Who can build a couple of these for me?

vp9c said:
Target looks GREAT!!!!

Backstop looks a little weak on the right hand side 😂
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I just realized you were talking about the Camaro. Lol, yeah it is weak right now compared to my twin turbo diesel powered BMW, but it has a 1200 hp twin turbo kit in the works. 😁
 
I own a gun range. I also like to save money & build stuff as much as I can. We shoot USPSA matches here.

The OP needs a swinger (or more than one,) for matches. That adds a certain level of demands upon a target of any type.
It has to be sturdy. It has to be capable of withstanding a lot of errant shots to portions of the frame, activation pieces, base etc. AND still be perfectly functional. Otherwise,, if a group of shooters have already shot a stage, and then an errant shot damages the target beyond immediate & perfect repair, then the entire target must be replaced with an identical target or the stage gets thrown out. No competition shooter who shoots a stage very well likes to see a good stage thrown out because of mechanical failure.

The cost of $295 for a swinger may seem steep,, but ask what GRADE of steel is used? More likely,, AR500 or AT500. That stuff is expensive. Then factor in fabrication, and of course,, a business has to make a profit. That's why prices are where they are.

The above hand built swinger looks GREAT! I like it. And I can see it working for matches with a few modifications. Mainly, to protect the framework from errant hits upon weak points. And if the wooden uprights are replaceable,, then it must be capable of QUICK replacement parts already assembled, so that a squad isn't standing around 30 minutes or more while a "Mr. Fixit" is trying to replace or repair something.

I have built steel target stuff,, including swingers for my range from stuff I had "laying around." But I also build them with an eye on the main thing; "What if it takes a direct bullet hit right here?"
Just last weekend, at our monthly match. A shooter was looking at my Texas Star, and saw the obvious hit in the very center of the star. he made a comment on that. We are talking 2-1/2 FEET away from where any of the steel plates were at in any direction. And you can look at the arms of the Star & see other hits as well. My Star has a AR500 plate in the center to protect the roller bearing parts, as do all moving targets of competition quality.

My points are simple. While PVC or wood is an easy, less expensive option for casual plinkers, a competition target system must be built to withstand errant hits and NOT fail. Plus, any parts on a good system must be easily & quickly replaced with identical stuff to prevent any differences in the stage from the first shooter to the last shooter. I have seen several good stages where the props failed due to this and the stage get thrown out.
 
contender said:
I own a gun range. I also like to save money & build stuff as much as I can. We shoot USPSA matches here.

The OP needs a swinger (or more than one,) for matches. That adds a certain level of demands upon a target of any type.
It has to be sturdy. It has to be capable of withstanding a lot of errant shots to portions of the frame, activation pieces, base etc. AND still be perfectly functional. Otherwise,, if a group of shooters have already shot a stage, and then an errant shot damages the target beyond immediate & perfect repair, then the entire target must be replaced with an identical target or the stage gets thrown out. No competition shooter who shoots a stage very well likes to see a good stage thrown out because of mechanical failure.

The cost of $295 for a swinger may seem steep,, but ask what GRADE of steel is used? More likely,, AR500 or AT500. That stuff is expensive. Then factor in fabrication, and of course,, a business has to make a profit. That's why prices are where they are.

The above hand built swinger looks GREAT! I like it. And I can see it working for matches with a few modifications. Mainly, to protect the framework from errant hits upon weak points. And if the wooden uprights are replaceable,, then it must be capable of QUICK replacement parts already assembled, so that a squad isn't standing around 30 minutes or more while a "Mr. Fixit" is trying to replace or repair something.

I have built steel target stuff,, including swingers for my range from stuff I had "laying around." But I also build them with an eye on the main thing; "What if it takes a direct bullet hit right here?"
Just last weekend, at our monthly match. A shooter was looking at my Texas Star, and saw the obvious hit in the very center of the star. he made a comment on that. We are talking 2-1/2 FEET away from where any of the steel plates were at in any direction. And you can look at the arms of the Star & see other hits as well. My Star has a AR500 plate in the center to protect the roller bearing parts, as do all moving targets of competition quality.

My points are simple. While PVC or wood is an easy, less expensive option for casual plinkers, a competition target system must be built to withstand errant hits and NOT fail. Plus, any parts on a good system must be easily & quickly replaced with identical stuff to prevent any differences in the stage from the first shooter to the last shooter. I have seen several good stages where the props failed due to this and the stage get thrown out.
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I completely understand where you're coming from, but the OP wasn't asking for a USPSA approved target stand.

So let's look at what you get for the $295 "commercial grade" swinger.

The main upright is made from 5/16" angle iron.(mild steel)
The cross bar for the target mount looks to be stamped steel, with lots of exposed bolts and open areas where a stray bullet could get through to the bearings.
In this picture you can actually see one of the bearing assemblies from the front view. It may be just me or the way the picture was taken, but the bearing mounting plate looks like it is flexing just from the weight of the swing assembly....
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The upright pockets are only partially welded instead of a full length weld.
Although they say on their website "In our research, broken welds were the leading quality problem and frustration cited by the police and private range officials we interviewed.", they still use partially welded joints.
Their website also says "Our target assemblies use hardened, round head carriage bolts". Those pictured with 3 marks are regular grade 5 bolts...
All of those bolts can take a direct hit from a stray bullet since they are exposed.


Their adjustable counterweight has 2 positions available, upper and lower for fast or slow swing.
They are bolted to brackets, so tools are required for adjusting.
Also in this picture you can see how exposed the bearings are.
Untitled1.png

To adjust the width of the target from 18 to 24 inches you have to remove 4 bolts and put the arms in different holes.

I searched their website and no where could I find where they were made, so that usually means "made in China", or some other foreign factory. Manufacturers of this type of equipment usually tout the fact they are made in the USA, if they are.

They claim this target will swing over 2 1/2 minutes after activation.

I am not nor do I claim to be a professional builder. I enjoy the challenge.

So here is what I came up with.

The upright is a 1 3/4" hardened chrome plated solid steel shaft. The bearing support is 3" x 4" solid steel and was drilled for the upright to go into it and then welded in place. The swinging assembly can be removed by pulling one cotter pin. No tools needed. The bearings used are easily replaced and are a very common size.
20220424_181819.jpg

The cross plate is doubled 4" wide steel that is 1/2" thick.
I used knobs on the back side to clamp the targets in place. You can use whatever width target you want, up to 36" wide. You could even just use plywood without furring strips since I made the back plate clamp full width. I used some 1 1/2" square deck rail spindles screwed to 1/4" luan I had left over from another project.
Here also, no tools needed to change target styles. It takes about 30 seconds to replace the target with a fresh one.

20220424_181810.jpg

For the counterweight, I casted some lead "cupcakes" and then machined them down so they are all the same exact weight. I put 5 holes so the swing speed can be fine tuned.
Here again, the weights can be adjusted by pulling a pin. No tools needed. I guess I could add a steel plate in front of the counterweight to prevent stray bullet hits.
I timed it and with the weight in the bottom position, it still had about a 10" swing, measured at the weight, at the 4 minute mark.


20220424_181834.jpg

The whole target stand can be disassembled in just a couple of minutes if needed, without tools....
(The picture above shows a bolt at the bottom of the upright but that has been replaced with a thumbscrew.)


Here are the 2 target stands disassembled. (minus one base)

The base legs have holes so they could be anchored to the ground if needed, but since they weigh probably over 100 pounds assembled, I doubt you would need to.

20220424_185119(1).jpg


Completed swinging target.
The shaft mount plate that everything is mounted to is the beefiest part of the assembly. 3/8" steel.


20220424_181730.jpg

From the front there is no where a stray bullet can get to operational parts.

20220424_181844.jpg

I have not tested this stand with different calibers yet, but I have a 3rd identical one in the works that I plan to brutally test. These 2 are for @Tim

The last target stand I did test after building was this spinner target. You can't imagine how fast those little plates will spin when hit with a 50 Beowulf. Lol
And by the way, they survived the 50 Beowulf and my 460 magnum.

20220409_154117.jpg
 
To "Imyourhuckleberry" I'd like to POLITELY say a few things.

You are correct in that he's not looking for a USPSA target. But look at his quote;

"This. I want to use these for 3-gun matches. PVC would be destroyed by the end of Squad 1"

3-gun matches are harder on props than USPSA. Hence my comments about the expense of commercial target systems, vs. some of the cheaper options mentioned.

PLUS,, I DID say I really liked your design & it has a LOT of excellent points. In fact,, your bearing system appears to be an excellent choice.

I wasn't able to upload all the pictures in your latest post, due to slow internet, so I can't comment about any of the other stuff.

I was NOT in ANY way trying to disparage YOUR target design,, so if you took it that way,, I do apologize. I was looking at the other comments about PVC, or other cheaper options.

And I would like to know what kind of bearing you used,, as it looks like it's make a FINE swinger bearing system. I'd just add a serious protective plate in front of it to protect the bearing assy.

Again, if you will please understand,, I was NOT disparaging your work AT ALL!
 
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I forgot to add;
When I get on here in the mornings, the internet is quicker & I'll be looking at your posts to see what you have to offer.
 
contender said:
To "Imyourhuckleberry" I'd like to POLITELY say a few things.

You are correct in that he's not looking for a USPSA target. But look at his quote;

"This. I want to use these for 3-gun matches. PVC would be destroyed by the end of Squad 1"

3-gun matches are harder on props than USPSA. Hence my comments about the expense of commercial target systems, vs. some of the cheaper options mentioned.

PLUS,, I DID say I really liked your design & it has a LOT of excellent points. In fact,, your bearing system appears to be an excellent choice.

I wasn't able to upload all the pictures in your latest post, due to slow internet, so I can't comment about any of the other stuff.

I was NOT in ANY way trying to disparage YOUR target design,, so if you took it that way,, I do apologize. I was looking at the other comments about PVC, or other cheaper options.

And I would like to know what kind of bearing you used,, as it looks like it's make a FINE swinger bearing system. I'd just add a serious protective plate in front of it to protect the bearing assy.

Again, if you will please understand,, I was NOT disparaging your work AT ALL!
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No worries. I will check the bearing numbers and let you know. It is a double sealed roller bearing and I am pretty sure they are 6205-2rs SKF.
 
I'm finally able to look at the pictures. Very good & detailed. I am interested in the bearing system. I can see how it'd be a smooth one. As for the adjustable target width. That's a great idea for different folks and making just one size that is adjustable is a good idea. USPSA, IDPA & 3-Gun & others use a 18" width,, as a "standard," but having options is nice. I do like what you've built.

You mentioned building one & doing a brutal testing of it. If you don't mind,, try this. Allow it to be static, and shoot the center of the bearing pivot point with a .223. (Simulates the potential of a 3-gun bad shot,) and post the results. I'm curious. But I also understand if you don't want to try that either.
 
contender said:
I'm finally able to look at the pictures. Very good & detailed. I am interested in the bearing system. I can see how it'd be a smooth one. As for the adjustable target width. That's a great idea for different folks and making just one size that is adjustable is a good idea. USPSA, IDPA & 3-Gun & others use a 18" width,, as a "standard," but having options is nice. I do like what you've built.

You mentioned building one & doing a brutal testing of it. If you don't mind,, try this. Allow it to be static, and shoot the center of the bearing pivot point with a .223. (Simulates the potential of a 3-gun bad shot,) and post the results. I'm curious. But I also understand if you don't want to try that either.
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It seems reasonable to me to make this a handgun only target.
 
But the OP (Tim) was asking for "3-Gun" MATCH type targets. Hence the need for a stronger framework than PVC or bed frame mild stuff.

And on my range,, we only use handguns at my steel,, and yet,, I can show you damage to a couple of popper targets made from AR500 that were made with a handgun. At a USPSA match once,, we had a shooter using a full power .44 mag and he laughed when he broke a steel plate off it's base. It was at a State match too.
3-gun, USPSA, or whatever,, the targets MUST withstand serious abuse. And even handguns can do damage.
 
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Frack N Cylons said:
It seems reasonable to me to make this a handgun only target.
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yeah....for our match, I'm envisioning handgun primarily.

Although, given how he's made the (ingenious!) clamping system for target posts, I could see doing a close range small scale rifle paper on a long piece of 1x1 just to irritate people. Close enough to where you'd have to be an absolute idiot to make contact with the mechanism.

Granted, and I'm sure @contender will attest, matches do attract a fair share of absolute idiots. We'll need to play with it and see what we can do.
 
@contender , our 3-Guns are near Old Fort, just about 20 minutes up the road from Bat Cave/64/9 intersection. When I get these in hand, you should come check them out.
 
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I was a RO at a Multi-gun Nationals several years ago. And I can attest to the fun yet frustration of various reactive steel targets can create.
But bullet impacts can happen on anything downrange being shot at.
Handgunning on swingers is a better option than using rifles but I've seen it done.
And Tim is right; "Granted, and I'm sure @contender will attest, matches do attract a fair share of absolute idiots."

Shooting USPSA & other gun games now for almost 25 years,, you are so right.

I was in Old Fort & Black Mountain today working. Get me details on when you do matches. As long as it's not the 3rd Sat of the month,, I may be able to make it. July, I'm going to be in Ohio for a Ruger Collector show. But keep me informed.

In USPSA steel targets can not be set any closer to shooters than 23 ft IF physical barriers are used to stop forward movement by shooters. If a fault line is being used,, then 26 ft is the minimum distance you can set up any steel. But we use only handguns or handgun calibers, (Pistol Caliber Carbines, PCC for example.) 9mm is the most common caliber nowadays in most categories. Rifle distances,, I'd have to check the rules,, so I'll defer to Tim's numbers.
 
These targets are SO awesome!! Thank you @ImYourHuckleberry for investing in us, we will make a trip down ASAP to pick them up and take you out to lunch!!
I hope you find the opportunity to come up and shoot with us in the future. @Tim will find good use for these in one of his diabolical stage plans.
Frank
 
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