What the?? 11.5” barrel AR with a stock...not NFA? WTH???

According to the NFA an SBR is any firearm with a buttstock that has a rifled barrel of less than sixteen inches, or an overall length of less than twenty six inches. The total length is measured in the extended position.
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Telescoping buffer tube?
 
I hope it is correct. Followingin the “firearm” steps of the Mossberg Shockwave and Remington Tac 14 this would make the liberal gun controllers go crazy with its size plus a binary trigger too!
 
Not a rifle, and not a shotgun. Also said that there is something new that they have patented.

They don’t mention caliber or cartridge, maybe it’s actually a muzzleloader?
 
Maybe the barrel isn't rifled. If the regulation says specifically a 16" rifled barrel, then that could be the loophole. I can't imagine accuracy would be good at distance, but for home defense situations it's probably adequate.
 
Damn! Did Franklin Armory just put a stock on a pistol with the argument it's a brace, whats the difference? So no need to SBR anymore?
 
np307 said:
Maybe the barrel isn't rifled. If the regulation says specifically a 16" rifled barrel, then that could be the loophole. I can't imagine accuracy would be good at distance, but for home defense situations it's probably adequate.
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No, I think that just gets you a short barreled shotgun.

Almost has to be that with the stock fully extended it’s over the minimum overall length, so maybe the stock has several layers of tubing and extends like an FM radio antenna. It could extend a foot, and you couldn’t shoot it as such, but maybe that’s okay.

Stupid gimmick to beat a stupid rule.
 
I didn't see this thread before I posted elsewhere...so I just merged mine into this one. Same link as the OP.

https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/201...arrel-firearm-standard-ar-stock-atf-approval/

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Definitely has a stock. Definitely designed to be fired from the shoulder. Barrel is under 16", so doesn't matter if it was at least 26" OAL. According to a thread on ARF, one of Franklin's social media feeds (FB, I think) claimed its not smoothbore.

I'm curious what the game is...
 
I read on their website that the OAL was 1" longer making it 27" even if the muzzle device is removed.
 
JimB said:
Almost has to be that with the stock fully extended it’s over the minimum overall length, so maybe the stock has several layers of tubing and extends like an FM radio antenna. It could extend a foot, and you couldn’t shoot it as such, but maybe that’s okay.
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SBR rule is barrel under 16" or OAL under 26". So, it doesn't matter about the OAL if it has an 11.5" barrel.

I'll admit I'm puzzled at the moment.
 
Diverdad said:
I read on their website that the OAL was 1" longer making it 27" even if the muzzle device is removed.
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Doesn't matter. Barrel is measured from bolt face to end of barrel, or to end of permanently attached (pin/weld or 1100F silver solder) muzzle device.

This one is designed to be fired from the shoulder, apparently isn't smooth bore, and has an 11.5" barrel.

There's a loophole, but I haven't processed the thought, yet.
 
BigWaylon said:
Doesn't matter. Barrel is measured from bolt face to end of barrel, or to end of permanently attached (pin/weld or 1100F silver solder) muzzle device.

This one is designed to be fired from the shoulder, apparently isn't smooth bore, and has an 11.5" barrel.

There's a loophole, but I haven't processed the thought, yet.
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I’m gonna to go way out yonder and wonder if it has to be something different with the rifling in the barrel or maybe the barrel extends into the upper receiver
 
Barrel can't be extending into the upper unless that's a funky proprietary mag with a really short round chambered.

Somehow they got this thing classified as either a pistol or "firearm" (as in doesn't meet any defined classification not AOW) based on the add because it says it's not a rifle or shotgun.
 
If this is something that's easily copied I'm totally gonna do it to my .50 Beowulf pistol that's in the works.
 
How about a push trigger?

Neither a pistol nor a rifle because it doesn’t fire any rounds upon a pull of the trigger.
 
np307 said:
Maybe the barrel isn't rifled. If the regulation says specifically a 16" rifled barrel, then that could be the loophole. I can't imagine accuracy would be good at distance, but for home defense situations it's probably adequate.
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That’s my guess. Unrifled barrel
 
ATF measures barrel length from the end of barrel to the closed bolt face. Perm’d barrel wouldn’t matter
 
BigWaylon said:
Supposedly their FB page says it's not smoothbore.
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Is there some sort of in between rifling that would place it between a normal rifled barrel and a smoothbore there would still be within the law? Otherwise I’m not seeing how they are pulling this off
 
11B CIB said:
Is there some sort of in between rifling that would place it between a normal rifled barrel and a smoothbore there would still be within the law? Otherwise I’m not seeing how they are pulling this off
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That was one of the theories I saw posted elsewhere.

One of my favorite guesses somebody had was that the muzzle device had an extendable shield of some kind that was perm attached but tucked inside the handguard. You extended it for measurements (like a collapsible stock) but then could collapse it to shoot. Hmmm...
 
BigWaylon said:
That was one of the theories I saw posted elsewhere.

One of my favorite guesses somebody had was that the muzzle device had an extendable shield of some kind that was perm attached but tucked inside the handguard. You extended it for measurements (like a collapsible stock) but then could collapse it to shoot. Hmmm...
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Don't think that would work as that's the reason to pin and weld a longer flash hinder on a 14.5" bbl. I'm still thinking its in the stock reading of a pistol. Yes the stock appears to be a unmodified Magpull but what if you can not extend it? IE receiver extension has no recess for the locking mechanism.

CD
 
Combat Diver said:
1. Don't think that would work as that's the reason to pin and weld a longer flash hinder on a 14.5" bbl.


2. I'm still thinking its in the stock reading of a pistol. Yes the stock appears to be a unmodified Magpull but what if you can not extend it? IE receiver extension has no recess for the locking mechanism.

CD
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I don't see why the extendable shield wouldn't legally work. You pin a muzzle device to get to 16", and that's the same reason you'd pin a collapsible shield. The OAL measurement states to extend a collapsible stock before measuring...so could you also extend the shield for measuring?

The con against it is that would also count in the rifle (which is a good thing), but then I don't believe they would advertise it as 11.5".

2. Why would that be different than any other fixed stock?


We're either gonna have an "ahhhhh....why didn't I think of that!" moment or a "doh...why didn't I think of that moment?" :D
 
If y'all are lost and haven't figured it out there aint nothing I'm going to add to this to figure it out. LOL

Tagged to see where this goes.
 
Ok, here's another theory I just read:

An attorney friend of mine once pointed out that the 16” barrel limit only applies to a weapon made from a rifle and not to a weapon made from, say, a pistol. In his case he was describing that it would be legal to build one of those glock carbine kits with a barrel shorter than 16” as long as the OAL was over 26”

I don’t see why this argument couldn’t apply to a weapon that was built in this configuration to start with.

Have to think about that one for a minute...and go back and read the definition of SBR again.
 
Stop the presses, why can I find no mention of this on the Franklin Armory website? Don’t even see the press release.

Is it a personal coffee issue?

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It's the trigger. They have that binary trigger, so if this gun doesn't have a semi auto only trigger, then it isn't technically a rifle. And if it isn't a rifle, it obviously can't be a short barreled rifle. Here's the legal definition of rifle:

(c)Rifle

The term “rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.
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And just for good measure, legal definitions for SBR

(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
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Edit to add link for those definitions https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/5845
 
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