Mass EF1 denials happening

JohnFreeman said:
In NC, it's a Weapon of Mass Destruction.
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I am a weapon of mass destruction after enough pinto beans.

By itself, my can just kinda sits there. Maybe they’re scared it can roll off my bench and kill a pinky toe with extreme prejudice?
 
We have the 1934 NFA to thank for defining a silencer as a firearm. I, like everyone else that has responded to this thread do not like that. We need to get together and develop enough political clout to get that changed.
 
Once again, AFT trying to make up their own laws by denying kits or components not 100% made by you. What’s next, you have to extract the ore and create the raw alloy yourself?

What about oil filter adapters? Is an oil filter now a suppressor because it’s a component of an oil filter adapter setup?
 
Seems like yet another reason to just go ahead and be a felon without putting yourself on their list.
 
Landric said:
So if I have an empty two liter bottle, some Styrofoam peanuts, and a roll of duct tape I have an unregistered silencer. Excellent.
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PSA-
20 years ago I was told about putting a 2L over a barrel to muffle the noise. "Cool, I'm gonna try it", slid it over a 308, pulled the trigger, got an enormous blast of gas in the face, the botte took off ~75 yards as I was blinking and rubbing my burning eyes.
The sad part was there wasn't a witness to laugh at my red eyes and blackened face.
 
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I would think they (the ATF) would be trying to find a way for people to purchase a kit to make a silencer so that they can collect $200 for every one that could be turned into a silencer. The FAA allows people to build airplanes as long as the airplane kit has no more than 49% of the work completed. I just see the ATF making it so that only RICH people with money to burn can afford to buy a silencer from a vendor or someone with a machine shop that has a desire to fabricate out of raw material. I like to make things. I can do minor machine work and would be willing to make my own but not really interested in doing all the machine work from raw stock.

I think we need to start creating political clout and get the NFA changed so that we do not need to pay a tax and register with the ATF.
 
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I don’t imagine the ATF thinks in terms of generating revenue, but I could be wrong. I don’t know how their performance is measured, but I think they see themselves as gatekeepers more so than revenue generators, (like the IRS).
 
This isn’t really about going after people who file Form 1s. This is about killing off the companies who make the kits because they are afraid there are a bunch of unregistered suppressors out there that have been built using those kits. The Form 1 applicants are just getting caught in the middle of the power play.

Just my opinion.
 
fieldgrade said:
I don’t imagine the ATF thinks in terms of generating revenue, but I could be wrong. I don’t know how their performance is measured, but I think they see themselves as gatekeepers more so than revenue generators, (like the IRS).
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This. I bet they lose money on each application.

So what do they do if you say that you don’t have any parts, that you’ve been waiting for the stamp to start? Probably not great if you’re on the “bought a wacky fuel filter” lost, but otherwise there doesn’t seem to be much for them to do.
 
don't be so hard on them, those .gov checklisters are just following orders. I mean, when you are forced to choose between your cushy job with benefits and... what was the other thing again? No matter, I think the choice is obvious.
 
The part that should really have people concerned is if they actually attempt to go back and revoke existing Form 1 silencers. That’s gonna be a huge mess…way worse than changing the “rules” going forward.
 
Next on the chopping block are uppers and other parts and 80% everythings.

All bow to the bureautocracy
 
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JohnFreeman said:
Next on the chopping block are uppers and other parts and 80% everythings.

All bow the the bureautocracy
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I do not have a problem doing activities within the confines of the regulations / requirements but I HATE that they keep changing without advance warning much like an ex-wife would.
 
Suddenly, MagLites fly off the shelf again!
 
JohnFreeman said:
Next on the chopping block are uppers and other parts and 80% everythings.

All bow to the bureautocracy
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This is definitely a signal of what they are thinking with regards to any personal manufacturing.
 
cubrock said:
This is definitely a signal of what they are thinking with regards to any personal manufacturing.
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Anybody here ever think you’d look back at 2021 as the good ol’ days for anything firearm related? 😢
 
Is there a potential silver lining? Has it gotten so absurd that it would allow congress to curb the agency’s interpretations?
 
JimB said:
Is there a potential silver lining? Has it gotten so absurd that it would allow congress to curb the agency’s interpretations?
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I've said it once, or a million times. They need to do away with this chevron deference doctrine crap. If the lawmakers we elect and send can't write the laws in an unambiguous way, then they don't need to write any more. Allowing an agency to effectively write laws by "reinterpreting" unclear laws without the people having any representation in said agency is ludicrous. If the law isn't clear, tell the swamp rats to skip the galas, the rounds of golf with lobbyists, and the weeks long vacations to work on their campaigns and do a little bit more burning of the midnight oil. Congress is only in session around 170 days a year; they can do more for what they are getting paid.
 
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I wonder if the ATF will start telling us that a Idaho potato is a silencer part and want us to have a form 4 for our groceries?

 
So. Door to door confiscations coming up?
 
The story from two guys, each paid when they get you to watch their video, one saying that he got it from the other, and neither providing any evidence that this is actually “the final word.” They might be right, but how would we know?

Almost nothing happens in government without a piece of paper, so show us what you have or at least tell us who you spoke with.
 
" They looked at where they got the parts from "

How does ATF know where "the parts" came from? That's not part of the Form IV.
 
JohnFreeman said:
" They looked at where they got the parts from "

How does ATF know where "the parts" came from? That's not part of the Form IV.
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Yeah, that jumped out at me, too.

I do wonder if they are cross-referencing application names with customer lists seized from some of the manufacturers that were raided.
 
cubrock said:
Yeah, that jumped out at me, too.

I do wonder if they are cross-referencing application names with customer lists seized from some of the manufacturers that were raided.
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From what I have read a number of people who have never purchased kits have been denied as well.
 
The LGS discussion has turned to the ATF’s 4999 Firm for determining SBR vs Pistol. The owner who has no skin in the game (in fact the opposite since he’s might miss a sake on a brace) is telling customers to consider Form 1ing a lower so “when the ATF starts the 4999 enforcement” they will have an SBR lower to use their pistol upper(s) on. He is convinced that is their next grab and with DC’s current player mix it won’t be to much longer.
 
JohnFreeman said:
" They looked at where they got the parts from "

How does ATF know where "the parts" came from? That's not part of the Form IV.
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It doesn't matter where or when. ATF has said two things for years, they just connected the dots: 1) you can't buy suppressor parts and 2) if you intend to make a suppressor from it, it's now a suppressor part.
So therefore you can't buy it... to make your suppressor. QED.

Am i reaching here? That's what I get from the little data I have.
 
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Dear eForm 1 applicant,

The National Firearms Act (NFA) Division received your ATF eForm 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm. As a part of the application process, NFA Division must confirm that the making or possession of a firearm would not place the applicant in violation of law.[1]

NFA Division requests that you provide certain additional information so that it may determine whether your eForm 1 application to make a silencer may lawfully be approved. Specifically, please submit to NFA Division the following:

Pictures of the parts that you will use to make the silencer (the pictures should be clear and allow the identification of the parts photographed),

A description of the processes you will use to assemble or fabricate the silencer,

The product, model, or kit name, if any, of each device and/or part that you will use to make the silencer, and

The source from which the parts were obtained, i.e., the name of the store, website, etc.

The additional information may be submitted to NFA Division at the following email address: [email protected]. Please include the form Permit Control Number or eForm ID in the Subject bar for each correspondence with attachments. The additional information may also be sent by mail to:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
 
BigWaylon said:
Dear eForm 1 applicant,

The National Firearms Act (NFA) Division received your ATF eForm 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm. As a part of the application process, NFA Division must confirm that the making or possession of a firearm would not place the applicant in violation of law.[1]

NFA Division requests that you provide certain additional information so that it may determine whether your eForm 1 application to make a silencer may lawfully be approved. Specifically, please submit to NFA Division the following:

Pictures of the parts that you will use to make the silencer (the pictures should be clear and allow the identification of the parts photographed),

A description of the processes you will use to assemble or fabricate the silencer,

The product, model, or kit name, if any, of each device and/or part that you will use to make the silencer, and

The source from which the parts were obtained, i.e., the name of the store, website, etc.

The additional information may be submitted to NFA Division at the following email address: [email protected]. Please include the form Permit Control Number or eForm ID in the Subject bar for each correspondence with attachments. The additional information may also be sent by mail to:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
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Yep. Just got one. Looks like theyre going to get a pic of my mill and my lathe and a pile of metal.
 
BigWaylon said:
Dear eForm 1 applicant,

The National Firearms Act (NFA) Division received your ATF eForm 1, Application to Make and Register a Firearm. As a part of the application process, NFA Division must confirm that the making or possession of a firearm would not place the applicant in violation of law.[1]

NFA Division requests that you provide certain additional information so that it may determine whether your eForm 1 application to make a silencer may lawfully be approved. Specifically, please submit to NFA Division the following:

Pictures of the parts that you will use to make the silencer (the pictures should be clear and allow the identification of the parts photographed),

A description of the processes you will use to assemble or fabricate the silencer,

The product, model, or kit name, if any, of each device and/or part that you will use to make the silencer, and

The source from which the parts were obtained, i.e., the name of the store, website, etc.

The additional information may be submitted to NFA Division at the following email address: [email protected]. Please include the form Permit Control Number or eForm ID in the Subject bar for each correspondence with attachments. The additional information may also be sent by mail to:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
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Awwww….hell no.
 
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