CCW Status Linked to License Plate Number?
- Thread starter Carlos Danger
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While I don't agree with it but yes the cop could claim officer safety and get away with searching your car.
You have a duty to inform IF YOU ARE CARRYING. If you are NOT carrying you have no duty to say you have a permit but aren't carrying.
Got stopped at a license check with son in law, brother in law and me; son in law was driving and tells officer he has a permit but isn't carrying; b-in-l says same thing. I was riding shotgun; told the officer I have a permit and AM carrying. He said good for you; looked at the other 2 and said what's with all you people getting permits and NOT carrying? Shook his head and waved us on...
Got stopped at a license check with son in law, brother in law and me; son in law was driving and tells officer he has a permit but isn't carrying; b-in-l says same thing. I was riding shotgun; told the officer I have a permit and AM carrying. He said good for you; looked at the other 2 and said what's with all you people getting permits and NOT carrying? Shook his head and waved us on...
Im inclined to agree with your reasoning. While you have a duty to disclose if you are, you have no such duty if you‘re not and there is no governing statue regarding such situation. Hence, it defaults to the, if not prohibited by statute it remains, oblique.
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Like the myth about getting a tax stamp and NFA item the ATF could come search your house anytime they want. A couple members hit the nail on the head upstream.
Just because you have a permit, you do not give up your rights. And the law specifically states you have a duty to inform while carrying. Nothing in the statue about notifying when you are not carrying.
And for officer safety, they must be able to articulate why they believed you and a firearm was a threat. Like they stopped you because your vehicle fits the description of a car used in an armed robbery. Or matches the description of a vehicle a suspect used to flee a violent assault etc.
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I heard that the reason they do it is because people still call it a CCW instead of CHP. They said as soon as people call it the correct name, they’ll stop tagging your tag. But until then, how can they trust people if they don’t even call it the right name?
I think the issue here was more specifically if cops in other States get access to the info that you have a CHP. We know in NC they do but say what happens if you drive in Maryland? That's what nobody had a real clear answer on.
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I’ve driven through MD a dozen times over the last 5-7 years with zero issues. Hell, I drove through DC and had zero issues.
Like someone said above, the percentage of people actually having a CHP is very low. Cops have better things to do than to wait for one out of a 100 cars that might have a ping on their tag, only to maybe find something in the car, and then to have a very small chance that the something is being transported incorrectly.
Now if you were being stupid and speeding, now it’s bonus points if they already had you pulled for something else. But it had zero to do with the data that could have been mined from running your tag.
@Big Dave if you run an out of state tag, how much driver info do you get?
Regardless, do not consent to a search. If they think they have probable cause, they may search anyway, but do NOT consent. That is my plan. It may lengthen my time on the side of the road, but I will make time to exercise my constitutional rights.
I agree. Being retired opens up a lot of opportunity for these kinds of decisions, that might otherwise not be on the table.
It’s funny that one is worried about a permit being linked a DL but not worried about all the other list one is on by owning firearms, ammo, NFA items or by just simply being a member of this forum.
Seems like a bunch of paranoia
Seems like a bunch of paranoia
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CHPs are NOT connected to a vehicle registration in any state with a CHP process. They ARE connected to the CHP holders drivers license only.
When LEOs run an out of state tag. They ONLY get the vehicle registration information. NO CHP information comes in UNTIL the officer runs the individual’s information. The same as an in state vehicle registration.
The topic of this thread is specifically about CHPs being linked to license plates. I don't remember anyone stating that they were NOT worried about other lists. I am sure some are. I've often joked with my friends that I'm sure to be on someone's radar, and they have to wear sunglasses to look at my blip on the screen.
I remember a few years back reading about a guy from Florida being pulled over by a Maryland LEO and was immediately asked "where is the gun". He spent a few hours on the side of the road while they went through his vehicle searching for it. It wasn't in the car, it was left at his home before the trip. I'm not sure we can label this topic as paranoia, maybe more of a topic worthy of discussion.
ON EDIT:
Here is the story.
https://www.inquisitr.com/1104930/m...lder-over-an-hour-during-search-for-legal-gun
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ES44AC
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This is the very reason I don't believe it should be attached to our Plates. It will cause unreasonable and unnecessary searches behind enemy lines.
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Average Joe
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They are not attached to your plates, (vehicle registration). As I said above they are only attached to the individual CHP holders drivers license.
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Below is a more detailed article. Filippidis was stopped, the officer approached got his drivers license and registration. Went back to his patrol vehicle and returned 10 minutes later. That is when he asked about the gun.
Your CHP is not attached to your vehicle registration. The officer would have found out when he ran Filippidis drivers license, not his vehicle.
The officer claims he smelled marijuana when he first approached the vehicle and that was the probable cause he used to search the car. Not because he denied having his gun. For the officers version about smelling marijuana, I don’t know, I cannot find any other information. And the MTA would not release any of their internal reports.
However, I can say this. I-95 is a drug corridor. Vehicles traveling north have the drugs. Vehicles traveling south have the money. The way Filippidis described the stop, pulling beside them, moving in front, and then getting behind them, was the officer looking for indicators that they were involved with drug smuggling.
I am not justifying the officers actions and saying he was right. I’m simply saying there is more to the story than Filippidis driving down the and the officer runs his tag and stops him because of his CHP from FL.
I’m not sure how this incident evolved into the myth that they stopped him because his CHP from FL was connected to his vehicle registration. Guess it’s like all tales, it changes a little at a time until it has a life of its own. I have 31 years experience as a LEO. My wife is a dispatcher with 15 years experience.
The only information that returns when a LEO or automatic tag reader runs a tag is the vehicle information. Nothing else, the LEO must run the individuals drivers license info on their MDT or by requesting the dispatcher run the info for them.
Read the article, you will see that he was stopped, handed over this drivers license & vehicle registration. The officer did not mention the gun upon the initial approach. It was not until approximately 10 minutes later when the officer reproached was he questioned about the gun. The time frame of approximately 10 minutes is inline with the usual delay in running an out of state drivers license.
“According to Mr. Filippidis, he was just barely into Maryland when he noticed he was being followed by an unmarked patrol car. It ran alongside them for a while, then in front, and pulled in behind them. For ten minutes. Finally, the lights came on, and they pulled over. Mr. F provides his license and registration, and then waited. For ten more minutes.
The officer, who was from the Transportation Authority Police, Maryland’s version of the NY Port Authority, orders Mr. F out of the vehicle, took him back behind the SUV and ordered him to hook his thumbs behind his back and spread his feet. Then, according to Mr. F, he heard the officer say something he never expected. “You own a gun. Where is it?””
Florida Gun Owner Not Welcome In Maryland - The Truth About Guns
◀Previous Post Next Post▶ John Filippidis thought he was prepared for his Christmas roadtrip. He knew he’d be passing through some states in the northeast that didn’t value his Second Amendment rights as much as his home state of Florida—that is to say, “at all”—so he left his EDC, a...
www.thetruthaboutguns.com
Assuming Maryland LEO have similar access to information, they could theoretically run out of state plates, and then run the registered owners license information if they wanted to figure out if the person had a CHP… even though they can’t be sure that the owner is the person actually driving the vehicle
Sounds like a whole lot of work… I can imagine that there might’ve been one or two officers that “made a big bust” by doing this, but I’d venture that 99.9% of officers are only going to do if they’ve already pulled you over for some other infraction
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You nailed it! I-95 is a well known drug corridor. It is not unusual for officers the find a reason to stop a vehicle in hopes of getting a big drug bust or money seizure.
From my BIL sheriff’s deputy, a CHP is linked to a vehicle’s license plate IF the registered owners have a CHP. So my vehicle is registered in my name and my wife’s. If they run my tags, it will pull up my DL and my wife’s and we both have our CHP. If my wife did not have her CHP and her vehicle was only registered to her and I was driving the vehicle, then it would not pull up that I had my CHP until the officer took my DL and ran it.
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Where he works they may have a policy to run the registered owners license when they run a tag. If that is so, then yes, it will show. But only under your license, not the vehicle registration. If only a vehicle tag/registration is ran. It will only show the information regarding the vehicle.
Maybe I don’t know. It’s all linked and intertwined somehow.
Only time it would really matter to me is if I travel through a state that has laws that doesn’t like my CHP.
The crap that cops have to deal with and put up with these days, it’s no wonder they are nervous and jumpy. Just because of the few bad cops, the rest get painted bad also. Plus the biggest reason, there is no respect for authority any more.
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Yeah it’s more information than I want about myself in a gov data base lol. And they make it super easy to find the info.
From that article:Florida Gun Owner Not Welcome In Maryland - The Truth About Guns
◀Previous Post Next Post▶ John Filippidis thought he was prepared for his Christmas roadtrip. He knew he’d be passing through some states in the northeast that didn’t value his Second Amendment rights as much as his home state of Florida—that is to say, “at all”—so he left his EDC, a...www.thetruthaboutguns.com
“Maryland has an intelligence hub known as the Maryland Coordination and Analysis Center. According to TCH, “the intelligence analysis hub has access to, and contains, Florida’s CCW list (among other identification systems) and mines the state’s database systems for vehicle plate numbers of the holders. These license plate numbers are then stored in a cross referencing database within the Maryland Coordination and Analysis Center.” But that’s just the beginning. ”
So it sounds to me like Maryland DOES have plates linked to CHPs.
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I'm not familiar with that system itself. Going to do more research. I'm aware and have trained in NY and know their types of intelligence and data analysis. What is described in that article is much different. Sounds as though they are creating their own motor vehicle records division. I know the system they mentioned that are setup at certain access points and automatically scans tags as they go by for connections to criminal activity. But they only check for criminal connections. I believe a system as described in the article that checks for out of state CHP would be a serious violation of our constitutional rights. Just because you have a permit does not give any officer the right to stop you and ask.
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Another thing that gives me pause is that the only case I find is Mr. Filippidis case from 2014. If this was really happening only from a CHP hit, we would see a lot more cases. I-95 is a major travel route for northern states to Florida. I have no stats to back it up but I dare say it is north of 200K cars from Florida, pass through Maryland every year.
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He pulled a guy Friday night, two big bags of weed in the car, Ruger 5.7 in glove box, no gun charge but it was confiscated and he was arrested for the weed." I smell weed" (captain danny brown, richland county sc SO)
Proper response:
"I know you're a CCW holder, but you don't have one on you? That's UNSAT! Wait one moment and I'll dig up one of my spares you can have."
If they can find it, so can the hacker in Uzbekistan.
They’re called snow birds.
First, check the wording of your jurisdictional laws.
In SC, the straight answer is "no", so long as there's no official interaction between you and the officer. If, however, an official interaction DOES take place, then there is a legal obligation under SC state law. The question, then, would be "what constitutes an official interaction?"
In SC, this official interaction requires two specific things to take place:
1. The officer identifies himself as a LEO.
2. The officer requests identification or driver's license from the permit holder.
If these two conditions are met for the passenger, then the passenger MUST inform the officer.
I imagine there are some gray areas, like whether or not he officer actually had a legal/valid reason for asking for ID in the first place. However, the strictly written word in the statute makes no such distinction (duh, right?) and this COULD possibly end up in an expensive legal battle to resolve one way or the other. With respect to which way to go, Al Capone in The Untouchables said "This is a time for what? Individual achievement." Make your choice as you judge fit.
NC law is ALSO "must inform". However, the statute verbiage is not quite so clear. "...shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer."
What, exactly, constitutes "when approached or addressed by the officer"? Strictly speaking, the officer in your scenario could meet this requirement by simply asking you "How are you doing, sir?". Possibly even by the simple act of approaching the vehicle itself. There is no clearly defined line here.
So again...make your choice as you judge fit.
I have a millisecond of alarm/alert when I'm told (although in fairness I don't do many vehicle stops at all anymore) but then logic kicks in and I remember that I carried a gun before I was in LE and will after I'm out of LE, and as stated, anybody who jumps through the hoops of getting the CHP is not planning on any criminal activity for the most part, and I'm okay with it. In some cases (if I felt the "mood" of the moment allowed it) I've said stuff to lighten the atmosphere like "Good-everyone should be!" or even ask what they're carrying if it's not a tense moment. I told a guy once that told me he had a Taurus 9mm "Well...maybe you can trade up soon and do better".
CHP holders are almost never an issue for us, but maybe it's our outlook in the South (?) I can't recall ever arresting or charging a CHP holder for a gun related issue...the few I know of in my area were all involving alcohol consumption while carrying.
This is something important, obviously. I'm pretty sure that most people here have given serious thought as to exactly how to inform a LEO and generally have the same formula, which would be some variation of:
"I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon and I do have a weapon on me." (I like to put "permit" first and use verbiage that avoids "gun" or "firearm".)
Obviously, being calm and open goes a long way, as well.
In your experience, what best puts you at ease about the way a person informs you?
No. Because the simple fact that you have a CCW does not mean you are actually carrying at that time.
However, if the vehicle is searched under some other "valid" pretense and your firearm is found during that, then you may have problems.
The plain fact of the matter is that anybody, including a cop, can literally do whatever they want. The question is whether they can get away with also doing something illegal if called to the carpet about it.
If you have a CCW and have not informed, the LEO that you have a weapon in the vehicle, that alone is NOT sufficient legal justification to declare a search based on "safety".
The simple fact is that ANYBODY can carry just about ANY weapon in a vehicle with or without a CCW. Is the officer going to search ALL vehicles, then? No. This would not hold up.
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Then the officer is ALSO honor bound to get it right, each and every time.
I do not have a "CCW" OR a "CHP". I have a "CWP".
If the LEO cannot be bothered to get it right, then he should have no business pulling me over in the first place, right?
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Concealed Carry Trivia:
I was born and raised in Indiana. I left for the Navy in the mid-80s and eventually ended up a SC resident lo these many years since. But I still have family and friends there and thus travel to and from Indiana on occasion.
Indiana does have reciprocity with SC (every state, actually). BUT...they have a quirk in the verbiage of their laws about it.
Indiana is not a must inform state. SC, however, is.
Indiana does not have the force of law behind no guns signs. SC does, under specific rules.
Indiana laws about concealed carry in hospitals is not the same as for SC, which is outright prohibited.
So, in many ways Indiana laws on concealed carry are less restrictive than for SC. HOWEVER...Indiana by statute says that I am ALSO subject to the restrictions of my out of state (SC) concealed carry permit.
In the context of must inform, this means that I'm ALSO obligated to inform LEO under the same conditions applicable to SC, even though Indiana says you only have to inform an officer when the LEO specifically asks you.
If businesses are posted no guns that meet SC requirements, then they DO apply to me.
I was born and raised in Indiana. I left for the Navy in the mid-80s and eventually ended up a SC resident lo these many years since. But I still have family and friends there and thus travel to and from Indiana on occasion.
Indiana does have reciprocity with SC (every state, actually). BUT...they have a quirk in the verbiage of their laws about it.
Indiana is not a must inform state. SC, however, is.
Indiana does not have the force of law behind no guns signs. SC does, under specific rules.
Indiana laws about concealed carry in hospitals is not the same as for SC, which is outright prohibited.
So, in many ways Indiana laws on concealed carry are less restrictive than for SC. HOWEVER...Indiana by statute says that I am ALSO subject to the restrictions of my out of state (SC) concealed carry permit.
In the context of must inform, this means that I'm ALSO obligated to inform LEO under the same conditions applicable to SC, even though Indiana says you only have to inform an officer when the LEO specifically asks you.
If businesses are posted no guns that meet SC requirements, then they DO apply to me.
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Very interesting. While I have not read every state’s laws on the subject. Indiana’s law is way overly complicated. But like I tell people all the time. Just because you have a permit in your state and are familiar with the laws in your state. Every time you leave your state check the laws in each state you will be staying and passing through.