Purchase Permit Taking Weeks!

SublimeShredder

SublimeShredder

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So I applied for a PPP on Mar. 28th (Harnett County) and still waiting for the email to go pick it up. Found a used one I wanted to pick up for a decent price and boredom made me buy, haha.

I'm posting this to get some info out there in case others are waiting on permits....and I just had to vent and complain.

I hate wait times. I am envious of those that get cleared on the spot. Must be nice!

Whenever I fill out 4473s I've never been cleared "right away...." as some of us lucky ones do. But usually it'll take no longer than 2 or 3 days. I'm a Jr. and I think that might have something to do with it, no clue.

I'm just going to get a PIN at this point although that might or might not help.

What I am wondering is:

Is the hold up with the sheriff's office on the PPP? In which case the PIN won't speed anything up in the future.

and

Should I just typically expect to wait this long every time I buy a pistol?
 
I'm new to this area, but I'm guessing you are going to get the message that you really just need a carry permit. Bypass the ppp.
And coming from a state with a FOID requirement and a mandatory 3 day wait even though you already have a gun at home, in the car and on your hip...do everything you can to encourage the state to drop the ppp. It's a building block for further infringement. In ILLINOIS the FOID is currently being "fixed" where you would need to renew every 5 years and get fingerprinted just to have a card. People have cards that don't own guns. Outrageous.
 
Tim said:
Get a CHP and be done with it.
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I know a CHP is the way to go. Going for the class soon as this virus bs is over. I had mine when I moved to and lived in FL but due to Irma, life and financial reasons I didn't transfer it in time after moving back here. My FL one is not expired, though void at this point due to not being a FL resident anymore. (at least that is my understanding)

Timfoilhat said:
I'm new to this area, but I'm guessing you are going to get the message that you really just need a carry permit. Bypass the ppp.
And coming from a state with a FOID requirement and a mandatory 3 day wait even though you already have a gun at home, in the car and on your hip...do everything you can to encourage the state to drop the ppp. It's a building block for further infringement. In ILLINOIS the FOID is currently being "fixed" where you would need to renew every 5 years and get fingerprinted just to have a card. People have cards that don't own guns. Outrageous.
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Yes the PPP is ridiculous if you ask me and even the fact that one must get a chp just to avoid it. Things like this do lead to more regulation, infringement etc. and I hope NC can repeal it.

Hopefully this virus has made more people aware of the importance of these rights and enough will start fighting for them to make the changes we need.
 
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But we can’t repel the Pistol Purchase Permits because the NC Sheriffs’ Ass will have hissy fits because they’d lose their ability to protect the good citizens of their county ... and the $5 per that goes with each PPP ;).
 
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NCFubar said:
But we can’t repel the Pistol Purchase Permits because the NC Sheriffs’ Ass will have hissy fits because they’d lose their ability to protect the good citizens of their county ... and the $5 per that goes with each PPP ;).
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I have an idea on how to resolve this, but you won't like it anymore than I do. The cops want their cut. So put an extra $5 tax on FFL purchases. They still get paid, we get to buy without asking mother may I. But it's still infringement and it's still a tax....and taxes only go up. Would probably result in cutting future buyers throats by laying groundwork for future infringement like ammo taxes, entertainment taxes at ranges etc.
 
NCFubar said:
But we can’t repel the Pistol Purchase Permits because the NC Sheriffs’ Ass will have hissy fits because they’d lose their ability to protect the good citizens of their county ... and the $5 per that goes with each PPP ;).
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:D:D

The $5 is just the ultimate kicker. Then with the fees they turn it into 8. haha

Timfoilhat said:
I have an idea on how to resolve this, but you won't like it anymore than I do. The cops want their cut. So put an extra $5 tax on FFL purchases. They still get paid, we get to buy without asking mother may I. But it's still infringement and it's still a tax....and taxes only go up. Would probably result in cutting future buyers throats by laying groundwork for future infringement like ammo taxes, entertainment taxes at ranges etc.
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You know my biggest issue with the PPP's is that it's just a way for them to locally keep tabs on how many pistols someone is buying and potentially has.

I can't get over the thought of the Sheriff's saying "there goes joe buying another pistol, what's that like 20 this year?"
 
SublimeShredder said:
:D:D

The $5 is just the ultimate kicker. Then with the fees they turn it into 8. haha




You know my biggest issue with the PPP's is that it's just a way for them to locally keep tabs on how many pistols someone is buying and potentially has.

I can't get over the thought of the Sheriff's saying "there goes joe buying another pistol, what's that like 20 this year?"
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That's a healthy thought to have. The dealer licensing bill illegally passed in Illinois forces dealers to open their books to local law enforcement without a warrant.
It forces p2p sales to register the sale.
It gives enforcement teeth to one gun a month bills.
 
Timfoilhat said:
That's a healthy thought to have. The dealer licensing bill illegally passed in Illinois forces dealers to open their books to local law enforcement without a warrant.
It forces p2p sales to register the sale.
It gives enforcement teeth to one gun a month bills.
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Gosh! Good thing you don't live there anymore, I could never live in a place like that
 
Timfoilhat said:
Bypass the ppp.
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SublimeShredder said:
Yes the PPP is ridiculous
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Timfoilhat said:
It gives enforcement teeth to one gun a month bills.
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SublimeShredder said:
You know my biggest issue with the PPP's is that it's just a way for them to locally keep tabs on how many pistols someone is buying and potentially has.
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Some of you oldsters of N.C. should tell these "new" folks what the PPP was Really put in place for. Does the term Jim Crow mean anything???
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
Some of you oldsters of N.C. should tell these "new" folks what the PPP was Really put in place for. Does the term Jim Crow mean anything???
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It's the same as the racist trash that started the FOID.
Old mayor Daly in Chicago couldn't have armed Black Panthers collecting on the steps of city hall...they might block the path of donors for his pay to play scams.
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
Some of you oldsters of N.C. should tell these "new" folks what the PPP was Really put in place for. Does the term Jim Crow mean anything???
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I would really appreciate that. I like to know the history behind things and I've looked myself a bit to see the history of the ppp here but haven't found anything in relation to Jim Crow
 
SublimeShredder said:
I would really appreciate that. I like to know the history behind things and I've looked myself a bit to see the history of the ppp here but haven't found anything in relation to Jim Crow
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The "law" was put in place to give the Sheriffs total control who bought guns in their counties. Starting to see now?
 
Yep, the Pistol Purchase Permit law was instituted in 1919 along with other Jim Crow era crap after early Civil Rights rulings started to roll in from higher courts ... the start of “separate but equal” period. In the south the Klan and other bigots in positions of power came up with the PPP things to allow local Sheriffs to be able to control who could buy a pistol. On the surface it wasn’t going to cause white people any problem ... even back in the late 80’s I could walk in to the Sheriff’s office and walk out with PPP’s in 15 minutes. But because the vague wording so Sheriff’s could ask for “references”, turn down applications for believing the person was of good values, etc ... basically they could block anyone if they felt you weren’t of “good moral character” or black.
 
SublimeShredder said:
Should I just typically expect to wait this long every time I buy a pistol?
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A PPP does take a while, at least in Scotland County.
Which is why I got my CC permit eventually.....got tired of begging the sheriff for pieces of paper, and only being able to get 2 at a time.
Get the CC permit, no more hassles for 5 years....LOL....though you have to wait some time to get it, but then you're good to go.
 
SublimeShredder said:
@NCFubar

Thank you I see how it's another result of not thinking forward.

Are the sheriffs still able to deny your permit based on their decision of your moral character?
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Read NCGS 14-404 ... especially (a) & (b) to and you can see it’s possible but not to likely ...

https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-404.html

(a) Upon application, and such application must be provided by the sheriff electronically, the sheriff shall issue the permit to a resident of that county, unless the purpose of the permit is for collecting, in which case a sheriff can issue a permit to a nonresident, when the sheriff has done all of the following:

(1) Verified, before the issuance of a permit, by a criminal history background investigation that it is not a violation of State or federal law for the applicant to purchase, transfer, receive, or possess a handgun. The sheriff shall determine the criminal and background history of any applicant by accessing computerized criminal history records as maintained by the State Bureau of Investigation and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, by conducting a national criminal history records check, by conducting a check through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), and by conducting a criminal history check through the Administrative Office of the Courts.

(2) Fully satisfied himself or herself by affidavits, oral evidence, or otherwise, as to the good moral character of the applicant. For purposes of determining an applicant's good moral character to receive a permit, the sheriff shall only consider an applicant's conduct and criminal history for the five-year period immediately preceding the date of the application.

(3) Fully satisfied himself or herself that the applicant desires the possession of the weapon mentioned for (i) the protection of the home, business, person, family or property, (ii) target shooting, (iii) collecting, or (iv) hunting.

(b) If the sheriff is not fully satisfied, the sheriff may, for good cause shown, decline to issue the permit and shall provide to the applicant within seven days of the refusal a written statement of the reason(s) for the refusal. The statement shall cite the specific facts upon which the sheriff concluded that the applicant was not qualified for the issuance of a permit and list, by statute number, the applicable law upon which the denial is based. An appeal from the refusal shall lie by way of petition to the superior court in the district in which the application was filed. The determination by the court, on appeal, shall be upon the facts, the law, and the reasonableness of the sheriff's refusal, and shall be final.

It is possible they could try but if a denied person pushes their denial on a “moral issue” that Sheriff better be able to show some major character flaws to not have the court to overrule the Sheriff’s denial.
 
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Millie said:
A PPP does take a while, at least in Scotland County.
Which is why I got my CC permit eventually.....got tired of begging the sheriff for pieces of paper, and only being able to get 2 at a time.
Get the CC permit, no more hassles for 5 years....LOL....though you have to wait some time to get it, but then you're good to go.
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Thanks Millie I like the way you put it "begging for paper" LOL

Yea I've heard wait times as long as 8 months for the ccp lol, it'll never make sense.

NCFubar said:
Read NCGS 14-404 ... especially (a) & (b) to and you can see it’s possible but not to likely ...

https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-404.html

(a) Upon application, and such application must be provided by the sheriff electronically, the sheriff shall issue the permit to a resident of that county, unless the purpose of the permit is for collecting, in which case a sheriff can issue a permit to a nonresident, when the sheriff has done all of the following:

(1) Verified, before the issuance of a permit, by a criminal history background investigation that it is not a violation of State or federal law for the applicant to purchase, transfer, receive, or possess a handgun. The sheriff shall determine the criminal and background history of any applicant by accessing computerized criminal history records as maintained by the State Bureau of Investigation and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, by conducting a national criminal history records check, by conducting a check through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), and by conducting a criminal history check through the Administrative Office of the Courts.

(2) Fully satisfied himself or herself by affidavits, oral evidence, or otherwise, as to the good moral character of the applicant. For purposes of determining an applicant's good moral character to receive a permit, the sheriff shall only consider an applicant's conduct and criminal history for the five-year period immediately preceding the date of the application.

(3) Fully satisfied himself or herself that the applicant desires the possession of the weapon mentioned for (i) the protection of the home, business, person, family or property, (ii) target shooting, (iii) collecting, or (iv) hunting.

(b) If the sheriff is not fully satisfied, the sheriff may, for good cause shown, decline to issue the permit and shall provide to the applicant within seven days of the refusal a written statement of the reason(s) for the refusal. The statement shall cite the specific facts upon which the sheriff concluded that the applicant was not qualified for the issuance of a permit and list, by statute number, the applicable law upon which the denial is based. An appeal from the refusal shall lie by way of petition to the superior court in the district in which the application was filed. The determination by the court, on appeal, shall be upon the facts, the law, and the reasonableness of the sheriff's refusal, and shall be final.

It is possible they could try but if a denied person pushes their denial on a “moral issue” that Sheriff better be able to show some major character flaws to not have the court to overrule the Sheriff’s denial.
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I had read that in the statutes and that's why I was wondering if that is something they still commonly cite as denials. As you said it seems it would be difficult for them to deny on that basis. Because as I see it proof of moral character deficiencies usually come in the form of criminal records, citations etc.

Maybe one day the laws will be written clearly haha! :D:D:D

Just had a thought.....wouldn't it be rough to have dated the sheriff's daughter and then need to apply for permits
 
SublimeShredder said:
Yea I've heard wait times as long as 8 months for the ccp lol, it'll never make sense.
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Mine didn't take 8 months, it was a couple of months....beats begging, though! lol.
Not to mention...less trips to the sheriff.....that's always a good thing, right?
 
SublimeShredder said:
@NCFubar

Thank you I see how it's another result of not thinking forward.

Are the sheriffs still able to deny your permit based on their decision of your moral character?
Click to expand...
As of two years ago in Alexander county the were.
My friend had a couple of interactions with le due to fights when he got out of the military but was never charged and a complaint he made directly to the sheriff about traffic control at his daughters school. when he applied for a ppp they used the moral character clause to deny him.
He appealed, showed the judge his medals and letters of commendation.
Judge over ruled the sheriff's decision and issued an order that the sheriff issue
My friend a ppp or be found in contempt
 
S4f said:
As of two years ago in Alexander county the were.
My friend had a couple of interactions with le due to fights when he got out of the military but was never charged and a complaint he made directly to the sheriff about traffic control at his daughters school. when he applied for a ppp they used the moral character clause to deny him.
He appealed, showed the judge his medals and letters of commendation.
Judge over ruled the sheriff's decision and issued an order that the sheriff issue
My friend a ppp or be found in contempt
Click to expand...

Darn. See those are the exact types of situations I was wondering and worried about. Glad the court did the right thing for him. But a shame that his time was wasted. In fact if they want that law they should also have penalties for wrongful denials such as this I think.
 
S4f said:
As of two years ago in Alexander county the were.
My friend had a couple of interactions with le due to fights when he got out of the military but was never charged and a complaint he made directly to the sheriff about traffic control at his daughters school. when he applied for a ppp they used the moral character clause to deny him.
He appealed, showed the judge his medals and letters of commendation.
Judge over ruled the sheriff's decision and issued an order that the sheriff issue
My friend a ppp or be found in contempt
Click to expand...
Sad thing is the Sheriffs actually have less to say in issuance of Concealed Handgun Permits than they do in Pistol Purchase Permits ... yep, there have been a couple cases where citizens get their CHP after having a problem with PPP’s because the Sheriff as more specific instructions on how he has to issue CHP’s ... and moral character is not part of it! He is given about a dozen and half reasons why he can under ...

https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_54B.html

... and but his being satisfied of your character ain't one of those listed. That said there have been some cases take to court by a person denied for the judge to decide ... I am not up on the numbers of those denials or overturned though but still it show a few Sheriffs do try and let their own judgement slip in there.
 
SublimeShredder said:
I would really appreciate that. I like to know the history behind things and I've looked myself a bit to see the history of the ppp here but haven't found anything in relation to Jim Crow
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The PPP law was originally Chapter 197 of the Public Laws and Resolutions of the State of North Carolina passed by the General Assembly at its Session of 1919 (copy attached below since you like history).

The law originally prohibited the sale of "any pistol, so-called pump-gun, bowie knife, dirk, dagger or metallic knucks" without a permit attesting to a person's "good moral character" (needless to say, black people need not apply).
 

Attachments

  • NCGA Session Law 1919 Ch 197 Original PPP law.PDF
    340.6 KB · Views: 2
What does the original intent matter? It affects everyone now.

If enough Sheriffs get voted out for infringing on everyone's rights they might get the message. More to the point, voters outnumber sheriffs and LEOs in general by a large margin...cops should not be in any position to dictate your rights.
 
@SublimeShredder
I’d like to make a point you might not have considered. Sorry to take a different side from my CFF colleagues but, this is based on my experience.

If you’re at all compulsive, as I am, you may find a CHP (NC Concealed Handgun Permit) to be the most expensive mistake you could ever make. :eek:
 
Wife and I are still waiting on our CHP. Oklahoma did not have this purchase permit stuff to put it nicely. You got checked properly and were allowed to purchase. I have no issue with being checked. We both had carry permits for years but that wasn't required or to go talk to a local sheriff and ask dad for permission, and be checked.
We believe the Carry Permit process has been delayed as well, which was why I replied to the thread. We started in Feb after meeting all the requirements to be able to start the process.
Oklahoma has since went to an open carry process but it's recommended, and I agree, to still keep/get your permit for out of state issues.
 
gc70 said:
The PPP law was originally Chapter 197 of the Public Laws and Resolutions of the State of North Carolina passed by the General Assembly at its Session of 1919 (copy attached below since you like history).

The law originally prohibited the sale of "any pistol, so-called pump-gun, bowie knife, dirk, dagger or metallic knucks" without a permit attesting to a person's "good moral character" (needless to say, black people need not apply).
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Thank you for this!
Jeppo said:
@SublimeShredder
I’d like to make a point you might not have considered. Sorry to take a different side from my CFF colleagues but, this is based on my experience.

If you’re at all compulsive, as I am, you may find a CHP (NC Concealed Handgun Permit) to be the most expensive mistake you could ever make. :eek:
Click to expand...

LOL! I may or may not have the same problem

Diablos said:
Sorry, all available law enforcement is busy ensuring compliance with the governors social distancing policies. Your privilege will have to wait.
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True! The sheriff's in my county have been out and very prevalent lately, which isn't a bad thing... I'm just thankful our state isn't as bad as some of the other areas.
 
SublimeShredder said:
Thank you for this!


LOL! I may or may not have the same problem



True! The sheriff's in my county have been out and very prevalent lately, which isn't a bad thing... I'm just thankful our state isn't as bad as some of the other areas.
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Good, now post some #backtheblue memes and proudly fly your thin blue line flag
 
Goofyfoot2001 said:
Did anyone mention South Carolina has no PPP and no car inspections? NO CAR INSPECTIONS let that sink in a minute.

View attachment 205072
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Now not having car inspections is something I really miss about Florida. And there are few things I miss about FL.

jdd0j8zm70211.jpg
 
Been swamped and forgot to update.

Got the permit in this past Friday on the 17th. Not too bad considering. They did say they were still processing March apps and havdn't gotten to April apps at that point.

And boy did he seem tired of processing apps LOL!
 
Submitted a wake application April 20, not even an appointment to drop off mental health waiver yet. So much for the 14 day turnaround
 
I have a CCW renewal being processed with them now, actually, it should be done. Maybe I should check up on it. I'm in there so often they just ask, "What are you buying this time?"
 
The CCW was the best gun thing I have ever done, outside of the privelege of the crown to exercise the right.

No PPP, walk in to a shop, show credentials, easy form, pay and leave. Or, private party, show creds give cash, shake hands (now maybe not) and off we go.
 
Jeppo said:
you may find a CHP (NC Concealed Handgun Permit) to be the most expensive mistake you could ever make.
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I'm curious as to your reason for saying so -- I am not at all disagreeing. (Heck, I carried concealed for 40 years before I even applied for a CHP -- and that for reasons that are ... well ... complicated.)
 
@JT
If I still had to drive over to the Sheriff and ask his permission for each gun, I’d probably have saved a bundle. ;)
 
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