Several Survival/Prepping Questions

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AirForce85

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I would consider myself about a 6.0/10 as it comes to prepping and being prepared. I have a 27 gal tote full of rice/dry beans/canned goods/emergency bars and another 27 gal tote full of first aid/water purfication/fire starting equip/etc, generator, excessive amount of firewood, deep freezer, full pantry and enough gas to get 500 miles or so away. I'd also say I'm well prepared with personal defense and offense capabilities. However, I have a few questions for the experts below:

Is it better to store dried rice/beans (2 lb rice/1 lb beans in original package then double bagged in gallon freezer bags) or canned goods longevity wise?

How long is it okay to keep canned goods beyond the use by date? I just threw out 20 or so cans that expired before 2019 since a couple i could squeeze would crack the seal on the lid or had become easy to squeeze.

Is it better to avoid pop top cans longevity wise?

How long do OTC medicines really last beyond the best used by/expiration date (Sudafed, flu medicine, anti-diarrheal, etc.)?

Any odd first aid items that are good to have in case SHTF? I already have a fair bit of SABC first aid gear.
 
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Someone else can probably answer your questions better than me but just wanted to say, we’re eating 2018 great value canned green beans with no problems here.

I’d just cook a can of your old ones and try them yourself. If the can isn’t rusted, the seal/ceil/ceel isn’t compromised, and there’s no funky smell, I’d think you’d be fine.

Good luck
 
Pbj ak said:
Someone else can probably answer your questions better than me but just wanted to say, we’re eating 2018 great value canned green beans with no problems here.

I’d just cook a can of your old ones and try them yourself. If the can isn’t rusted, the seal/ceil/ceel isn’t compromised, and there’s no funky smell, I’d think you’d be fine.

Good luck
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Yeah, most of the ones I trashed had a little rust. I'm going to relocate the totes from my shop to the closet and hope my wife doesn't notice I moved her shoes.
 
AirForce85 said:
Yeah, most of the ones I trashed had a little rust. I'm going to relocate the totes from my shop to the closet and hope my wife doesn't notice I moved her shoes.
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"hope my wife doesn't notice I moved her shoes"

iu
 
Food, water, shelter and heat. You need to determine what event/s you are preparing for and the duration of the event. The LDS manual is as comprehensive as any manual out there, they've been doing this a long time.

In general, foods can be kept a good while in their original packaging so long as they are kept dry, relatively cool and protected from bugs and vermin. If you want to go the next level invest in food grade buckets, desiccants and mylar bags.

As for cans, most of the stuff I've seen in the stores now has pop off tops. I've had a couple fail but that's just life as it exists now. That is a reason that rotation and inspection is critical for both factory and home canned foods. I'm eating bush beans we canned in 2013 and although I look dead I'm really still alive. Ya have to be careful and use your eyes and nose efficiently. If it leaks or stinks dump it. There are certain things we can that we dump every 3 or 4 years or if it looks like its going bad.

Don't forget to store lots-o-water to drink, wash with and flush yer terlit. Set up some rain barrels, easy peasy. Have supplies to make water drinkable.

As for meds (I don't have a pharmacy degree) most of them just loose their potency. A lot of people don't dump their old meds, some will keep them in zip lock bags with dates purchased marked on the bag. I lost the best reference material I had on drug expiration issues. It came out of mil.gov SLED program. I may have to crank up my old computer again to find it which sucks. But the way I look at it in a true SHTF situation any drug that is needed to save a life, the damn victim is gonna die anyway without it, is worth using even if it is expired. If you don't have a PDR or other prescribing information there could be a problem with Rx meds so if you can make sure the prescribing info is left on those bottles. If you have some Rx you want to keep now, do a search on them relative to any toxicity issues. Another problem is you don't want to give somebody something if you don't know whether or not they might be allergic to it.
thepreparednessexperience.com

The Ultimate Prepper First Aid Kit (Full Supplies List)

Having a prepper first aid kit stocked full of crucial supplies is a must if you want to be truly prepared. Find out what to include, and what to leave out.
thepreparednessexperience.com thepreparednessexperience.com

There are hundreds/thousands of first aid supply lists out there. Some are way more advanced than needed unless you have good training to use the stuff. First, do no more harm. Some people buy items that they are not qualified to use but hopefully someone will when the time comes. Buy/download two books in specific; Where There Is No Doctor and Where There Is No Dentist. You can pull good lists of stuff they use in the books.

Fingers are tired of typing............ Carry on.
 
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REELDOC said:
Food, water, shelter and heat. You need to determine what event/s you are preparing for and the duration of the event. The LDS manual is as comprehensive as any manual out there, they've been doing this a long time.

In general, foods can be kept a good while in their original packaging so long as they are kept dry, relatively cool and protected from bugs and vermin. If you want to go the next level invest in food grade buckets, desiccants and mylar bags.

As for cans, most of the stuff I've seen in the stores now has pop off tops. I've had a couple fail but that's just life as it exists now. That is a reason that rotation and inspection is critical for both factory and home canned foods. I'm eating bush beans we canned in 2013 and although I look dead I'm really still alive. Ya have to be careful and use your eyes and nose efficiently. If it leaks or stinks dump it. There are certain things we can that we dump every 3 or 4 years or if it looks like its going bad.

Don't forget to store lots-o-water to drink, wash with and flush yer terlit. Set up some rain barrels, easy peasy. Have supplies to make water drinkable.

As for meds (I don't have a pharmacy degree) most of them just loose their potency. A lot of people don't dump their old meds, some will keep them in zip lock bags with dates purchased marked on the bag. I lost the best reference material I had on drug expiration issues. It came out of mil.gov SLED program. I may have to crank up my old computer again to find it which sucks. But the way I look at it in a true SHTF situation any drug that is needed to save a life, the damn victim is gonna die anyway without it, is worth using even if it is expired. If you don't have a PDR or other prescribing information there could be a problem with Rx meds so if you can make sure the prescribing info is left on those bottles. If you have some Rx you want to keep now, do a search on them relative to any toxicity issues. Another problem is you don't want to give somebody something if you don't know whether or not they might be allergic to it.
thepreparednessexperience.com

The Ultimate Prepper First Aid Kit (Full Supplies List)

Having a prepper first aid kit stocked full of crucial supplies is a must if you want to be truly prepared. Find out what to include, and what to leave out.
thepreparednessexperience.com thepreparednessexperience.com

There are hundreds/thousands of first aid supply lists out there. Some are way more advanced than needed unless you have good training to use the stuff. First, do no more harm. Some people buy items that they are not qualified to use but hopefully someone will when the time comes. Buy/download two books in specific; Where There Is No Doctor and Where There Is No Dentist. You can pull good lists of stuff they use in the books.

Fingers are tired of typing............ Carry on.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. I've got a few survival books and the LDS guide was a good read. Well, I skimmed through it.
 
AirForce85 said:
How long do OTC medicines really last beyond the best used by/expiration date (Sudafed, flu medicine, anti-diarrheal, etc.)?
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I'm not a pharmacist nor chemist, and didn't stay at Holiday Inn last night, but I believe the actual expiration on medicines vary greatly by the medicine. It's not OTC, but EpiPen's efficacy drops off quickly after a year, was told that by a pharmacist. Insulin is another med that needs to be stored properly, but once opened it is only good for about 28 days, also from the pharmacist.

Ask your pharmacist about the ones you have questions about. Might be able to find some info on the interwebs.
 
beamernc said:
I'm not a pharmacist nor chemist, and didn't stay at Holiday Inn last night, but I believe the actual expiration on medicines vary greatly by the medicine. It's not OTC, but EpiPen's efficacy drops off quickly after a year, was told that by a pharmacist. Insulin is another med that needs to be stored properly, but once opened it is only good for about 28 days, also from the pharmacist.

Ask your pharmacist about the ones you have questions about. Might be able to find some info on the interwebs.
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I read that for the majority of meds it's when it loses 10% efficacy that it's considered expired but not sure if that decrease is constant or not.
 
three things we have learned:

1. canned food lasts a long time after expiration dates have past. it does not taste that good, but it is not dangerous.
2. you cannot store enough water. we store water for drinking, other containers for washing, and some more for sanitation.
3. keep all medications. most are small and do not take much room. in desperate times, anything is better than nothing.
 
turkeydance said:
three things we have learned:

1. canned food lasts a long time after expiration dates have past. it does not taste that good, but it is not dangerous.
2. you cannot store enough water. we store water for drinking, other containers for washing, and some more for sanitation.
3. keep all medications. most are small and do not take much room. in desperate times, anything is better than nothing.
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We have a pool and about the only perk I get from it is having a solid water supply I could treat or boil.
 
Pop top cans can fail more quickly than regular cans and more so if not kept at a reasonable temp(55ish)
Meds need a stable temp as well and will last many years but may lose potency.
Beans and rice needs sealed with an oxygen absorber and will go a long time. If sealed in mylar and O2 absorbers you can get 25+ years)
30 gallons of product will take you about 3-4 months depending on consumption. That's one person and add a second and you can half that. Add a relative or neighbor and less still. How about pets?
Most folks have far less stored than what's needed but who really knows.
Get one good water purification device that will clear a few hundred gallons.
Any first aid or trauma kit is better than none regardless of expiration.

R
 
Speaking of water, for long term what’s the most practical way to purify water for drinking from a creek? Boiling? I haven’t tried anything yet, although I did assemble a water purifier from 2-5 gallon buckets and a couple filters. I’m not sure how it will last long term so I probably need to find a plan b.


Edited to add: there are sometimes cows up creek less than a mile. Maybe it’s a dumb question but can you treat that water with possible shat contamination?
 
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Pbj ak said:
Speaking of water, for long term what’s the most practical way to purify water for drinking from a creek? Boiling? I haven’t tried anything yet, although I did assemble a water purifier from 2-5 gallon buckets and a couple filters. I’m not sure how it will last long term so I probably need to find a plan b.


Edited to add: there are sometimes cows up creek less than a mile. Maybe it’s a dumb question but can you treat that water with possible shat contamination?
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I'd say filter and boil, distill or bleach but I don't consider myself an expert either.
 

Water, Chlorine and how to make it safe post SHTF

I researched making water safe with chlorine quite a bit a few months ago and I would like to share what I have found. People have been using the old pool shock, calcium hypochlorite, to do this for some time and it works well except for how caustic it is. It is known to eat through about any...
carolinafirearmsforum.com carolinafirearmsforum.com
 
AirForce85 said:
Is it better to store dried rice/beans (2 lb rice/1 lb beans in original package then double bagged in gallon freezer bags) or canned goods longevity wise?
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Rice has insect eggs inside the packaging when you purchase it, and they will hatch, grow and die while the rice is stored. When you open it later, it will be full of daid bugs. You can avoid this problem by pouring the rice into a 5 gal bucket lined with a heavy trash bag. While you are pouring it in, mix it with food grade diatomaceous earth. Tie off the bag and close the bucket for long term storage. If you have a way of removing the air before closing it up, that helps a lot. Years later, when you open it up, the rice will need rinsing, but it won't have daid bugs in it.
 
MacEntyre said:
Rice has insect eggs inside the packaging when you purchase it, and they will hatch, grow and die while the rice is stored. When you open it later, it will be full of daid bugs. You can avoid this problem by pouring the rice into a 5 gal bucket lined with a heavy trash bag. While you are pouring it in, mix it with food grade diatomaceous earth. Tie off the bag and close the bucket for long term storage. If you have a way of removing the air before closing it up, that helps a lot. Years later, when you open it up, the rice will need rinsing, but it won't have daid bugs in it.
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A lot of times you can see evidence of them if they're in the bag while still on the store shelf. I check my rice after a couple months to see if they've appeared.
 
For rice, dried beans, grits, pasta, Oats, popcorn etc you can stored loose in food grade plastic containers with nitrogen. I use 2 liter drink bottles, 2 ,3, and 5 gallon buckets.
I also use Mylar bags with 02 absorbers. I store the Mylar bags in buckets as well.
If using nitrogen it must be food grade.
 
I'm going to point out a few things i'm pretty sure I didn't see mentioned above.

Regarding water to flush with...use grey water that was used to wash with for this task. Also, be aware that there will come a point when the "lift stations" become unattended and the poop in the pipes will back up. Expect this sooner rather than later once city services end if you don't have private septic. If you're city based it might make sense to have plugs on hand to block the drains so the house you're "dug in" to remains livable. Also, having a few buckets of kitty litter provides a workable waste solution. You can crap into the bucket and cover with litter then cover the bucket. It'll still be nasty, but improved over not having the litter, and better than going ourside and being vulnerable squatting over a cat hole.

Bugs in rice are added protein.

Having enough gas to get 500 miles doesn't mean you'll get very far unless you move out before the hoarde catches on. Expect roads to be blocked with everybody else that had gas in their truck too.

A freezer full of meat means you'll be eating meat as fast as you can (or trading it for essentials that others don't know the value of yet) when the gas for the generator runs out.
 
Timfoilhat said:
I'm going to point out a few things i'm pretty sure I didn't see mentioned above.

Regarding water to flush with...use grey water that was used to wash with for this task. Also, be aware that there will come a point when the "lift stations" become unattended and the poop in the pipes will back up. Expect this sooner rather than later once city services end if you don't have private septic. If you're city based it might make sense to have plugs on hand to block the drains so the house you're "dug in" to remains livable. Also, having a few buckets of kitty litter provides a workable waste solution. You can crap into the bucket and cover with litter then cover the bucket. It'll still be nasty, but improved over not having the litter, and better than going ourside and being vulnerable squatting over a cat hole.

Bugs in rice are added protein.

Having enough gas to get 500 miles doesn't mean you'll get very far unless you move out before the hoarde catches on. Expect roads to be blocked with everybody else that had gas in their truck too.

A freezer full of meat means you'll be eating meat as fast as you can (or trading it for essentials that others don't know the value of yet) when the gas for the generator runs out.
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Yeah, I've considered the last two. We have septic and a well so not tied to the system there. I agree if I were to leave it would have to be before shit fully coated the fan and yeah the meat might last a week or two. We keep a dozen gallons of frozen water in the bottom to help keep things frozen longer if we lose power.
 
I had to jump in with a question of my own. I see all these guys on line putting rice, beans, etc in one big mylar , in 5 gal buckets but, wouldn't it be better to use 1/2 gal or 1 gal mylar bags in the bucket so you don't open all your rice at once?
 
Pinebox said:
I had to jump in with a question of my own. I see all these guys on line putting rice, beans, etc in one big mylar , in 5 gal buckets but, wouldn't it be better to use 1/2 gal or 1 gal mylar bags in the bucket so you don't open all your rice at once?
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Yep.
 
Pinebox said:
I had to jump in with a question of my own. I see all these guys on line putting rice, beans, etc in one big mylar , in 5 gal buckets but, wouldn't it be better to use 1/2 gal or 1 gal mylar bags in the bucket so you don't open all your rice at once?
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i would have thought so.
then again, i used a 50lb bag of rice for years. I just opened it, scooped out a cup or two, clipped it closed again. stored in a michigan basement, so mildly humid and 65ish
 
I finally got my mylar and 02 absorbers in the mail, after every postman from here to Colorado got together and kicked the s*** out of the package. Anyway, all my rice, beans... packed up nicely but, the two bags I put spaghetti noodles in didn't seem to absorb at all. I used 1 gal bags and 1000cc absorbers. Any thoughts?
 
in terms of cost...actual dollars....would it be cheaper (not better) to buy a 5-lb bag of rice
every year and discard the old bag, rather than buy buckets and mylar and everything else
to store for 10 years (dollar-cost-averaging)?

again: money.
not time.
cheaper?
 
Pinebox said:
I finally got my mylar and 02 absorbers in the mail, after every postman from here to Colorado got together and kicked the s*** out of the package. Anyway, all my rice, beans... packed up nicely but, the two bags I put spaghetti noodles in didn't seem to absorb at all. I used 1 gal bags and 1000cc absorbers. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

It is possible the seal isn't 100%, or try 2 absorbers next time if is there is a lot of dead space in the bag. I wouldn't worry too much about it though, and just eat it in next 2-3 years, then replace it.

turkeydance said:
in terms of cost...actual dollars....would it be cheaper (not better) to buy a 5-lb bag of rice
every year and discard the old bag, rather than buy buckets and mylar and everything else
to store for 10 years (dollar-cost-averaging)?

again: money.
not time.
cheaper?
Click to expand...

The cheapest thing to do is eat it, but yes, storage space can become an issue, and mylar and buckets very well could cost more than the food itself. But it sure will hit the spot if you ever need it, which is well worth it to me. Plus, the more food you keep around, the more mylar makes sense.
 
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AirForce85 said:
I would consider myself about a 6.0/10 as it comes to prepping and being prepared. I have a 27 gal tote full of rice/dry beans/canned goods/emergency bars and another 27 gal tote full of first aid/water purfication/fire starting equip/etc, generator, excessive amount of firewood, deep freezer, full pantry and enough gas to get 500 miles or so away. I'd also say I'm well prepared with personal defense and offense capabilities. However, I have a few questions for the experts below:

Is it better to store dried rice/beans (2 lb rice/1 lb beans in original package then double bagged in gallon freezer bags) or canned goods longevity wise?

How long is it okay to keep canned goods beyond the use by date? I just threw out 20 or so cans that expired before 2019 since a couple i could squeeze would crack the seal on the lid or had become easy to squeeze.

Is it better to avoid pop top cans longevity wise?

How long do OTC medicines really last beyond the best used by/expiration date (Sudafed, flu medicine, anti-diarrheal, etc.)?

Any odd first aid items that are good to have in case SHTF? I already have a fair bit of SABC first aid gear.
Click to expand...
My wife and I dry can our rice beans flour oatmeal grits corn meal…

I have had oats on the shelf for 2 years seals still good, and cooks up just fine
 
I’ve read that bugs and eggs in grains and rice can be killed by freezing for a few days, I think maybe true. I’ve also read that they can be killed by removing oxygen, I think most likely true.

Original packaging is reported to be poor for longterm storage, the plastics are gas permeable and the seals are poor. Vac bags, mylar, or glass jars are much better. Ziplocks bags are expensive and I don’t trust them anyway. Soda bottles are convenient, but gas permeable.

I don’t believe that dry canning in an oven works, there isn’t enough heat to drive out most oxygen. Better to seal with an O2 absorber and/or vac. Lots of people do it, so maybe I’m wrong.

It’s easy to get carried away. For a couple hundred bucks a year you can replace a lot of beans and rice, and that may make more sense than figuring out how to store it for decades. Same for most OTC meds and vitamins, although maybe just add to those since they are small. I put beans and rice and steel cut oats in ball jars in the pantry because it looks and stacks better than the original packaging.

Old food that isn’t dangerous is often lacking in nutritional value. Something to fill your stomach.

I’m brand new at this and mostly planning on short-term interruption of utilities and food supply. Don’t forget to store spices.
 
as JimB posts: "Don’t forget to store spices"....
and dry GRAVY mix. gravy makes it better.
 
For bulk stuff, the mylar 5 gal bags seem to be a waste. Sure it'll store for a long time. But guess what, when you open it, you now have 25-30lbs of flour/grain to deal with and use.

It's fine to have a decent amount of long term storage. But generally, buy extra and rotate stock. Also, for most of us in the Carolinas, we don't have basements, so either a conditioned garage, closet or you have extra rooms, storing a lot can be tricky. Storing in an unconditioned garage can degrade food.
 
Pinebox said:
I finally got my mylar and 02 absorbers in the mail, after every postman from here to Colorado got together and kicked the s*** out of the package. Anyway, all my rice, beans... packed up nicely but, the two bags I put spaghetti noodles in didn't seem to absorb at all. I used 1 gal bags and 1000cc absorbers. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Why do you think the 1 gallon bags did not seal? Oxygen is 20% of your air volume and 1000cc is adequate for that size. The bag may still have air in it but its gtg. There is very little interstitial space(air between pieces) with spaghetti so your protected.
If you still can't sleep nights cut a small corner off bag, slide another absorber in and reseal.
R
 
I am no expert, but ate a can of Brunswick Stew a few week’s ago with a 2019 expiration date. It was fine. Pretty sure canned food will last a long freaking time if the can’s aren’t compromised in some way. As with most food smell it before you eat it. I have food stored inside in fairly climate controlled and stable rooms So maybe that helps. Maybe stock a mix of freeze dried camping type food with your normal stash.
 
Wow. Reading this thread throws me back several years, before I moved to the country. And everything changed...

The LDS manual was a must have that I recommended to anyone thinking about prepping.

Some foundational stuff...

As someone else mentioned, stock deep and rotate. Don't put away stuff you're not going to eat and potentially throw away. And it's just as bad if you don't really like the stuff. You're going to get tired of rice and beans every night. Stock what normally like and eat then stock a lot of it and rotate FIFO. You don't have to buy special survival food. Let's say you eat basic spaghetti, noodles and canned sauce once a week. For a years supply, you'll need 52 cans of sauce an 52 packs of noodles, plus 52 of whatever you add. If you rotate through, nothing is more than a year old. Do this with each of your days meals.
But, in the long run, you'll never store enough to survive forever. Think sustainability, a garden. Something, that can be renewed every year.

Most things last much longer than the date on the package. We called Hormel once, asking about how long SPAM can go, before it goes bad. Their answer, it doesn't. Actuall shelf life is indefinite.

But, there are a multitude of other serious factors to consider, if it hits the fan. If you're the only house on the block with lights and odors from cooking food, others are going to notice. And if for some reason you have to bug out, how much are you, can you, take with you? When the 10yr old little girl from next door, who was just orphaned comes knocking on your door for food, are you going to turn her away, while you go back to your rice and beans?
 
georgel said:
Wow. Reading this thread throws me back several years, before I moved to the country. And everything changed...

The LDS manual was a must have that I recommended to anyone thinking about prepping.

Some foundational stuff...

As someone else mentioned, stock deep and rotate. Don't put away stuff you're not going to eat and potentially throw away. And it's just as bad if you don't really like the stuff. You're going to get tired of rice and beans every night. Stock what normally like and eat then stock a lot of it and rotate FIFO. You don't have to buy special survival food. Let's say you eat basic spaghetti, noodles and canned sauce once a week. For a years supply, you'll need 52 cans of sauce an 52 packs of noodles, plus 52 of whatever you add. If you rotate through, nothing is more than a year old. Do this with each of your days meals.
But, in the long run, you'll never store enough to survive forever. Think sustainability, a garden. Something, that can be renewed every year.

Most things last much longer than the date on the package. We called Hormel once, asking about how long SPAM can go, before it goes bad. Their answer, it doesn't. Actuall shelf life is indefinite.

But, there are a multitude of other serious factors to consider, if it hits the fan. If you're the only house on the block with lights and odors from cooking food, others are going to notice. And if for some reason you have to bug out, how much are you, can you, take with you? When the 10yr old little girl from next door, who was just orphaned comes knocking on your door for food, are you going to turn her away, while you go back to your rice and beans?
Click to expand...

I have been buying a few extra things every week lately pretty much based on what I like and what was on sale. Looked at what I had and realized there weren‘t many things my wife and kids like or enough fruits and veggies. So have started mixing it up. And have actually started eating some of the older stuff. Not super organized but even my slow brain is eventually recognizing common sense and the obvious.
 
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georgel brings up a good point....neighbors.
we had neighbor "issues" (not bad) during the ice storm of 2002.

here is the story:
we had the only "olden days" POTS land-line. cell towers were either
damaged, down, or off-line. cellphones ran out and could not be recharged.
(same with laptops, modems, etc.) anyway, folks came to us to make phone calls.
since we had prepped beforehand, we had little else to do but be the "answering machine"
(no power anywhere) when the return calls were received. the neighbors were good about it.
everyone politely took turns and some helped me out in other ways, like chainsaw work.

back to food:
think about if you want to put away a little extra for others.
we did that before the storm and continue to do so.
 
Oven canning is to eliminate bugs not oxygen. Pop an o2 absorber in before you put the lid on to be double sure.

O2 absorbers and mylar bags in buckets are pretty solid for storage; smaller bags so you open less at a time us a good idea depending on how much you use. There are a bunch od us so 5 gal bags are ok.

To seal mylar bags we use an old flat iron for straightening hair my wife donate to the cause. Cheaper and a WIDE seal; it's much easier to use.

Water filtration with a berkey system will clean up your stream water. For portable systems Sawyer mini filters are pretty close in quality of water and as long as you backflush to keep it from clogging can filter tens of thousands of gallons.

Store powdered bleach for purification; liquid bleach breaks down over time even if the bottles are not opened.

Survivalblog.com has tons of info if you have the patience to find it.

Our YouTube channel covers some homesteading stuff if you're interested. Oldwaysnewtimes is the channel name.

Hope this helps...

CB
 
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