So how do you old guys manage to shoot tight groups?

Red Marley said:
This is a serious question. I'm talking about iron sights, no optics. Not extreme long range, say 100 yards. The rifle almost doesn't matter. By futzing around with glasses (diopter lenses on my shooting glasses) I can see the front sight OK, but when I do, an 8" target is just a fuzzy gray blob with undefined edges, almost entirely obscured by the front sight. How the heck do you put the sight in the same place twice?
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6 o'clock hold with the blob sitting on top of your sight. Adjust elevation until you are hitting the center. A Jewell trigger with the lightest spring you are comfortable with is also a big help. Good front and rear rest like Caldwell Rock BR front rest and Protektor Model rear bag with tall ears.
 
jimmyjames8 said:
6 o'clock hold with the blob sitting on top of your sight. Adjust elevation until you are hitting the center. A Jewell trigger with the lightest spring you are comfortable with is also a big help. Good front and rear rest like Caldwell Rock BR front rest and Protektor Model rear bag with tall ears.
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Uhmm... No, but maybe I'm doing it wrong

IMG_20210829_113037.jpg

Kibler Colonial Longrifle. Most muzzleloaders do not play nice with sandbags front and rear. There's a reason for German silver or brass front posts and that's so you can see it on target.

One other thing to keep in mind is cant. If you're canting the rifle, it will throw shots low and to the side.
 
Red, I think as card-carrying cerified old guys, we all reach the point that iron sights on long arms just won't work for us. The answer is optical sights. There are excellent no drill scope mounts for Lee Enfields and Mausers, and red dot mounts for M1s for example. We don't have to surrender to old age: adapt and overcome!
 
I use relativistic ammo, by Lorentz. This is how I get contracted groups.

1639256499661.png
 
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rufrdr said:
Red, I think as card-carrying cerified old guys, we all reach the point that iron sights on long arms just won't work for us. The answer is optical sights. There are excellent no drill scope mounts for Lee Enfields and Mausers, and red dot mounts for M1s for example. We don't have to surrender to old age: adapt and overcome!
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Not an option in the type of competition I shoot. It's irons or you don't play.

One work around I've found is to wear 1.0 readers to get the front post sharpened up and on top of that, I use a Merit adjustable aperture on the glasses. Everything is pretty much in focus. Here's a link to one-

Merit Adjustable Apertures - Peep Sighting Adjustable Peep for Aperture Sights and Eyeglasses, Sight Focus

Apertures that tune the focal length of your sight picture for the clearest, and sharpest image
www.eabco.com

Group is 10 shots offhand at 50yds from an 1863 Remington Contract aka "Zouave". It was a gun I was working on setting up for the Scouts to use when we're doing our muzzleloading instruction. Yes, the Scouts shoot it each session, some better than others. When one of the kids whines about not being able to hit anything and blames the gun, he'll be treated to this picture and I'll take the gun from him and blow the center out of his target. The squares on the target are 1in so the offhand group at 50yd is a bit over 2in meaning it's roughly a 4moa group. If it can't hit anything, it's not work using to teach anything. I'm thinking the pair work fairly well-
IMG_20190615_132026.jpg
 
Red Marley said:
This is a serious question. I'm talking about iron sights, no optics. Not extreme long range, say 100 yards. The rifle almost doesn't matter. By futzing around with glasses (diopter lenses on my shooting glasses) I can see the front sight OK, but when I do, an 8" target is just a fuzzy gray blob with undefined edges, almost entirely obscured by the front sight. How the heck do you put the sight in the same place twice?
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I use the lollipop method. I see the target as a lollipop and place the front sight post where I believe a stick on a lollipop would be. Fire for effect, inspect & adjust.
 
nbkky71 said:
This is mainly geared toward the AR and M1/M1A but look into the MISO Lens. It’s an insert that is supposed to bring everything into clarity

Iron Sight Opics

www.ironsightoptics.com

When I shot irons on my A2 service rifle I used a Bob Jones lens insert in my rear sight
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That’s pretty slick.
 
Honest answer when shooting iron sites. The only way I can shoot really tight groups is by utilizing the sling as a stabilizer like I was taught on a KD course years ago.

We’re talking removing it from the buttstock ans putting it tight around your offhand bicep and so short you have to force the butt into your shoulder.

Then as long as your shooting position is stable you will put rounds on top of one another.

From a rest I use a rice filled sock to keep the stock steady front and back.
 
As Dave mentioned a set of 1.0 reading glasses and practice helped me the most. Upper body strength is also very important. I have found shooting one shot groups is the way to go.:)
 
Red Marley said:
This is a serious question. I'm talking about iron sights, no optics. Not extreme long range, say 100 yards. The rifle almost doesn't matter. By futzing around with glasses (diopter lenses on my shooting glasses) I can see the front sight OK, but when I do, an 8" target is just a fuzzy gray blob with undefined edges, almost entirely obscured by the front sight. How the heck do you put the sight in the same place twice?
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Hi Red, just wondering if you shot that pretty frontloader yet? What I do is use a bright orange dot on my NMLRA targets when I am zeroing or trying for a precise load. This helps me repeat each shot and keeps me from wandering before each shot. I use the 6 o'clock hold so the orange dot stands out. A old shooter told me to always practice keeping eyes on target even after pulling trigger, kinda like hitting a golf ball keep eye on the ball.
 
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1.0 power readers
Better sights if possible
6 Oclock hold
nice trigger
Dry fire, dry fire, Dry fire
Trust the sight picture, and treat the trigger like a lover
Do some training with folks who shoot a lot better than you, it really helps.
My .02 dollar worth. It may not even be worth that!

Come up to the mountains and I'd be happy to help if I can.
 
COTTON said:
Hi Red, just wondering if you shot that pretty frontloader yet? What I do is use a bright orange dot on my NMLRA targets when I am zeroing or trying for a precise load. This helps me repeat each shot and keeps me from wandering before each shot. I use the 6 o'clock hold so the orange dot stands out. A old shooter told me to always practice keeping eyes on target even after pulling trigger, kinda like hitting a golf ball keep eye on the ball.
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Cotton, I've shot it and it shoots good! I'm not suggesting that I have perfect technique, but my trouble is not with squeezing off a round and following through, it's with focusing on a small target at 100 yards when I have my vision corrected to see the rifle sights. Your suggestion of an orange dot is a great idea and I'll give it a try!

I've adapted a MISO lens to the sights on my Enfield No. 4s and it works very well for me https://carolinafirearmsforum.com/index.php?threads/adapting-a-miso-lens-to-enfield-no-4.105254/.
Doesn't seem right to put one on a muzzleloader though :p
 
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VOD Tactical said:
1.0 power readers
Better sights if possible
6 Oclock hold
nice trigger
Dry fire, dry fire, Dry fire
Trust the sight picture, and treat the trigger like a lover
Do some training with folks who shoot a lot better than you, it really helps.
My .02 dollar worth. It may not even be worth that!

Come up to the mountains and I'd be happy to help if I can.
Click to expand...
I quit using 6oclock some time ago and went to center hold. That puts your point of impact with your point of aim. Otherwise you're trying to put the shot a distance above where you're holding.
 
VOD Tactical said:
@Dave951
You are correct. For some folks, it's easier on the eyes to put the " ball on the post", than to hold halfway. Both work.
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I use 1.0 readers too but I use Merit diopter on them.

Past that, fundamentals and follow through. No magic.
 
I watched a few old geezers shoot Palma last year and they were scary accurate out to 1,000 yards. Not mil surplus but I imagine if you handed them one they could still make it sing beyond where most of us could even see. ;)
 
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