20 years ago you couldnt go around buying threaded tubes and God forbid you'd find a end cap for one. Those were silencer parts and you'd get a visit from the ATF back in the old days when they'd just raid your house and stomp your kitty with a warrant in hand.. A couple of bad PR days later and we have the kinder gentler ATF we have now but theyre just chomping at the bit to put the jackboots back on.
Well I guess I have to mine the ore, smelt it and forge it if you go to extreme with their interpretation of the law.
You can take anything to extremes but thats not what I'm getting out of their recent public statements and list of requirements for form 1s. I happen to have one in the works. We'll see if they grant approval based on the information I sent them.
i agree, but they have no objective requirements for form 1s, only subjective. Like I mentioned earlier, an improvised silencer made out of a 6” cast iron pipe would be illegal without a stamp, you agree? Now would that 6” cast iron pipe and two caps without a hole drilled in them be considered a silencer. If so, the aft better raid Home Depot. That is the equivalent of what they are saying about a solvent trap, it is just the level of finish.
Exactly my point.
Theyve been running the same playbook for a real long time. They have never once said that they allow undrilled silencer baffles to be used to build a form 1 silencer. They have never claimed you could buy tubes or end caps and build a legal form 1 silencer. Hey, Im fine that it took them a long time to get their act together but all theyre doing here is getting back to the rules they instituted decades ago. Questions of constitutionality are for the courts. I dont get to decide that what I feel is constitutional is the way things are. Pleanty of folks have gone through the whole process and decades of case law exist.
That is one of the reasons I hate chevron deference. It encourages lazy legislation. If the law does not specify revise it through the legislative process not through a bureaucratic process that can change with administrations or time. Same thing with the constitution, if you want to change it, go through the amendment process, do not change what it was intended to be by the original drafters by getting an activist court to make a ruling. I have read a lot of court opinions and you can see a lot of the writing twisting things to get to the courts desired outcome.
Nothing some basic CAD capability, access to a makerspace with a CNC machine, some bar stock, and some downloaded CAD models from one of many Internet CAD libraries with validated suppressor CAD models can't replicate.
Me either. That said, just because something is the law doesn't make it 'just' ... and the reality is that there ARE some unjust laws on the books AND there is an unjust organization called the ATF that is actively re-interpreting its previous interpretations because it a) can and b) believes it screwed up on those previous interpretations and now wants to hold individuals other than itself accountable for adhering to its past interpretations/guidance. While you're clearly not willing to stand up for what you may feel is just (because you feel it's not worth it), there are others whose calculus on the matter ends with a very different result ... and some of them are old men to whom life in prison (let alone 1 to 10 years) is relatively meaningless because they're about to kick over, anyway. Men such as that have little to lose or risk ... and much to gain for many others should they stymie or reverse an injustice.
Or, form 1 it and after approval utilize some basic CAD capability, download a CAD model from one of many Internet CAD libraries with validated suppressor CAD models, take some bar stock to your local subscription-based makerspace that has a CNC machine, place your bar stock in the machine, load your CAD model, and watch the machine spit out what you need (engraving and all after your basic CAD work is done) for you to assemble and smile at.
And the 'have a computer-driven machine do all the work to build it for you bandwagon'...
I suspect that lots of threaded tubes are sold every year, the first thing that comes to mind for most people isn’t “hey bet I can make that a suppressor.” But more interesting, do you recall convictions of private individuals 20 or 30 years ago whose only crime was making or buying something with the intention of making a suppressor? I wasn’t paying attention at the time. The only one I can thinkmof was a guy making airgun suppressors and selling them, he got it loads of trouble but that was more than just having parts for one can for personal use.
I was a working 02/07 SOT building integral .22 silencers between 1991 and 2010. The ATF had shut down SWD selling tubes and baffles in 1982 and had formulated the any part of a silencer is a silencer rule . You couldnt buy a threaded tube that was even close to the correct size and certainly nothing that resembled a end cap much less a baffle throughout the 90's and early 2000's. The ATF would routinely send out cease and desist letters to sellers of tubing and hydraulic supplies .
You're funny....If they want to search, they are going to search.
Are you now arguing that the fourth amendment is not a thing, in addition to the second? Illegal searches render any discovered "evidence" inadmissible in a court of law. Fruit of the poisonous tree. Good way for the victim to make some money from the state, in addition to getting all of his lawyers fees back. Not all of us lube up and bend over for the state by consenting to searches, although I'm sure you probably do, because you have already indicated (correct me if I am wrong) that you don't care about your rights and do whatever agents of the state want you to do.
That threaded metal tubes were silencers in and of themselves. That silencer baffles are silencers in and of themselves. Why don't you show where the ATF has ever claimed that something that was purchased to become a silencer baffle (intent) was not a silencer baffle because it did not have a hole in it.
Can you think of one where they got a conviction for an individual that wasn’t selling parts or that hadn’t actually assembled a functioning suppressor?
It's generally a charge stacking thing. I've known two people who were charged with constructive intent when the prosecutors had other things they were charging them with anyway, I was living in the Pac NW during the Ruby Ridge era when the ATF came through western WA with a vengeance and locked up people I knew and tried to do the same with me. Its not an abstract to me. Seriously, cross your T's and dot your I's with those guys. Theres always a legal way to get what you want.
As of now you have two choices. Build one according to the regulations they put out or don't build one according to the regulations they put out. What you feel about that makes no difference to them. You get a stamp or you dont.
Why is this so hard to understand? You dont send them a pic of stuff you have to build with. You send them pics of and links to stuff you will buy if your form 1 is approved....
Like what Quiet Bore was doing? They started out selling solvent traps to anyone who wanted one, and then after a visit from ATF, changed to selling 'high quality' Form 1 products but required an approved Form 1 to complete the order. It seems to me that they had approval from ATF to sell their kits.
www.quietbore.com
I think they are probably as wrapped up in this as anyone, but trying to be cooperative to minimize their damage. If ATF has determined that the kits are suppressors then the company can’t sell them directly to individuals (except maybe in their home state?) even if those individuals have filed a form 1. Enforcement is of course at their discretion, so by playing nicely quietbore may hope to maintain some vestige of the argument that they were following the law just as they are today. it’s not much, but it might be enough to stay out of the spotlight. Just my guess, I know nothing.Like what Quiet Bore was doing? They started out selling solvent traps to anyone who wanted one, and then after a visit from ATF, changed to selling 'high quality' Form 1 products but required an approved Form 1 to complete the order. It seems to me that they had approval from ATF to sell their kits.
Their web site is still up and running but they're not accepting any orders.
Home - Quietbore.com
