Yet another low testosterone / nutrition / TRT thread in case it helps anyone's decisions....

Also…clearly I’m no doctor but I think the research on heart disease and trt is low because there aren’t a ton of folks on it that are also improving other things like cholesterol, micronutrient levels and blood pressure.
 
ForumSurfer said:
Also…clearly I’m no doctor but I think the research on heart disease and trt is low because there aren’t a ton of folks on it that are also improving other things like cholesterol, micronutrient levels and blood pressure.
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No money in healthy people.
 
Johnny said:
I was on Androgel 10 or 15 years ago, no noticeable difference so I lost interest.
My current Doc wouldn't even test me because I had a pulmonary embolism 6 years ago. He finally agreed to the test but only reported that I was within normal limits., no number given.
I can assure you my numbers haven't gone up since that last test.

I'm seriously considering some Dr. shopping.
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As sketchy as it sounds, there are online TRT clinics. You make a telehealth appointment, send in labs and of needed they will start you on TRT.
 
I thought i might have low T in the last year or two of my 20s. it wasn't low, but it was closer to low than high.
my doctor started asking about my lifestyle and found out i was cutting the candle in half and burning it at all 4 ends, said he was surprised i was able to continue doing day to day stuff, much less want to do even more.

get rest, get good rest, don't work yourself too hard.

Also, testosterone is a hormone derived from cholesterol and has to be synthesized or injected. i'm super skeptical about "supplements" that will boost it. Also, lose weight if you're overweight. fat cells can turn testosterone to estrogen, and you really don't want that because it works against you in 2 ways at once.
 
Johnny said:
I was on Androgel 10 or 15 years ago, no noticeable difference so I lost interest.
My current Doc wouldn't even test me because I had a pulmonary embolism 6 years ago. He finally agreed to the test but only reported that I was within normal limits., no number given.
I can assure you my numbers haven't gone up since that last test.

I'm seriously considering some Dr. shopping.
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Need to talk to some aftermarket drs.
 
DrScaryGuy said:
I thought i might have low T in the last year or two of my 20s. it wasn't low, but it was closer to low than high.
my doctor started asking about my lifestyle and found out i was cutting the candle in half and burning it at all 4 ends, said he was surprised i was able to continue doing day to day stuff, much less want to do even more.

get rest, get good rest, don't work yourself too hard.

Also, testosterone is a hormone derived from cholesterol and has to be synthesized or injected. i'm super skeptical about "supplements" that will boost it. Also, lose weight if you're overweight. fat cells can turn testosterone to estrogen, and you really don't want that because it works against you in 2 ways at once.
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Absolutely. I think TRT is wonderful.

That being said before anyone jumps on that train I recommend regular blood tests and fixing things that need to be fixed any way as they can take care of the issue:

1. Nutrition. Macro and micronutrients. Most insurances cover a nutritionist to help us dumb folks with this 😂
2. Rest and recovery. Sleep helps more than I can say. I have more tied up in my mattress and pillow than I do in my carry gun.
3. Stress management.
4. Balancing your work output with 1, 2 and 3.
5. Physical activity. Walking 3 days a week is highly underrated.

Once those are locked down if t is still low, you’re fighting against a medical cause or genetics and no amount of nutrition or supplement is going to bring it up.
 
fieldgrade said:
So, will a general practitioner order a test like this or will they just refer you to an endocrinologist? I’ve got my annual physical coming up next week. They do a full blood panel, but I don’t think a test for T is on the list as best I can tell.

I noticed a marked decrease in stamina and energy in the past year. Maybe because I’m just old, or...?
I used to walk 2-5 miles every morning. Walking more than 1.5 now wears me out. I have to really push it to walk 2-3. When my neighbor would come back from deployment we’d walk and talk for 6-7 miles. Can’t do it anymore.
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Your general can order a test. Insurance makes them run the test before 10 am but its just a blood draw.
 
Tailhunter said:
Your general can order a test. Insurance makes them run the test before 10 am but its just a blood draw.
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I believe it’s less to do with insurance and more to do with free T being more concentrated (therefore at its highest possible level) in the morning. Mine were all specified as needing to be done prior to 9am.
 
I also like to nip problems before they’re problems. TRT can cause an increase in blood platelets which COULD lead to increased clotting and a risk for stroke. Since that is a possibility and a fair number of people have this issue…I decided to just avoid it by donating blood quarterly. Problem solved before it’s a problem.
 
ForumSurfer said:
I also like to nip problems before they’re problems. TRT can cause an increase in blood platelets which COULD lead to increased clotting and a risk for stroke. Since that is a possibility and a fair number of people have this issue…I decided to just avoid it by donating blood quarterly. Problem solved before it’s a problem.
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I can’t do that. I see the purple sparklies as soon as the blood starts flowing. Near pass out every time.
 
ForumSurfer said:
Absolutely. I think TRT is wonderful.

That being said before anyone jumps on that train I recommend regular blood tests and fixing things that need to be fixed any way as they can take care of the issue:

1. Nutrition. Macro and micronutrients. Most insurances cover a nutritionist to help us dumb folks with this 😂
2. Rest and recovery. Sleep helps more than I can say. I have more tied up in my mattress and pillow than I do in my carry gun.
3. Stress management.
4. Balancing your work output with 1, 2 and 3.
5. Physical activity. Walking 3 days a week is highly underrated.

Once those are locked down if t is still low, you’re fighting against a medical cause or genetics and no amount of nutrition or supplement is going to bring it up.
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First, I would not argue that medical/injury would be hard pressed for supplements to fix. If you physically have something wrong, then trying to make that injured part do more is unlikely.

In my case the supplements ran me from the mid-upper 200s to my last 2 tests being 549 and 566 with supplements and some lifestyle changes. FWIW, I was late 47 YO on my last test this year, and it was the 566. And I've been using supplements for 5-6 years. At some point I'm guessing they well become less/ineffective. But my plan is to force my body to compensate and produce T as long as possible before supplementing with actual T. Figuring supplementing will just turn off my bodies interest in producing much.

As to the blood test, my Dr has run a full blood test and fasting with every physical I get. That's where my dropping T was caught initially. If you are getting a physical without a full battery, fasting blood test I would looks elsewhere. The physical part is probably the least important part. I get 4-5 pages of test results in my hand when I leave my Dr. And we sit down and go over the numbers and the changes from the previous year.
 
chiefjason said:
First, I would not argue that medical/injury would be hard pressed for supplements to fix. If you physically have something wrong, then trying to make that injured part do more is unlikely.

In my case the supplements ran me from the mid-upper 200s to my last 2 tests being 549 and 566 with supplements and some lifestyle changes. FWIW, I was late 47 YO on my last test this year, and it was the 566. And I've been using supplements for 5-6 years. At some point I'm guessing they well become less/ineffective. But my plan is to force my body to compensate and produce T as long as possible before supplementing with actual T. Figuring supplementing will just turn off my bodies interest in producing much.

As to the blood test, my Dr has run a full blood test and fasting with every physical I get. That's where my dropping T was caught initially. If you are getting a physical without a full battery, fasting blood test I would looks elsewhere. The physical part is probably the least important part. I get 4-5 pages of test results in my hand when I leave my Dr. And we sit down and go over the numbers and the changes from the previous year.
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Ah but you made lifestyle changes. It’s impossible to tell which worked.

I had two years maybe three of testing and changes. Nutrition and lifestyle helped. Minimally (likely would have made more of a difference but I was already in decent shape). Adding in the supplements didn’t result in any variations in numbers.

I was meticulous about my changes since I was also coping with a vast array of other symptoms coming from TBI. Change one thing. Let it settle for a few weeks then move on.
 
9outof10mms said:
I can’t do that. I see the purple sparklies as soon as the blood starts flowing. Near pass out every time.
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I have a coworker like that. I didn’t believe it until I saw the man literally hit the floor during a flu shot. Some phobias are very legit and not something you just “get over” without a decent damn therapist.
 
ForumSurfer said:
I have a coworker like that. I didn’t believe it until I saw the man literally hit the floor during a flu shot. Some phobias are very legit and not something you just “get over” without a decent damn therapist.
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I wish it were a phobia. Then I could try to overcome it. I’m O- and feel guilty for not donating. But I guess my hydraulics system doesn’t like to be rapidly drained.

The worst part is when you say something to the nurse. They act like someone is coding and draw all the attention in the world. After a shot of OJ and some Coke, I’m usually good to go.
 
ForumSurfer said:
Ah but you made lifestyle changes. It’s impossible to tell which worked.

I had two years maybe three of testing and changes. Nutrition and lifestyle helped. Minimally (likely would have made more of a difference but I was already in decent shape). Adding in the supplements didn’t result in any variations in numbers.

I was meticulous about my changes since I was also coping with a vast array of other symptoms coming from TBI. Change one thing. Let it settle for a few weeks then move on.
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I’d have to dig out the tests and do some figuring, which I’m not going to do, but I’m pretty sure the supplements and an increase year over year pre dated the lifestyle changes. At this point they are hand in hand and hard to separate.

In any case, this stuff is highly personal. You can read up. You can ask questions. But ultimately you have to try it and see if it works for you. Some things will, some won’t.

Congrats on figuring that out. Sounds like you put in a lot of work to get it right.
 
9outof10mms said:
The worst part is when you say something to the nurse. They act like someone is coding and draw all the attention in the world. After a shot of OJ and some Coke, I’m usually good to go.
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we had a girl who's going through some stuff pass out at work the other day. we had 2 paramedics and an RN on at the time, so it was good. My biggest concern was directing traffic to prevent exactly what you're talking about, even if that meant sending the RN to go get stuff because the paramedics were already working and him just standing there looked bad.
 
Lot of great info here. I am due for a physical and will have to get the doc to test T levels and make sure to get an actual number. I feel like I have been fighting an uphill battle these last few years as well with energy, workout results, etc.

Sounds like many of you also put a lot of work in before or while going on the therapy. I would like to hear more about what @ForumSurfer is eating to get his nutrition nailed down, what all is in @NCMedic 's stack and what supplement(s) worked so well for @chiefjason !

:cool:
 
Exile_D said:
Lot of great info here. I am due for a physical and will have to get the doc to test T levels and make sure to get an actual number. I feel like I have been fighting an uphill battle these last few years as well with energy, workout results, etc.

Sounds like many of you also put a lot of work in before or while going on the therapy. I would like to hear more about what @ForumSurfer is eating to get his nutrition nailed down, what all is in @NCMedic 's stack and what supplement(s) worked so well for @chiefjason !

:cool:
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This is what I am using.



01ED456F-FB7F-4296-8758-3806C858ADBE.png
 
Exile_D said:
Lot of great info here. I am due for a physical and will have to get the doc to test T levels and make sure to get an actual number. I feel like I have been fighting an uphill battle these last few years as well with energy, workout results, etc.

Sounds like many of you also put a lot of work in before or while going on the therapy. I would like to hear more about what @ForumSurfer is eating to get his nutrition nailed down, what all is in @NCMedic 's stack and what supplement(s) worked so well for @chiefjason !

:cool:
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It’s not exciting 😂

I met with famous nutritionists. I have friends who are registered dieticians. I picked quite a bit of brain pans and did/do not approach anything with an absolute approach.

I try to live by the 80/20 rule. 80% of the time I try to get it right. I don’t treat food as a punishment or reward, it just food. On those 20% days I try to not go too crazy.

My blood tests showed me which micronutrients I was low on. I corrected by adding more spinach and salt in my case. I guess all my training had me depleting salt faster than I thought. My blood test showed that. Honestly getting my salt levels and sugar level uncheck JD the best “feeling.”

For my macro nutrition I either go by an app or calculate my needs. I use the Mifflin-St. Jeor equation. I’ve gone all red meat. I’ve gone all chicken and fish. Honestly both worked fine. I find my digestive track likes consistency so I stick to one or the other for a week or two.

For carbs I like white rice or some form of potato. Those go through me the easiest.

Pasta causes me to bloat something fierce so I limit that. Limit…not eliminate. I find limitations make me fal off track long term. If I want some damn Mac and cheese so be it lol.

Honestly the Renaissance Periodization app is really nice. It lets you plug and play meals instead of planning out 15 beef and rice meals. It helps you guide to your goals where as my formul method requires consistency and adjusting carbs for performance/weight issues.

The biggest thing that helps me is taking my lunch to work. I eat two meals there and if nail all those, it makes the bulk of my nutrition easy since that makes up nearly 50% of my intake. The weekend is when I get some flex in….like a big ol country breakfast on saturdays 😍

I don’t know if that helps at all but I’m happy to answer questions and send you to more knowledgeable folks
 
Exile_D said:
Lot of great info here. I am due for a physical and will have to get the doc to test T levels and make sure to get an actual number. I feel like I have been fighting an uphill battle these last few years as well with energy, workout results, etc.

Sounds like many of you also put a lot of work in before or while going on the therapy. I would like to hear more about what @ForumSurfer is eating to get his nutrition nailed down, what all is in @NCMedic 's stack and what supplement(s) worked so well for @chiefjason !

:cool:
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Somewhere around 40 I decided to uo my workout game, too. I was doing ok but I wanted to get better at things like overhead work and squats. I had some injuries that some said would hinder me at squatting heavy so you know how that goes 😂. I started competing and took my squat from a drunken baby deer leg triple at 275 to hitting 470 for a pretty easy two a couple of weekends ago. I’m prepping for a November competition now and I want to flirt with 500. That’s an entirely different thread.

Most of my changes came from stopping 5-7 day bro splits and doing 4 day push/pull splits….along with taking recovery more serious with less of that “all day every day” stuff. I feel much better all around incorporating movement under a heavy load.
 
I also take a small amount of vitamins. It’s preferable to get everything from food but to be honest, I hate vegetables and fish so I cover my bases

Beet products is a new thing. My wife got a ton for free through some promotional stuff and damned if they don’t make me feel a slight energy boost. Beets are loaded with nitrates so they give you a pretty great enhancement to your workout when taken beforehand with enough time to digest.
BBDC9027-84FB-409A-8855-2EEABCA6635D.jpeg
 
concepthomes2 said:
I noticed my nuts shrank after a few years on t-injections. After stopping, my nuts returned to normal size.
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Smaller taters make the meat look bigger! I've been on TRT for 12 years and I won't stop. My TEST was 170 before it now rides around 500-575 depending on the day I get my blood work. It helped me enjoy my life, wife, work and lifting again.
 
Tailhunter said:
This is interesting because testosterone injections cause an influx of estrogen.
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Most influx of estrogen is thru oral steroids because it all passes thru the liver. Injectables carry a lower estrogen producing environment.

For all check out a book called "testosterone for life" it's a good book to understand TRT. Now if you want to read about other steroids for education check out "layman's guide to steroids", "building the perfect beast" and "chemical muscle enhancement". If you interested in them hit me up and I can email you pdfs for educational reading. I wish I had these books when I was young and dumb jumping into PEDS before I was 18.
 
Dirtydirtysouf said:
Smaller taters make the meat look bigger! I've been on TRT for 12 years and I won't stop. My TEST was 170 before it now rides around 500-575 depending on the day I get my blood work. It helped me enjoy my life, wife, work and lifting again.
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So did your shrinkage plateau at a certain percentage? Like, are your balls 50% smaller than they were before TRT?

I could handle slightly smaller balls (that sounds bad) but I didn't want my giblets to shrink to the size of raisins.
 
concepthomes2 said:
So did your shrinkage plateau at a certain percentage? Like, are your balls 50% smaller than they were before TRT?

I could handle slightly smaller balls (that sounds bad) but I didn't want my giblets to shrink to the size of raisins.
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To be honest I don't really know. All I cared about was my sex drive was back and I enjoyed lifting again. At 46yrs old and not planning on having kids I never thought twice about testicle shrinkage.
 
Dirtydirtysouf said:
Most influx of estrogen is thru oral steroids because it all passes thru the liver. Injectables carry a lower estrogen producing environment.

For all check out a book called "testosterone for life" it's a good book to understand TRT. Now if you want to read about other steroids for education check out "layman's guide to steroids", "building the perfect beast" and "chemical muscle enhancement". If you interested in them hit me up and I can email you pdfs for educational reading. I wish I had these books when I was young and dumb jumping into PEDS before I was 18.
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This is not what 2 MD's and one Endocrinologist have told me.
 
Tailhunter said:
This is not what 2 MD's and one Endocrinologist have told me.
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This is what my Endo told me and from my studying. Who really knows since nobody is really studying steroids/HRT/TRT. I've got some clinical books that are in PDF that I can send you if you'd like. Reading and having more knowledge is better than really not knowing and guessing.
 
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Dirtydirtysouf said:
This is what my Endo told me and from my studying. Who really knows since nobody is really studying steroids/HRT/TRT. I've got some clinical books that are in PDF that I can send you if you'd like. Reading and having more knowledge is better than really not knowing and guessing.
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More opinions don’t seem to clarify things. My own experiences have backed up what they have told me. So many different variables don’t help either when it comes to particular findings.
Since I am the test sample for my experiment, I have to go with my experiences and I asume thats what you are doing also.

Thanks for the offer.
 
I honestly don’t see a compelling reason to go any route other than injections. That being said I hate needles. I’ve given myself a couple of doses and wow do I really hate that even more.

But I feel incredible compared to the sloth I felt like 8 weeks ago so I stab and jab and away we go.
 
ForumSurfer said:
I honestly don’t see a compelling reason to go any route other than injections. That being said I hate needles. I’ve given myself a couple of doses and wow do I really hate that even more.

But I feel incredible compared to the sloth I felt like 8 weeks ago so I stab and jab and away we go.
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I hated the needles to start with but the good outweighed the quick 3sec stab
 
ForumSurfer said:
I honestly don’t see a compelling reason to go any route other than injections. That being said I hate needles. I’ve given myself a couple of doses and wow do I really hate that even more.

But I feel incredible compared to the sloth I felt like 8 weeks ago so I stab and jab and away we go.
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Put an ice pack on your thigh for 15 minutes and you’ll never feel the needle.

Like you, I originally hated to give myself an IM shot. Sub q isn’t bad because the needles are so small, but the bigger IM needles were a pain. The ice pack solved all that.

Another trick is to change needles inbetween drawing the fluid and sticking it into your thigh. Poking thru the rubber cap on the bottle dulls the needle slightly so swapping for a fresh one reduces the pain. Plus you can use an 18 gauge needle for drawing it up easier, and the smaller 23 gauge needle for sticking yourself.
 
Scsmith42 said:
Put an ice pack on your thigh for 15 minutes and you’ll never feel the needle.

Like you, I originally hated to give myself an IM shot. Sub q isn’t bad because the needles are so small, but the bigger IM needles were a pain. The ice pack solved all that.

Another trick is to change needles inbetween drawing the fluid and sticking it into your thigh. Poking thru the rubber cap on the bottle dulls the needle slightly so swapping for a fresh one reduces the pain. Plus you can use an 18 gauge needle for drawing it up easier, and the smaller 23 gauge needle for sticking yourself.
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I’m impressed with my doc’s outfit. You know they don’t charge me to draw all the needles then swap on the injection needles. Kind of a nicety.
 
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