Thoughts on Form 1'ing a Pistol Before August?

JimB said:
Now you’re talking about changing the upper, which is easy enough, I thought we were talking about changes to lowers, my bad.

ATF isn’t dumb, the first unstocked SBR case will be in front of a judge and jury that will agree with them, NY, NJ, CA, WA, DC, etc. Then it holds until there is another case in another federal court that gets a different outcome. Then we do the supreme court dance to see if the boys amd girls in robes want to weigh …..and even if they do, you and I will he long past our shooting days, and probably past our breathing days.
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That's not how a case is brought. The atf is the one who would have a suit brought against them.
 
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DangerRuss said:
So if I have a s&w 15-22 pistol exactly as it came with a brace from the factory, will it suddenly become illegal if not SBR’d, unless I remove the brace?
Would it be legal as purchased, but potentially illegal depending what I add to it?
Flip up sights or fixed sights?
A red dot?
Angled foregrip and/or handstop?
From the factory it looks like this:
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TBD is the only answer at this point…but it does seem entirely possible based on proposed legislation that it was bought as a pistol and ends up being reclassified as an SBR.

FWIW, I have one of those as well. The rest I built as pistols.
 
amnesia said:
I like that my concealed handgun permit allowed me to also treat my AR as a pistol as it rides around with me.
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I can see this being a problem if you are concealing a loaded AR pistol under a seat. But if you have it in, lets say, a grey ghost apparition bag, how is that different from carrying it around in a rifle case. I carry my "unloaded" pistol in a range bag to the range, is it considered a concealed weapon.
 
blewis3 said:
I can see this being a problem if you are concealing a loaded AR pistol under a seat. But if you have it in, lets say, a grey ghost apparition bag, how is that different from carrying it around in a rifle case. I carry my "unloaded" pistol in a range bag to the range, is it considered a concealed weapon.
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I believe there is some nuance about out of reach, locked versus unlock for open carry and if I’m going to the range
Me. said:
Can you or anyone in the vehicle reach the range bag? If so, you are in possession of a concealed handgun. Loaded or unloaded makes no difference, as I read the law.


The difference between the pistol and SBR is there is no legal way where you can carry a concealed SBR. More than anything else, I think this will be the biggest “bummer” if the new rule passes as proposed.

Right now, with a CHP you can carry your SBR braced pistol concealed. If they take away what so many of us use as a pistol, a whole lot of folks who used to carry an AR will no longer be able to do so.



And there is no legal remedy for folks. Your option is to reconfigure the gun as a rifle (that you now can’t conceal), or register it as an SBR (that you now can’t conceal).



Well…. I guess there is one recourse… reconfigure your pistol as a pistol. Whoever makes fin stocks braces (with non-elastic straps) is going to make bank this Christmas season. If you have an opportunity to make a short-term investment in that sort of company…. do it. Make some lemonade out of all this.
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Guess my sbr will have to be out in the open and I’ll take the @BigWaylon route and submit paperwork to take them with me in the surrounded states where legal.

I’m thinking this
C3F0D0DA-C72E-41E2-887E-2D042B5E10B9.jpeg
 
amnesia said:
I believe there is some nuance about out of reach, locked versus unlock for open carry and if I’m going to the range

Guess my sbr will have to be out in the open and I’ll take the @BigWaylon route and submit paperwork to take them with me in the surrounded states where legal.

I’m thinking this
View attachment 471986
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I just read the concealed weapon criminal law in the NCGS. Based on my reading if you are carrying a weapon in a case you are violating the law. I must be missing something.
 
blewis3 said:
I just read the concealed weapon criminal law in the NCGS. Based on my reading if you are carrying a weapon in a case you are violating the law. I must be missing something.
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I think you’ve got it.

Here is my non-lawyer view of it. As long as it’s in a case that an occupant doesn’t have ready access to, then it’s not within my possession and so the concealed weapon law doesn’t apply. For me this is good enough because I tend to avoid doing other dumb things at the same time.
 
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Me. said:
....that is accessible to you or passengers in your vehicle.


For pistols, you're OK if you have a CHP. For any other weapon (including knives and long guns) you're right.

View attachment 472006


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The law allows for a "judgement call" on what concealed means. For example, in a locked case behind the seat of a pickup truck can be considered concealed. It can also be NOT considered concealed.


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If that is the law, having a rifle on a case going into or out of let’s say, Academy sports is a violation. The key question is quickly, does having a SBR (unloaded) in, let’s say, a grey ghost apparition bag walking down the street a violation? If so what is the difference between that and having it in a rifle case. Both are designed for carrying a rifle.
 
While I'd laugh my way out of court about illegaly concealed rifles behind the seat in my single cab truck it would still only take one idiot cop from some place like durham or cary to make a mountain of annoying nonsense. Fudd laws are a pain
 
Me. said:
Yes. Loaded or unloaded makes no difference (as the law doesn't speak to that).


No difference. Both illegal.


Correct.




This is one of those situations where the law has some wiggle room. As JimB said:

People violate the "concealed carry" letter of the law all the time. It's really only when you're doing something else where it becomes a problem for you or the police.

Like having more than 10,000 primers in your home. It's illegal. Maybe. Or it isn't. No one will ever charge you with this violation unless you've done something to draw the attention.

View attachment 472016



If someone wanted to call me out on 10,001 primers, I'd have my lawyer make a big stink about the AND in the sentence. Meaning I can have as many primers as I want unless I have them AND 1lb black powder AND 20 lbs of gunpowder.




You're most likely right. Thing is... if they charged you with that, it was only to go along with the other things they charged you with at the same time. We see it all the time, perp walks on gun charges even if he does time for the other stuff.
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The traffic stop is the problem. Do I just lie when the cop asks about guns in a car?
 
Me. said:
Yes. Loaded or unloaded makes no difference (as the law doesn't speak to that).


No difference. Both illegal.


Correct.




This is one of those situations where the law has some wiggle room. As JimB said:

People violate the "concealed carry" letter of the law all the time. It's really only when you're doing something else where it becomes a problem for you or the police.

Like having more than 10,000 primers in your home. It's illegal. Maybe. Or it isn't. No one will ever charge you with this violation unless you've done something to draw the attention.

View attachment 472016



If someone wanted to call me out on 10,001 primers, I'd have my lawyer make a big stink about the AND in the sentence. Meaning I can have as many primers as I want unless I have them AND 1lb black powder AND 20 lbs of gunpowder.




You're most likely right. Thing is... if they charged you with that, it was only to go along with the other things they charged you with at the same time. We see it all the time, perp walks on gun charges even if he does time for the other stuff.
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That’s the problem, you r dependent on the good graces of the police not to charge you. You get an overzealous pole with officer or department and you will be punished either by the conviction or process.
 
recreationalhandgrenade said:
Every time I've handed over a cary permit in some less than great cities they've asked questions.
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I’ve had two interactions with police. Both were roadblocks. Both times I’ve handed my CHP on top of my license. No one asked me where it was or what it was.
 
Me. said:
Lead with a joke. Cops love jokes. If you can wedge in a Letterkenny reference, they love that.


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I’m watching that show for the first time…and saw that episode about an hour ago. 🤣🤣

(It may show up more than once, but it was definitely in an episode I watched today)
 
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Derek8404 said:
Eff that, they’ll lie to you, you better believe I’m gonna lie to them.
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As you choose, just know that while you have the right to not respond, it’s generally a misdemeanor to lie to them.
 
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