Mass EF1 denials happening

At least 5 different "examiners" are involved.
 
They are denying based on materials being a suppressor, but they don’t know what materials anyone has or anticipates acquiring.

@BigWaylon I believe that you get a refund if you get denied, but what if you get approved and then don’t build? I’m tempted to file as an irritant.
 
JimB said:
They are denying based on materials being a suppressor, but they don’t know what materials anyone has or anticipates acquiring.

@BigWaylon I believe that you get a refund if you get denied, but what if you get approved and then don’t build? I’m tempted to file as an irritant.
Click to expand...
Automatic refund if it’s disapproved.

You have three years from the day you pay the tax to request a refund. This can be done on a Form 4 up until the time the transfer is made (4473 from a dealer, or taking possession from a non-dealer), and on a Form 1 if you confirm your never made/modified anything into an NFA firearm.
 
So if I decide I might want to build a F1 at some point and buy a kit but don’t decide to actually go forward with the project for a few months or years, submit my F1, it’s denied on the basis that I’ve already decided to make a suppressor but haven’t yet.

Got it. 👍🏻

I suppose if I buy a spare set of tires, I should just go ahead and title them in case I make them into a car.
 
Is this for all eform 1’s?

Like, my potential sbr on an eform 1 could be denied by these jag offs?
 
In this case, you should read the letter before guessing what it means.

They are assuming that you bought a kit before filing, they have decided that the kit they assume you bought includes parts that are already a suppressor, and so they conclude that you aren’t making a suppressor but trying to paper an illegal transfer.

This is problematic, and MAY inform their response to filing a form 1 to convert a braced pistol into an SBR.

Need to start a suit on this sooner rather than later, or at least file a formal complaint with the agency to get things started.
 
Gaston said:
No, only seems to be affecting suppressors.
Click to expand...
I got a feeling that the ATF is gonna make some more “over reaching” moves in the next few months. I‘m thinking the ATF will start their Form 4999 and go after the SBR/Braced Pistol classification and the “Forced Reset Trigger”/machine gun arguments. There has been so much paperwork and BS filed/issued/etc they can try to bully their way into NFA’izing them. Not saying they will win but the tactics of the leaders seems to be getting more brazened and with filings and with the Public Comments period ending and their “re-evaluation“ or “updating definitions” equine caca I just see a grab for those two things real quick this summer.

The next big grab is being setup now with the definition of what part or parts is actually a firearm … the receiver (like 80% ones and stripped lowers) … other parts they reach for … and so on to screw us in that way. The gun grabbing “piece of the cake” example is getting real thin with each of these new reaches … we’re getting close to only crumbs being left for us.
 
Last edited:
The pistol to SBR aspect is scary to me. Real crapshoot if this is the avenue they are going to take.
 
Squanchy said:
The pistol to SBR aspect is scary to me. Real crapshoot if this is the avenue they are going to take.
Click to expand...
It still fails in court, they would have to assume that you have an SBR under some new definition and that you’re trying to register it as an SBR. The fix is to break it down, or never assemble it, so that it’s only a lower when you file, then the facts don’t match their assumptions.
 
JimB said:
so that it’s only a lower when you file, then the facts don’t match their assumptions.
Click to expand...
All annoying because then would you be required to have notarized witnesses to say yep it's just a lower? It's just he said she said crap before that.

Real annoying when you factor in buying a scorpion or a kp9 when most of the time you see them on the shelf already braced from the factory.

I get it's supposed to be innocent until proven guilty but it doesn't seem to be that way with firearms and law enforcement anymore.
 
Squanchy said:
All annoying because then would you be required to have notarized witnesses to say yep it's just a lower? It's just he said she said crap before that.

Real annoying when you factor in buying a scorpion or a kp9 when most of the time you see them on the shelf already braced from the factory.

I get it's supposed to be innocent until proven guilty but it doesn't seem to be that way with firearms and law enforcement anymore.
Click to expand...

From dealing with another federal agency, the FAA, I have learned that it boils down to "expert" witnesses in court that will allow the court to swing one way or another.

I agree that we are suppose to be innocent until proven guilty but time and time again, I am reading how the ATF does not work that way.

I am just a simple guy. I would think that the ATF would love to have the extra tax dollars they get when we file a Form 1 on making any NFA item.
 
Any link yet to seized past customers lists from the solvent trap companies that have been raided somewhat recently?
 
Johnny said:
Any link yet to seized past customers lists from the solvent trap companies that have been raided somewhat recently?
Click to expand...
Many people being denied said they hadn't purchased from Diversified Machine and never received The Letter.
 
I suggest that folks complain about employee misconduct to the ATF’s internal affairs duty officer.

Report Employee Misconduct | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

ATF takes allegations of misconduct seriously. ATF employees are held to a high standard of conduct and are expected to maintain the highest ethics in both their professional and private lives. The Office of Professional Responsibility and Security Operations, Internal Affairs Division (IAD)...
www.atf.gov www.atf.gov

Be highly offended that the agent/reviewer acted on his or her assumption that you possess an illegal suppressor.
 
GaryS said:
From dealing with another federal agency, the FAA, I have learned that it boils down to "expert" witnesses in court that will allow the court to swing one way or another.

I agree that we are suppose to be innocent until proven guilty but time and time again, I am reading how the ATF does not work that way.

I am just a simple guy. I would think that the ATF would love to have the extra tax dollars they get when we file a Form 1 on making any NFA item.
Click to expand...
X2 on dealing with the FAA.

The less the government knows, the better. That doesn’t mean lie, but it also may behoove you to not be an open book either…

I still never understood how a suppressor is considered a firearm by their definition.
 
AK-Ben said:
X2 on dealing with the FAA.

The less the government knows, the better. That doesn’t mean lie, but it also may behoove you to not be an open book either…

I still never understood how a suppressor is considered a firearm by their definition.
Click to expand...
I'm still trying to figure out how to make a can go bang.
 
Pooper Scooper Cooper must have been left alone at the keyboard again.


Looks like they took it out (when they made SMGs legal?)

It used to be number 10 on the hit parade:

any muffler or silencer for any firearm, whether or not such firearm is
included within this definition---there it is though, buried in the text.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom