get Kel-Tec to install the MCarbo stuff as well. I have a G17 version.
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From what I heard the NATO round is 124 grains and with a bit more powder.
 
Stogies said:
From what I heard the NATO round is 124 grains and with a bit more powder.
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I would imagine you should be fine. If your worried, you could check the owners manual.... but im betting you are fine. I ran Nato spec ammo in my boringly reliable gen 1 back in the day.

I kinda want a new one.... I miss that old thing.
 
A few thoughts after examining it for a bit:

Length of pull adjustment could be easier, it took me a while to get that dang pin lined up properly and back in the first time around.

You have to put some oomph into pulling the charging handle, I suppose that will probably break in a bit with time.

Trigger may be said to be around 10 lbs but it feels quite serviceable to me.

The sights really are a bit low but I intend to throw a red dot on it anyway.

Folded super compact and overall very lightweight.
 
How are you guys placing red dots on yours?
 
First reassembly was a bit of a task, they forgot to mention that on new guns it takes a bit of pressure to get the bolt all the way back in even if everything is lined up correctly.
 
You have a few options to mount a red dot.
1) Mount the dot and give up folding the rifle
2) Mcarbo makes a folding mount for about $150
3) Midwest industries makes a mount that swivels out of the way that’s also $150
4) Use a 45 degree mount. Downside is it’s no longer flat when folded but it works. I did this for about a year or so
5) Mount your red dot on a quick detach mount and when you fold it just reattach it underneath the hand guard. This is my current set up and seems to work pretty well. I’ve noticed no noticeable shift in my zero but it’s not a precision rifle anyway. It’ll keep everything in 6” or less at 50 yds even after remounting the sight several times.

The Midwest and Mcarbo mounts are supposed to be good but I paid $300 for my rifle a few years ago and can’t stomach spending $150 on a mount for it.
 
Stogies said:
First reassembly was a bit of a task, they forgot to mention that on new guns it takes a bit of pressure to get the bolt all the way back in even if everything is lined up correctly.
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That's the only trick. I was stuck there for a while until I had a "just push on it, Alice!" moment and all went together nicely.

I like mine. It's the stainless Glock 17 model and it's insanely light. It's not the most comfy cheek weld I've ever experienced, but it's a 3 or 4 lb PCC that folds. How cool is that?
 
Stogies said:
How are you guys placing red dots on yours?
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I have the mcarbo mount now. It's bulky but it does work and retain zero.

Started with the midwest mount but it would not hold zero at all, not even close. It is considerably less bulky and folds nicer... and is a better option as long as you don't care about the optic actually working for shots past 10 yards.

I've also added the fold down rear sight. You can get away with modifying the OEM one to stay down but I got the one that stays flat when you unfold the rifle and has a little lever to raise it up into position if you want. It's not necessary, you can just co-witness with the dot but it's a nice touch.
 
JohnFreeman said:
That's the only trick. I was stuck there for a while until I had a "just push on it, Alice!" moment and all went together nicely.

I like mine. It's the stainless Glock 17 model and it's insanely light. It's not the most comfy cheek weld I've ever experienced, but it's a 3 or 4 lb PCC that folds. How cool is that?
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Yeah I had watched the Kel Tec assembly video several times and repeatedly did every step just like they did but my spring was still sticking out way too far because the bolt had not gone past the hammer. They really should mention that in the video, just say "make sure the bolt does go past the hammer which on new guns may require a determined push".
 
Okay I really like this thing. 50 rounds brass CCI Blazer, 50 rounds brass 9mm Nato, 100 steel Tula today. 3 malfunctions (double feeds or FTF) with Tula and 33 round mags, maybe the ammo or the mags. Do you guys have seen issues with steel cased ammo?

Neither trigger nor cheek weld or stiffness of charging handle were major turn offs. Sights are better at 25-50 yards than below, we shot steel plates at 50 with ludicrous ease.
 
Stogies said:
Okay I really like this thing. 50 rounds brass CCI Blazer, 50 rounds brass 9mm Nato, 100 steel Tula today. 3 malfunctions (double feeds or FTF) with Tula and 33 round mags, maybe the ammo or the mags. Do you guys have seen issues with steel cased ammo?

Neither trigger nor cheek weld or stiffness of charging handle were major turn offs. Sights are better at 25-50 yards than below, we shot steel plates at 50 with ludicrous ease.
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Yep. No steel or aluminum cased ammo for those. I think it may even be in the manual (?)
 
Stogies said:
Okay I really like this thing. 50 rounds brass CCI Blazer, 50 rounds brass 9mm Nato, 100 steel Tula today. 3 malfunctions (double feeds or FTF) with Tula and 33 round mags, maybe the ammo or the mags. Do you guys have seen issues with steel cased ammo?

Neither trigger nor cheek weld or stiffness of charging handle were major turn offs. Sights are better at 25-50 yards than below, we shot steel plates at 50 with ludicrous ease.
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If I recall steel or aluminum cased ammo is a no no by the manual on my old gen 1.
 
Desolo said:
If I recall steel or aluminum cased ammo is a no no by the manual on my old gen 1.
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You are correct, anybody know why that is? I tried to find that info but what I read was not very definitive.
 
Stogies said:
You are correct, anybody know why that is? I tried to find that info but what I read was not very definitive.
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I am assuming because steel cased ammo will chew up the plastic feed ramp faster than brass cased ammo. I got the stainless feedramp from MCarbo to replace the plastic one.
 
Stogies said:
You are correct, anybody know why that is? I tried to find that info but what I read was not very definitive.
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I always assumed it may have had something to do with the blowback action and cycling issues.
 
ChickenHawk said:
I am assuming because steel cased ammo will chew up the plastic feed ramp faster than brass cased ammo. I got the stainless feedramp from MCarbo to replace the plastic one.
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Would the feed ramp not primarily make contact with the projectile rather than the casing? Would that make that much of a difference?
 
Stogies said:
Would the feed ramp not primarily make contact with the projectile rather than the casing? Would that make that much of a difference?
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I'm the wrong one to ask, but I know it is a wear item on Sub 2000's that get shot a lot. That's what factored into my assumption. You know what they say about assuming though.
 
Aside of the steel ammo questio, does anybody run a suppressor? If yes, which one and how well does it work?
 
Looking for more input from your fellow owners here:

- how often do you clean it?
- must have add ons and things to stay away from?
- ammo yours likes or does not?
- any other tips and tricks for running this thing?
- best reliable mags you have found?
 
Does it take glock mags?
Use factory glock mags.
Profit.

Feed it good quality brass case, clean it when it needs cleaning... the folding barrel makes punching the bore effortless.

Other then that, shoot and enjoy.
 
I've not got a supressor on mine yet, but would like to (looking at that ugly Gen 1 front sight....)

Mine's eaten any 9mm I've put through it. It doesn't seem picky. I'm pretty sure I used Glock factory mags when I shot it. I'm going to have to take it to the range next week and air it out some.
 
Stogies said:
I see where I can go for upgrades! But that will be some time down the road.
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Replace the OEM feedramp with the MCARBO aftermarket feedramp as soon as you can.

Stogies said:
How are you guys placing red dots on yours?
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If you want to retain the folding capability there are several options, but the only truly worthwhile ones are:
* The MCARBO optic mount.
* The Red Lion Precision forend

Stogies said:
Looking for more input from your fellow owners here:

- how often do you clean it?
- must have add ons and things to stay away from?
- ammo yours likes or does not?
- any other tips and tricks for running this thing?
- best reliable mags you have found?
Click to expand...
* I clean mine after every use, but I do that with all my rifles except those I hunt with (because POI shifts slightly between a clean bore shot and a fouled bore shot)
* IMHO must-have as soon as you can (includes feed ramp I mentioned above): https://www.mcarbo.com/kel-tec-sub-2000-all-in-one-pro-performance-trigger-job-bundle.aspx
* Mine eats any ammo I throw at it, but I tend only to feed it brass-cased ammo since steel-cased ammo causes extra wear on extractors (no matter the firearm)
* I run G19, G17, and 33round OEM Glock mags; I don't muck around with non-Glock mags.
 
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How long does the factory feed ramp last? How hard is it to replace?

I was a little weary of digging around in there just yet and I don't really have any complaints about the trigger as is since I use it mostly for fun and plinking.
 
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They are fun handy fold-able PCC's. Kel Tec in general makes some really innovative deigns but often the materials and QC is lacking. That said the Sub 2000 is easy to work on and there are some really good, relatively inexpensive upgrades available from outfits like McCarbo. The frames/stocks are inexpensive hard and plasticy but the important functional parts are generally solid. I would not want one as my only self defense or SHTF weapon but if you have some gun money to spend its a good choice to play with. I have made many upgrades to both of mine (Gen 1 and Gen 2 models). I have heard it said that Kel Tec guns look like they were made in somebody's garage.......this may be true but you can also do all the upgrades in your garage too.........they are pretty simple to tinker with even with basic skill level with firearms.
 

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Stogies said:
How long does the factory feed ramp last? How hard is it to replace?

I was a little weary of digging around in there just yet and I don't really have any complaints about the trigger as is since I use it mostly for fun and plinking.
Click to expand...
Go to the McCarbo site they have really good videos of installation of all their upgrades. If you have basic handyman tinkering skills its relatively easy.
www.mcarbo.com

KEL-TEC SUB-2000 Installation Videos

KEL-TEC SUB-2000 Installation Videos of KEL TEC SUB 2000 Upgrades by M*CARBO! KEL TEC SUB 2000 Disassembly and KEL TEC SUB 2000 Reassembly Tips and Demo by M*CARBO.
www.mcarbo.com www.mcarbo.com
 
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JohnFreeman said:
I've not got a supressor on mine yet, but would like to (looking at that ugly Gen 1 front sight....)
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I borrowed one once for a range trip. I think it was from @amnesia, but not 100% sure if that. It’s a strange looking thing with the can. 😁

EFF774E7-87B2-46FB-BE60-EC7BF5C9C711.jpeg79D75086-5625-40AC-87A2-EE505B63AF99.jpeg08CAFFED-714B-4AA4-9207-2E59DA9B6706.jpeg
 
BigWaylon said:
I borrowed one once for a range trip. I think it was from @amnesia, but not 100% sure if that. It’s a strange looking thing with the can. 😁

View attachment 465688View attachment 465689View attachment 465690
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Well there is always this option...I would agree that it looks a bit off with the silencer adding some lenght.

www.keltecweapons.com

SUB CQB | Folding, Suppressed Carbine in 9mm | KelTec

The SUB CQB offers compact storage and superior pistol caliber firepower. Integrated noise suppression gives a tactical advantage over evil doers.
www.keltecweapons.com www.keltecweapons.com
 
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