TSA Access To Locked Firearms

Qball

Qball

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Question:

Is TSA required to locate an airline passenger who declared a firearm in order to unlock the case for inspection?

In other words, if they want to open a locked firearm case that a passenger has in his checked luggage in order to verify compliance with packing requirements, can they just unlock the case and handle the firearm without the owner’s consent or involvement?

I was thinking they were required to page the airline passenger and have him/her unlock the case for inspection.

The reason I ask is because this morning, my wife and I flew out of Philadelphia International and I declared my Springfield XDM Elite Compact 10mm with two empty mags and 20 rounds of ammunition.

It was packed with the slide open and both mags beside the firearm. This Springfield has a notoriously stiff slide release that almost requires two hands to close the slide.

When I returned home I opened the case and found the pistol with the slide closed. No way it closed due to routine baggage handling at the airport. This is a small hard sided case with foam on top and bottom (like a pelican case) with no room for movement inside the case.

My thinking was that TSA is prohibited from opening a locked firearm case and must have the traveler open the case for inspection.

I Googled it and found one article from 2020 that reinforces my thinking but I’m still not sure or maybe the rules or laws changed.

Anyone on here have any specific knowledge regarding this subject?

Thanks.


Edit: I forgot to mention that I did open the case for the American Airlines ticket agent at check-in so she could verify that the pistol was in compliance and the slide was still locked in the open position.
 
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interesting

the rule is that only the owner has the key so it should be x-ray only once it’s checked…

they have to leave a TSA inspection card inside of anything they open (happens all the time with golf clubs)

i know you don’t think it could have closed on its own but i’m going with that as most likely …
 
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I've travelled with my firearms quite a lot lately, out of RDU and CLT. At both locations, TSA wanted to see the locked firearm cases, with my own locks - that prevented TSA from accessing the contents. The firearm cases went in standard luggage with TSA approved locks. The red/orange 'firearm card' went into the standard luggage - not the locked firearm case.
 
vp9c said:
interesting

the rule is that only the owner has the key so it should be x-ray only once it’s checked…

they have to leave a TSA inspection card inside of anything they open (happens all the time with golf clubs)

i know you don’t think it could have closed on its own but i’m going with that as most likely …
Click to expand...

My case is TSA approved and has a built-in lock and electronic 4 digit combination. Only one needs to be used in order to unlock the case.

I was reading on the internet that it is recommended to use “TSA approved” locks on your regular luggage but Do Not use “TSA approved” locks on a firearm case to keep agents out of the case. So I guess it isn’t unheard of for a TSA agent to open a firearm case without the passenger present.

In my case, my checked bag that contained the firearm case was tagged with the red tag telling them to return the bag to the baggage claim office at the destination airport and not mix it with other passenger’s bags.

When I opened my firearm case when I was home, there was no inspection tag inside the case.

I agree that it seems like the slide closing would be the most likely explanation.

However, based on how hard it is to close the slide on this new pistol, and the fact that the grip bears most of the pressure from the closed case due to its width compared to the rest of the pistol, I find it unlikely that it closed on it’s own while locked in the case.

I guess a baggage handler could have tossed the bag it was in up onto the conveyor when loading or unloading it from the plane and the shock could have knocked the slide closed but who knows.
 
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I was under the impression (apparently incorrectly) that the passenger stays with the bag until TSA is satisfied and sends it along for loading.
 
Have you seen how the baggage handlers throw bags around? Wouldn't surprise me if the bag was thrown and the slide released.
 
behindyou said:
I've travelled with my firearms quite a lot lately, out of RDU and CLT. At both locations, TSA wanted to see the locked firearm cases, with my own locks - that prevented TSA from accessing the contents. The firearm cases went in standard luggage with TSA approved locks. The red/orange 'firearm card' went into the standard luggage - not the locked firearm case.
Click to expand...

I’m thinking, for peace of mind, of getting a different TSA approved lockable case that will accept an external padlock that would prevent TSA access without my involvement.
 
Jeppo said:
I was under the impression (apparently incorrectly) that the passenger stays with the bag until TSA is satisfied and sends it along for loading.
Click to expand...

Nope. Well at least not with my experience.

I declare the firearm in my checked bag, get my boarding pass, the checked bag goes on it’s way, and I hang around the ticket counter for ten minutes or so to make sure TSA doesn’t need me to open the case.

After 10-15 minutes, I proceed on to the security line.
 
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Qball said:
I’m thinking, for peace of mind, of getting a different TSA approved lockable case that will accept an external padlock that would prevent TSA access without my involvement.
Click to expand...
I fly with a small Pelican case with two of those slim Master locks keyed to the same key.

Jeppo said:
I was under the impression (apparently incorrectly) that the passenger stays with the bag until TSA is satisfied and sends it along for loading.
Click to expand...

Ive never had to stay with my bag. After it was checked for compliance, I closed the bag, they put tbeir little tag on the handle and tossed on the conveyor.
It did have an inspection tag inside the bag itself when I picked it up, though

As an aside, I ALWAYS get my bags inspected. Via their regs, Im allowed 5 liters of distilled spirits inside. I shop out of stste and bring back six bottles EVERY time I travel 😉

Seems like they have to check on the guns and liquor 😂
 
Carolinatlc said:
Have you seen how the baggage handlers throw bags around? Wouldn't surprise me if the bag was thrown and the slide released.
Click to expand...

I reckon it’s possible. I guess the slide could release from a jolt to the entire pistol easier than pushing down on the slide release.

I’m looking forward to the slide release getting broken in along with the mags. The mags for this pistol have the stiffest springs I’ve ever encountered on a handgun.
 
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TSA particulars vary with time and location. In Phoenix I have always gone to the TSA checkpoint with my items. In Charlotte it varies a little, sometimes they want me to go with it and sometimes it's simply locked and sent through without being accompanied or checked further. Every time I don't accompany the case I've been told that I'd be paged if the case needed to be opened.
 
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Well I just tested the theory that the slide could have been released by a jolt from a baggage handler.

I locked the slide back, stuck it in the case with two loose mags and a box of ammo just as it was at the airport.

I dropped it from a standing height onto a thick rubber mat I have and those of you who figured it was a jolt from handling at the airport were correct.

After dropping it I opened the case and the slide had released sure enough.

Thanks for the input guys.
 
My bet is on rough handling of your bag. I don’t think the average person understands the level of rough handling those bag throwers can reach.

If it was your case without a TSA lock, they shouldn’t have been able to get in it.
 
9outof10mms said:
My bet is on rough handling of your bag. I don’t think the average person understands the level of rough handling those bag throwers can reach.

If it was your case without a TSA lock, they shouldn’t have been able to get in it.
Click to expand...

I agree. My case is a TSA approved case with a built-in lock mechanism. It has one of those keys like used on a soda dispenser machine.

I’m assuming the TSA has keys that fit those kind of locks but that’s just a guess on my part.

Like I mentioned previously, I think I’ll get another case that will accept my own separate lock.
 
Qball said:
I’m thinking, for peace of mind, of getting a different TSA approved lockable case that will accept an external padlock that would prevent TSA access without my involvement.
Click to expand...
that is the requirement
TSA should not be able to use their master keys to open it when you're not present.
 
This is news to me, when you check a pistol in your luggage they put a red “hold at the office” tag on your bag?

I hate checked baggage, and I really hate those offices!
 
JimB said:
This is news to me, when you check a pistol in your luggage they put a red “hold at the office” tag on your bag?

I hate checked baggage, and I really hate those offices!
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varies by airline but after the guy from alaska shot up the fort lauderdale/hollywood airport most airlines make you pick up at the office and “secure” it in some way (usually w zip ties at least for delta)

Fort Lauderdale airport shooting - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
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My understanding is that the lock on the outside of your luggage has to be a TSA style lock, but the lock on your hard gun case does not. I use a combination lock on my hard case and there is no way for TSA to access inside the case w/o me being present.

It's always been the gate agent that was responsible for verifying that the firearm and ammo storage met guidelines.

I've been through a lot of TSA luggage checks with checked firearms, and I don't recall any instances where they had me unlock the hard sided gun case.
 
I don't know what's prohibited to them, or if they would even pay attention. But I have been paged and had to report to a TSA behind-the-scenes area to open my case for inspection. It was a TSA approved box but they still wanted me to provide the key. They were training a new guy and were very thorough, checking under the foam and swabbing surfaces, etc.

When I box mine up for travel use an extra long not-black zip tie that goes in the breech, out the muzzle and clasps.
 
the song and dance is different with every airline and airport…

i’m most shocked when a gate agent makes me open the case to show them it’s unloaded. one day one of them will say slide, hammer and holster!

some airports take you to the back and tsa takes you to the anal probing room 😂
 
Excellent advice here: https://deviating.net/firearms/packing/

It is a common misconception that you need to leave most of your baggage unsecured. There is nothing that says your gun has to go in a small lock box inside of soft luggage. You can use the case with locks and abide by the rules. Maybe not their intention, but it's strictly legal.
 
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I have yet to be paged by the TSA for them to inspect my firearm. I do have to wait around 10 - 15 minutes near the ticket counter to make sure TSA doesn’t want to take a look.

Every time I have flown on American Airlines, the airline employee at the ticket counter where I check my bag has me take the case out, unlock and open it so they can see it isn’t loaded and the ammunition is packed correctly.

Delta hasn’t made me do that however. Both airlines put a red tag on my bag and at my destination I have to go to the baggage claim office to retrieve my bag.

I actually don’t mind going to the office because in my experience, my bag is always there before other passenger’s bags start showing up on the carousel.
 
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Qball said:
I actually don’t mind going to the office because in my experience, my bag is always there before other passenger’s bags start showing up on the carousel.
Click to expand...
When I arrive at EUG they sometimes will hand deliver my bag to me at the carousel. Then the entire rest of the plane gives me the stank-eye as I wheel away with my VIP luggage :)
 
Qball said:
Well I just tested the theory that the slide could have been released by a jolt from a baggage handler.

I locked the slide back, stuck it in the case with two loose mags and a box of ammo just as it was at the airport.

I dropped it from a standing height onto a thick rubber mat I have and those of you who figured it was a jolt from handling at the airport were correct.

After dropping it I opened the case and the slide had released sure enough.

Thanks for the input guys.
Click to expand...
And that is probably a less violent drop than some of the luggage goes through
 
Qball said:
I have yet to be paged by the TSA for them to inspect my firearm. I do have to wait around 10 - 15 minutes near the ticket counter to make sure TSA doesn’t want to take a look.
Click to expand...
That was usually my experience at PTI.
Qball said:
I actually don’t mind going to the office because in my experience, my bag is always there before other passenger’s bags start showing up on the carousel.
Click to expand...
Would be nice if they told you that was what they were doing, so you don’t wait around the damned carousel to have it not appear.
 
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noway2 said:
Excellent advice here: https://deviating.net/firearms/packing/

It is a common misconception that you need to leave most of your baggage unsecured. There is nothing that says your gun has to go in a small lock box inside of soft luggage. You can use the case with locks and abide by the rules. Maybe not their intention, but it's strictly legal.
Click to expand...


One of the tricks to flying securely with any type of valuable items is to pack a gun along with whatever you don't want TSA pawing through. It came up once on a camera forum. It's like a cheat code for luggage security.
TSA can't open up the container securing the gun. Just make that your whole bag.
 
GoWolfpack said:
TSA can't open up the container securing the gun. Just make that your whole bag.
Click to expand...
Had one agent question why I did that instead of putting it in a lock box inside regular luggage. I replied, “I wouldn’t call that secure. Would you?” No reply.
 
GoWolfpack said:
One of the tricks to flying securely with any type of valuable items is to pack a gun along with whatever you don't want TSA pawing through. It came up once on a camera forum. It's like a cheat code for luggage security.
TSA can't open up the container securing the gun. Just make that your whole bag.
Click to expand...
That’s great. I have an old “little ace” derringer type pistol in 22 short that’s smaller than my thumb. Can just put it in a corner of a hard sided case. But doesn’t the locked case have to be inside something else? Can you just send a locked pelican truck that they can’t get into though? It seems that they’d not know what was in it, only that they couldn’t get into it.
 
I have used a metal (aluminum?) case (Kodiak brand, I think) as its sole piece of luggage with a rifle inside. No issues. Granted, that was many years ago...maybe 8 or 9 years ago.
 
I have seen stacks of rifle cases and soldiers milling about when flying in and out of VPS.
 
This homemade video, when it came out, caused United stock valuation to drop by over a billion dollars. The singer went on Dave Letterman. United quickly offered to do what they would not do before, but he said no, his new contract with Taylor Guitars was worth more than that.

 
Qball said:
Question:

Is TSA required to locate an airline passenger who declared a firearm in order to unlock the case for inspection?

In other words, if they want to open a locked firearm case that a passenger has in his checked luggage in order to verify compliance with packing requirements, can they just unlock the case and handle the firearm without the owner’s consent or involvement?

I was thinking they were required to page the airline passenger and have him/her unlock the case for inspection.

The reason I ask is because this morning, my wife and I flew out of Philadelphia International and I declared my Springfield XDM Elite Compact 10mm with two empty mags and 20 rounds of ammunition.

It was packed with the slide open and both mags beside the firearm. This Springfield has a notoriously stiff slide release that almost requires two hands to close the slide.

When I returned home I opened the case and found the pistol with the slide closed. No way it closed due to routine baggage handling at the airport. This is a small hard sided case with foam on top and bottom (like a pelican case) with no room for movement inside the case.

My thinking was that TSA is prohibited from opening a locked firearm case and must have the traveler open the case for inspection.

I Googled it and found one article from 2020 that reinforces my thinking but I’m still not sure or maybe the rules or laws changed.

Anyone on here have any specific knowledge regarding this subject?

Thanks.


Edit: I forgot to mention that I did open the case for the American Airlines ticket agent at check-in so she could verify that the pistol was in compliance and the slide was still locked in the open position.
Click to expand...
To answer your question, no you do not have to be present for TSA to open your stuff.

but its your fault if they can get into your stuff.

This is how I do it. Pistol,
I unload the mags and place the ammo in the factory box.
I put the factory box of ammo in the hard case the pistol was bought in.
I Place the pistol in the factory case, and the magazines as well. If its a compliant state I swap out my good mags for compliant ones.
I use two master combo locks "high school locker types" on the pistol case. I place that case inside my checked bag.

IF I have a layover in a state that is anti-gun I plan my layover with enough buffer room so if the flight gets bumped, etc I do not leave the airport. (if you leave the airport with the firearm, you are now breaking the state law upon exiting the airport property) and can, will be hemmed up.
 
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JimB said:
But doesn’t the locked case have to be inside something else?
Click to expand...

My reading of the regulations is that the firearm must be in a locked container. There is no requirement that the firearm container be within a different one. Your luggage could just be a locked Pelican box with all your stuff and a gun inside it.


JimB said:
It seems that they’d not know what was in it, only that they couldn’t get into it.
Click to expand...

And it probably boils them up inside.
 
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GoWolfpack said:
My reading of the regulations is that the firearm must be in a locked container. There is no requirement that the firearm container be within a different one. Your luggage could just be a locked Pelican box with all your stuff and a gun inside it.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Right from the TSA page:

"The container must completely secure the firearm from being accessed. Locked cases that can be easily opened are not permitted. Be aware that the container the firearm was in when purchased may not adequately secure the firearm when it is transported in checked baggage.

Firearms must be unloaded and locked in a hard-sided container and transported as checked baggage only. As defined by 49 CFR 1540.5 a loaded firearm has a live round of ammunition, or any component thereof, in the chamber or cylinder or in a magazine inserted in the firearm. Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations. You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks.

This is basically a regurgitation of the federal regulation: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-...hapter-C/part-1540/subpart-B/section-1540.111 It says must be in a locked hard sided case. Nothing says that case can't be your luggage or that it must be within another case.
 
GoWolfpack said:
One of the tricks to flying securely with any type of valuable items is to pack a gun along with whatever you don't want TSA pawing through. It came up once on a camera forum. It's like a cheat code for luggage security.
TSA can't open up the container securing the gun. Just make that your whole bag.
Click to expand...

That’s a great idea. From now on I’m doing just that. Use one of my rifle pelican cases as a suit case with my pistol, mags and ammunition locked inside.
 
GoWolfpack said:
One of the tricks to flying securely with any type of valuable items is to pack a gun along with whatever you don't want TSA pawing through. It came up once on a camera forum. It's like a cheat code for luggage security.
TSA can't open up the container securing the gun. Just make that your whole bag.
Click to expand...
when my wife flew, her whole suitcase was hard sided and counted. but we also had a small lockbox for her to leave at her desk.
they begged and pleaded with us to put the gun in the small lockbox instead of making the whole suitcase the secure luggage.
"no"
 
Side note,

A buddy of mine was going on a Safari in Africa. His gun case looked like a snow ski case.

His compound bow case looked like a bow case.

Guess what case was empty when he landed in Italy?
 
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