Wuhan, nCV, germs....

1. name someone like Scott Gottlieb as head of coronavirus task force, replacing Pence.
2. temporarily shut down cruise lines (or impose all the costs of handling infected passengers onto the cruise line operators and they will either suspend cruises or pass costs onto passengers who can decide whether an expensive cruise is worth it).
3. issue air travel advisory limiting to essential travel
4. ban flights from countries that have large scale epidemics as well as those that don't have a handle on smaller scale epidemics (that will grow quickly)
5. incentivize people to get tested rather than hide
6. incentivize infected to self-quarantine rather than keep going to work (that means income replacement)
7. issue advisory to temporarily suspend large gatherings. I'll leave the cutoff to the medical experts, but for sure this includes large indoor sporting events
8. issue advisory to wear masks in crowded areas (subways, etc.)
9. since we don't have enough masks, advise people on how to DIY masks. Work with manufacturers to scale up operations.

I could go on, but you get the idea. We don't need to go full China CCP on this, but the administration needs to go way farther than they've gone so far. The choice isn't between economic disruption and no economic disruption (which is how CCP initially approached this, as did Italy, other European countries, and Trump admin). The choice is between sharp but short-term economic disruption (which the government can help ease) and very drawn out very deep economic disruption (that also results in political change).

1: Pence is just a figure head. The pros are in the job and calling the shots behind the scenes

2: I'm guessing here. Trump is a business man first. He is giving the cruise lines time to figure out what to do before shutting them down. He knows the economic impact it would have on the companies and employees. Bringing an industry to a screeching halt has far reaching consequences.

3&4 same as #2

5: why incentivise getting tested when there is already a shortage of test kits?

6: so far most of the confirmed infected people aren't following the self quarantine, due to being stupid. Not because they have to go to work.

7: local governments has started advising that. Does it need to come from the fed level?

8: The shortage is effecting the researchers that have been tasked with helping combat the virus. Let's make it harder for the researcher to do their jobs.

9: guessing here. Most mask manufacturers are in china.
 
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So how exactly do you think this Trump should be handling this?

Quarantines? Martial law? Forced home quarantines? Closing ports of entry? National Guard?
As I’ve said before, repeating what others have said: it comes down to a choice of protect the people as much as possible, not overwhelming the healthcare system, or trying to save the economy. He, and other western countries, at least initially, focused on their economies. What do you expect when you allow monied “elites” to rule? Anyway, the focus is going to have to be doing whatever it takes to contain the situation enough that you slow the spread to where the medical system can respond. That has the maximal effect of reducing the fatality rate. At some point, the healthcare system will go into triage mode meaning do the most possible for the greatest number and not allocating resources on the rest. The goal would be to prevent or limit that stage. How that’s done, well, that’s a question for others.
 
@drypowder , I really like your list a few posts up. I kind of liken it to Roosevelt's suspension of all banking and shutting down Wall Street in 1933 for 4 days to allow a reset and time to implement policy.

Regarding the NCAA tournament, it pisses me off but I understand it, but it's also hypocritical. I understand social distancing for safety, but bringing teams from diverse geographic regions to get together and literally be up in each other's faces for 40 minutes of basketball? Yeah there's a problem with that. They just need to shut the whole thing down.

We had a meeting this morning with hospital leadership, with a Telex in WebEx with university leadership, and some folks from the state and the CDC. bottom line up front, this is going to get worse before it gets better, and they can see this thing going on for anywhere from 6 to 10 months before we start to see daylight.

Of course, anything can happen but that's based on data from the last two days.
 
@drypowder , I really like your list a few posts up. I kind of liken it to Roosevelt's suspension of all banking and shutting down Wall Street in 1933 for 4 days to allow a reset and time to implement policy.

Regarding the NCAA tournament, it pisses me off but I understand it, but it's also hypocritical. I understand social distancing for safety, but bringing teams from diverse geographic regions to get together and literally be up in each other's faces for 40 minutes of basketball? Yeah there's a problem with that. They just need to shut the whole thing down.

We had a meeting this morning with hospital leadership, with a Telex in WebEx with university leadership, and some folks from the state and the CDC. bottom line up front, this is going to get worse before it gets better, and they can see this thing going on for anywhere from 6 to 10 months before we start to see daylight.

Of course, anything can happen but that's based on data from the last two days.

Everyone I know in the medical community understands that it is a when not if for this thing to be in all 50 states. It has the potential to overwhelm the healthcare system in this country. If the rates get high enough there are not enough ICU beds in this country to deal with the % we have seen in Italy, China, South Korea etc.... It will not take a jump in infection to hospitalization rates to to cripple the system. This is the same info my friend in KY at UK who does critical care and anesthesia was telling me last Friday.

I also agree about the NCAA games but if they don't play the games the NCAA is going to lose their TV revenue. They make a lot more from the TV revenue then they do from the game sites. The real losers are the host locations and the businesses like hotels, restaurants, bars etc.... who will all lose money. Its the same with cancelled music and film festivals like NXNW which is going to devistate small business in Austin, TX.
 
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Everyone I know in the medical community understands that it is a when not if for this thing to be in all 50 states. It has the potential to overwhelm the healthcare system in this country. If the rates get high enough there are not enough ICU beds in this country to deal with the % we have seen in Italy, China, South Korea etc.... It will not take a jump in infection to hospitalization rates to to cripple the system. This is the same info my friend in KY at UK who does critical care and anesthesia was telling me last Friday.

I also agree about the NCAA games but if they don't play the games the NCAA is going to lose their TV revenue. They make a lot more from the TV revenue then they do from the game sites. The real losers are the host locations and the businesses like hotels, restaurants, bars etc.... who will all lose money. Its the same with cancelled music and film festivals like NXNW which is going to devistate small business in Austin, TX.

Agreed. There seems to be a coordinated effort to slow the process so it can be managed better. Not prevent it. That is not possible. The U of SC has cancelled classes next week, and then has 2 weeks of online classes after. That tells me this is pretty serious. Their new President was the President at West Point has has a ton of military and gov’t connections. And knowledge we don’t. My guess is he is being told that this could be a huge problem so he’s taking extreme measures. Everybody is probably going to pay a price financially either directly or indirectly. Sucks, but that’s life.
 
Their new President was the President at West Point has has a ton of military and gov’t connections. And knowledge we don’t.
There’s probably a bunch of “high level” people looking at satellite pictures and other intelligence regarding what truly happened in China and saying, “ oh shit!”.
 
Regarding the NCAA tournament, it pisses me off but I understand it, but it's also hypocritical. I understand social distancing for safety, but bringing teams from diverse geographic regions to get together and literally be up in each other's faces for 40 minutes of basketball? Yeah there's a problem with that. They just need to shut the whole thing down.
Yep, I agree that postponing or canceling the games altogether would be ideal. But not having fans in attendance is much better than a packed indoor stadium.

For those who think that the list of steps I suggested is harsh, consider that every country with a medium to large number of cases, with the exceptions of Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore and South Korea, tried to slow play it initially, worrying about the economic ramifications of a more drastic approach. As the cases multiplied exponentially, all started to understand that a drastic approach is necessary. The US is on the verge of falling into that same trap. Slow playing it and telling everyone to keep calm, "it's just a flu, bro" doesn't stave off panic once the hospitals are full. And then the panic (and economic impact) will be much worse because the people will feel leaderless and not trust anything the government tells them.

Please read that article I linked above from a doctor in Italy. This is northern Italy (not the poorer south, and certainly not a third world country), and their hospitals are drowning. They are treating people in the corridors for lack of space.

This is NOT the flu. One key difference that impacts hospitals is length of illness. This virus is knocking some healthy people on their ass for a few WEEKS, not just 2-3 days like the flu. And for those who need acute medical care, they are often in hospital for 6 weeks or even longer. Think about that length of hospital stay in the context of an infection that will grow exponentially if no checks are applied - before you know it, the hospitals will be overflowing - which means people dying who could have been saved by a healthcare system that is not overwhelmed.

We need to test like South Korea. That means everyone who wants to be tested can get tested. With millions of test kits shipping this week, that should be possible, but we have to minimize the hurdles. People aren't going to get tested if it costs them a lot, or if a positive result means they have to forego pay and self-quarantine. Trump admin and insurers addressed the testing cost issue yesterday, so that's good. Now they have to incentivize people who test positive to self-quarantine. Once we test a few million people, we will have a much better picture of the entire iceberg of the epidemic, and we can start linking those cases into transmission chains.

If it turns out that most infected persons fall into identifiable transmission chains, we can ease up on the social distancing measures (which are like a scattergun approach) because now we'll know where to look for new cases (contacts of those in the transmission chain), so we can fall back to a sniper rifle approach. But until we get a handle on the scope of the unseen infection spread, social distancing is critical, especially because we don't have enough masks to rely on those.
 
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My wife, grown kids, and their girlfriend and boyfriend have airline tickets to go to Cocoa Beach for spring break next week. Our connecting flight is in Atlanta. Lol. Delta still hasn't cancelled our flight......... but we have. Common sense is all I can say. Use common sense. We are still going on our trip. Just going to drive instead of fly.

The last thing I want to happen is that we all get exposed at Hartsfield International, the world's busiest airport, and I have to set there and watch my family and cousins and everyone around us down in Florida get sick as well and it's all happening because we were too stupid and selfish to not cancel our flight.
 
My wife, grown kids, and their girlfriend and boyfriend have airline tickets to go to Cocoa Beach for spring break next week. Our connecting flight is in Atlanta. Lol. Delta still hasn't cancelled our flight......... but we have. Common sense is all I can say. Use common sense. We are still going on our trip. Just going to drive instead of fly.

The last thing I want to happen is that we all get exposed at Hartsfield International, the world's busiest airport, and I have to set there and watch my family and cousins and everyone around us down in Florida get sick as well and it's all happening because we were too stupid and selfish to not cancel our flight.

They just cancelled my daughter’s v-ball tourney in St. Louis. I am happy. But they waited too long. My wife already checked in for her flight and we are past the hotel cancellation deadline. So we are at least on the hook for 1 night of the hotel. Not sure about the airline tickets yet. But that’s all better than one or both of them getting quarantined for weeks in St. Louis. The mighty mite is pissed, but she’ll get over it.
 
Trump's speech was underwhelming, but definitely a good step in the right direction. I don't think he'll be comparing it to the flu anymore, at least not until we get a lot of testing done to determine the scope of infection spread.

Biggest change was suspending travel from Europe. Biggest/ most surprising warning for those who haven't been paying attention was advising nursing homes to suspend all medically unnecessary visits and for older Americans to avoid non-essential travel in crowded areas.

Overall, a very good shift in tone, but I think he and his administration will need to keep pushing forward to get ahead of this, both in reality and in perception.
 
Well....... I just got informed by the Commander in Chief of Qball's world that she really doesn't want to drive to Florida. Not because of fear, she just hates long car rides.

Using common sense again, I think we'll probably stay put because there could be an outbreak in say, Jacksonville, FL for example, and the authorities decide to shut down I-95 and any other roads coming out of Florida, while we're down there. In other words, we would be stuck.

Not sure I want to be stuck down there for who knows how long,
 
Bad flu seasons stretch staffing, equipment, and medicine thin. There have been nights we run out of bipaps and vents and have to call a rental company to bring some in.

Doubling the amount of patients would pretty much cripple local hospitals.

That is what the avg person not tied to the healthcare system does not understand. The avg hospital in the US simply can't handle it.
 
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When the hospitals are overrun, I wonder if they'll start kicking out all the illegals and tax leeches in order to treat those that have paid into the medical system their entire life.

Just kidding, I know the answer.

Depending where you live most of the deadbeat leeches in the local medical system were born and breed in this country. You are right though they are tax leeches but most having paid anything into the medical system.
 
WRAL said in a story that Campbell College has a student that is possibly positive


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Well....... I just got informed by the Commander in Chief of Qball's world that she really doesn't want to drive to Florida. Not because of fear, she just hates long car rides.

Using common sense again, I think we'll probably stay put because there could be an outbreak in say, Jacksonville, FL for example, and the authorities decide to shut down I-95 and any other roads coming out of Florida, while we're down there. In other words, we would be stuck.

Not sure I want to be stuck down there for who knows how long,

this was my exact fear with my daughter being with stupid in laws up north.

I drove 600 miles to beat that possibility. Funny thing is, morning of me leaving NY started quarantining highly impacted areas.

I’m sure the legality would not restrict travel for out of state residents unless Cuomo had federal approval though. Would be unlikely NY governor could detain a out of state resident. But I’m no lawyer and needed piece of mind. Daughter is back safely at home.
 
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Truth. In Japan I think they just wrote a check to everyone for 10,000 yen. Said do with it what you need.

That's like $97?

Reading thru this thread is reminiscent of playing the online game "Pandemic" and seeing the headlines flash across the screen as your disease progresses. I keep waiting to see that Madagascar has closed its borders.
 
I don’t get 80% of memes for this thread. Iya a little early to be drinking
 
So the Dow is currently down nearly 25% from its all time high. What do y'all think,... will it go much lower? Is it time to panic LOL? I still don't worry too much about Corona, but the market is taking a frigging beating.
 
This guy is a tool...
NBA’s Rudy Gobert mocked coronavirus by touching reporters’ mics, phones. Then he tested positive.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/03/12/rudy-gobert-mocked-coronavirus-utah-jazz/



I don't pay attention to sports, but our local talk station does ESPN radio at night and I was listening to it while driving last night. They were talking about the lawsuit potential if any of those reporters or camera crew come down with coronavirus. One of them said he'd retire on what Gobert would have to pay him. They were really deriding him over it.

They also played a brief interview with Mark Cuban after he got official word (during the game) about the NBA suspending play. I was pretty impressed with Cuban's response, which was off the cuff, as they interviewed him as soon as they could during a break in the game. He had had no time to prepare a statement. One of his major concerns was for the thousands of people in concessions, memorabilia, etc. who would be majorly impacted by this. He said the players and owners would be fine out of work, but he was really concerned about the others who rely on the games to make a living and they would be working on plans to help them. I'm not a 100% fan of Cuban, but he does seem to have more of a heart for the "little guy" than some of his peers.
 
I don't pay attention to sports, but our local talk station does ESPN radio at night and I was listening to it while driving last night. They were talking about the lawsuit potential if any of those reporters or camera crew come down with coronavirus. One of them said he'd retire on what Gobert would have to pay him. They were really deriding him over it.

They also played a brief interview with Mark Cuban after he got official word (during the game) about the NBA suspending play. I was pretty impressed with Cuban's response, which was off the cuff, as they interviewed him as soon as they could during a break in the game. He had had no time to prepare a statement. One of his major concerns was for the thousands of people in concessions, memorabilia, etc. who would be majorly impacted by this. He said the players and owners would be fine out of work, but he was really concerned about the others who rely on the games to make a living and they would be working on plans to help them. I'm not a 100% fan of Cuban, but he does seem to have more of a heart for the "little guy" than some of his peers.

Yup. Think about all the businesses, servers, concession sellers, janitors, parking attendants, security people etc.... that will all be out of work. Businesses who are already on the margins are going to go under. It is going to get worse before it gets better. It will be interesting to see what legislation gets passed. How much goes to big business vs small business vs individual workers.
 
Much better briefing today, in terms of tone. I think/hope Trump is starting to accept that downplaying this will backfire badly.

I still think Pence should be replaced. This guy doesn't even understand exactly what community transmission is, after all his intensive work with the task force. I'm not sure he appreciates the potential for exponential growth. They are still allowing cruises to run. Big mistake. They are decanting hundreds of people off that floating petri dish and filling up our limited quarantine centers. And we are going to have to do this with every ship that has even one infected person. At 2500-3500 passengers+crew on most of these cruises, the odds of having at least one infected person is not insignificant.
Where's Ben Carson?
 
Where's Ben Carson?

He is busy dismantling HUD. :eek: Also he is a brain surgeon not an epidemiologist but at least would bring a real medical background to the dicussion.
 
NBA suspends season after Jazz player tests positive.
Additionally, NHL, MLS, MLB are all suspending seasons. NCAA March Madness canceled - not just games w/o fans, but straight up canceled.

I realize many will view this as overreaction, but until we have more testing (we have tested less than many other countries as a result of CDC completely FUBAR'ing the response), we have to assume the virus is in every city, not just the large coastal cities. So all large gatherings should be canceled until we get a handle on how widespread the virus is.

I still think Pence should be replaced by Gottlieb. Hell, Trump is even re-tweeting Gottlieb.
 
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Additionally, NHL, MLS, MLB are all suspending seasons. NCAA March Madness canceled - not just games w/o fans, but straight up canceled.

I realize many will view this as overreaction, but until we have more testing (we have tested less than many other countries as a result of CDC completely FUBAR'ing the response), we have to assume the virus is in every city, not just the large coastal cities. So all large gatherings should be canceled until we get a handle on how widespread the virus is.

I still think Pence should be replaced by Gottlieb. Hell, Trump is even re-tweeting Gottlieb.

To put it into perspective on testing. South Korea is test more people daily than we have tested in total. Without the testing you can't track the transmission. If you can track transmission you cannot contain it. Shutting the boarders once the virus is already here is not going to stop this thing. Right now S. Korea and China are the 2 places that have gotten control of this virus. We are not doing any of the things that helped these 2 countries slows the spread of the virus. We are doing sell than Italy. Think about that less than Italy.....
 
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