"Brutal’ attack on pregnant woman at Publix ends when witness pulls gun, Florida cops say"

This is one of those situations that can get you in trouble no matter which way you go.

Years ago my wife and I were shopping in a Sears department store and we witnessed a man punch his girlfriend/wife in the face. Several of us seeing this moved to intervene when she shouted at him “don’t you ever hit me in public again“. She then told us to mind our own &#@%’n business as he stood there staring at the floor.

That situation uncomfortably resolved itself but had he continued to hit her or in this case facing a life threatening level of violence, you’re forced to decide on a course of action that could result in prosecution if you walk away or civil proceedings if you defend.

Tough choice that I hope none of us has to make but feel most if able would choose to save a life.
 
biganimal said:
Not one word of my statement implied I would be happy to see someone get hurt. But If you think I’m indifferent you’re correct. You said we’re talking people not cattle. Well, cattle are animals and these type of folks are animals. If a lion was attacking his lioness, or if a gorilla was beating his mate, I would not interfere. Why? Because it’s what animals do.

You may think I’m cold & uncaring but really I’m not. Like I stated I’ll not get involved unless it’s kin or friend. And why is that?
Because I have no desire to lose my life or to lose all my worldly goods because some animal chooses to attack someone.

I have two good friends that found themselves in similar situations. One ended up with an artery in his leg opened up when the beater pulled a knife, he died on the sidewalk at age 27.
In another incident another friend kicked the attacker in the head to stop him from cutting the girl up. The attacker suffered brain damage and the bimbo that he attacked sued my friend for 2.8 million dollars. He lost his wife, home and business as a result. My friend took his own life 16 months later. He was 34.
I’ll continue to be indifferent and walk on by.
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Not getting involved is your prerogative, but disagree with you. Your analogy about a lion or gorilla attacking their mate just proves my point about dehumanization. The woman in this case was the victim and yet you would not try to save her because you believe her mate is an animal and therefore so is she? Do you think a pregnant women deserves to be beaten to death just because she ended up in an abusive relationship? You don't even know how things got to that point for her. Maybe he was always abusive and she made a bad decision. Maybe he wasn't always abusive and he ended up that way sometime later. The point is you don't know. And either way it doesn't justify what he was doing to her. To automatically assume the worst of not just the perpetrator but also the victim is just ridiculous. I'm sorry about what happened to your friends, but not every situation is the same. There are many cases of someone saving someone else without losing their life/livelihood. Regardless, I believe that a persons life is way more precious than your "worldly goods". You can't take them with you when you die, but you can make a positive difference in someone else's life.
 
RedFox099 said:
Do you think a pregnant women deserves to be beaten to death just because she ended up in an abusive relationship?
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I don't think it's that simple, and I think some of your other statements in your post allude to this.

It's not that "a pregnant women [sic] deserves to be beaten to death" so much as the person who takes the risk of intervening DOESN'T deserve to be turned upon for stepping in.

While most of us here think in very black and white terms with respect to such violence, the fact is that domestic violence/abuse is very often NOT so when it comes to how a significant fraction of the people in such relationship ACTUALLY behave.

One can quite literally see a person getting beaten to a bloody pulp, even attacked with weapons, and yet have the victim turn on the savior who steps in to put a stop to the violence...even defending their abuser against him to the point of turning law enforcement and the courts on him.

As in ANY violent encounter, exactly what actions to take (or not to take) will vary from scenario to scenario, as well as from individual to individual. And we can, of course, all postulate all kinds of circumstances to support any given viewpoint. How I might respond to one instance of domestic violence I may happen upon could very well differ radically from another instance...from being a "good witness" in one instance and using deadly force in the other.

There is no 100% "correct" answer to fit all circumstances.
 
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Artg56 said:
This is one of those situations that can get you in trouble no matter which way you go.
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I see no 'trouble' in walking away and calling in the social workers. Let them step in the domestic mess, not their ass if they do the wrong thing.
 
Artg56 said:
This is one of those situations that can get you in trouble no matter which way you go.

Years ago my wife and I were shopping in a Sears department store and we witnessed a man punch his girlfriend/wife in the face. Several of us seeing this moved to intervene when she shouted at him “don’t you ever hit me in public again“. She then told us to mind our own &#@%’n business as he stood there staring at the floor.

That situation uncomfortably resolved itself but had he continued to hit her or in this case facing a life threatening level of violence, you’re forced to decide on a course of action that could result in prosecution if you walk away or civil proceedings if you defend.

Tough choice that I hope none of us has to make but feel most if able would choose to save a life.
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I could not find online any "Duty to assist law" in North Carolina that could result in prosecution if you walked away. There are states that do have it. If there is one here in NC I missed please post a link since I would be interested in reading it.
 
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Jim1392 said:
I could not find online any "Duty to assist law" in North Carolina that could result in prosecution if you walked away. There are states that do have it.
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That can't be a thing for civilians. I can see if you're an EMT or cop or something maybe, but they can't hold random people accountable for not doing anything. Even CA isn't that nutty.....
 
Jayne said:
That can't be a thing for civilians. I can see if you're an EMT or cop or something maybe, but they can't hold random people accountable for not doing anything. Even CA isn't that nutty.....
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This is what I found for civilians. The last line sums it up for me.​

No Duty to Rescue​

At common law and in most states, people, generally, have no duty to help or rescue another person. You would only have a duty to help if you created the peril, you started trying to rescue or help, or you have a special relationship, such as parent-child, with the person in need.

State Exceptions​

However, some states have laws that do impose a duty to assist people in need. These laws do vary from state to state:

  1. Wisconsin -- In Wisconsin, if you know that a crime is being committed, and that a victim has suffered or may suffer bodily harm, you have a duty to call police or provide assistance
  2. Minnesota -- If you are at the scene of an emergency and you know that someone has suffered grave physical harm, or could be hurt, you have a duty to give "reasonable assistance." Reasonable assistance can mean calling or attempting to call police or medical personnel.
  3. Rhode Island -- If you know that person is a victim of sexual assault, murder, manslaughter, or armed robbery and you were at the scene of the crime, then you need to report the crime to law enforcement. Failure to do so is punishable by up to six months in jail or a fine of $500 to $1,000.
  4. California -- When you reasonably know or believe that a child under 14 years of age has been a victim of murder, rape, or lewd and lascivious acts, you must notify law enforcement. Failure to do so is excused if you feared for your own safety, or you are related to either the victim or the offender.
  5. Florida -- In Florida, if you witness a sexual battery, you need to immediately report the offense to law enforcement. Violation of this law is a first degree misdemeanor.
Other states that have similar statutes include Ohio, Massachusetts, Vermont, Hawaii, and Washington.

Most people think the willingness to help others in an emergency is a moral choice. It is, but it also has legal consequences, so it is helpful to understand the law in your area so you can make the best choice possible if you are ever in this situation.
 
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Reading this thread has made me go from a "oh, that is simple... I would do this!"
to .. "it is more complicated" and decide that I would have to decide on the spot.

I am just glad it worked out for the guy who intervened..., since that is all we seem to know here.
 
Have some minor experience with domestic violence; as First Sergeant in the Air Force. Most times, once the immediate fight was interrupted spouses closed ranks to protect each other.

I had a dependent husband arrested for child abuse - 2 month old with fractured skull while she was at work. She defended him in the face of overwhelming evidence his version of events was a total crock of BS. To the point of risking losing custody of both her children.

I would probably act to stop the beating, knowing she might come at me. I have to live with myself; so I would do what I thought right and take the consequences.
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
While most of us here think in very black and white terms with respect to such violence, the fact is that domestic violence/abuse is very often NOT so when it comes to how a significant fraction of the people in such relationship ACTUALLY behave.
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Not exactly relevant to this discussion, but witnessing my own mothers behavior, especially towards my father as she gets older (and presumably loses her mind), not all abuse is physical. Verbal abuse is very real and can rightfully illicit a violent response which is something that is frequently overlooked in the legal system.
 
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