Conceal carrying at 18 nc
- Thread starter Alex
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considering that the people on this board are supposed to be on your side, I would definitely make sure I had excellent contemporaneous notes including dates and time or saved an emails from the lieutenant governor and the attorney general…
I can hardly imagine what an anti-gun person would say…
I guess it does make some sense. we wouldn’t have so many fun bill of sale arguments if there weren’t so many people interested in trying not to break laws that don’t exist
I can hardly imagine what an anti-gun person would say…
I guess it does make some sense. we wouldn’t have so many fun bill of sale arguments if there weren’t so many people interested in trying not to break laws that don’t exist
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GOOD FOR YOU!
A right unexercised because "they might not recognize it" may as well not be a right.
Again, good for you.
A right unexercised because "they might not recognize it" may as well not be a right.
Again, good for you.
you must either be doing something very right or very wrong to get this guy to write a response that short!!!
well done
Below are (a) criteria for and (b) disqualifications for Sheriffs issuing a CHP in NC. Who believes a resident of NC is ok to have a concealed carry license issued by NH, without owning property, working in, or other evidences of minimum contacts within NH, without having to answer these questions which do not appear on the NH non-resident carry application? So we would all agree an illegal alien, disqualified for NC permit under (a)(1) below would be perfectly legal carrying concealed in NC with a NH non-resident permit? I'll wait for a show of hands. Or quick, get your NH permit after being arrested and charged, but out on bail, for a charge of domestic violence. Every US Citizen is innocent until proven guilty, right?
(a)(1) The applicant is a citizen of the United States or has been lawfully admitted for permanent residence as defined in 8 U.S.C. § 1101(a)(20), and has been a resident of the State 30 days or longer immediately preceding the filing of the application.
(b)(4) Is a fugitive from justice.
(7) Is or has been discharged from the Armed Forces of the United States under conditions other than honorable.
(10) Is free on bond or personal recognizance pending trial, appeal, or sentencing for a crime which would disqualify him from obtaining a concealed handgun permit.
(11) Has been convicted of an impaired driving offense under G.S. 20-138.1, 20-138.2, or 20-138.3 within three years prior to the date on which the application is submitted.
For reference, here are the qualification questions on the NH non-resident application:
f you answer “Yes” to any of the following questions, you must provide complete details on the reverse side of this form.
Have you ever had a permit or license to carry denied in this or any other state? Yes No
Have you ever been convicted of a felony, in this or any other state, which has not been annulled? Yes No
Are you an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance? Yes No
Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective by a court or committed by a court to any mental institution? Yes No
Have you ever been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence? Yes No
(a)(1) The applicant is a citizen of the United States or has been lawfully admitted for permanent residence as defined in 8 U.S.C. § 1101(a)(20), and has been a resident of the State 30 days or longer immediately preceding the filing of the application.
(b)(4) Is a fugitive from justice.
(7) Is or has been discharged from the Armed Forces of the United States under conditions other than honorable.
(10) Is free on bond or personal recognizance pending trial, appeal, or sentencing for a crime which would disqualify him from obtaining a concealed handgun permit.
(11) Has been convicted of an impaired driving offense under G.S. 20-138.1, 20-138.2, or 20-138.3 within three years prior to the date on which the application is submitted.
For reference, here are the qualification questions on the NH non-resident application:
f you answer “Yes” to any of the following questions, you must provide complete details on the reverse side of this form.
Have you ever had a permit or license to carry denied in this or any other state? Yes No
Have you ever been convicted of a felony, in this or any other state, which has not been annulled? Yes No
Are you an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance? Yes No
Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective by a court or committed by a court to any mental institution? Yes No
Have you ever been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence? Yes No
I do. this is DEFINITELY legal.
IF they qualify for the NH permit then yes they are legal.
The statute couldn’t be any more clearly written that NC honors ALL valid permits.
why don’t people like or believe this?
I know. I can't wrap my mind around why gun owners, of all people, want the laws to be stricter than they actually are, to the point where they're willing to make up wholly imaginary laws and then argue like they exist...
Once again, this is a conflation of two different issues. The requirements to be issued a permit by NC are not the same thing as the requirements to carry concealed. The existence of differences among the different states, in terms of requirements to obtain a permit, has nothing to do with whether or not an NH permit is recognized by NC. This has been explained already, complete with citations. If you have any legal code to cite that contradicts this statement, please provide it.
It seems that what you said is basically, "well New Hampshire has less onerous requirements for their NH permit than North Carolina does for an NC permit, so there's no way North Carolina would recognize a New Hampshire permit!" You are ignoring the fact that the legislature and governor literally passed a law, currently in effect, which explicitly says that all valid permits issued by another state are valid in NC. I'm not sure what else can be done to convince you that you are incorrect.
If I recall correctly, other states, like Tennessee, have language in their carry law that specifically sets a minimum age of 21 for carry even despite reciprocity (and despite the new permitless carry system there). Tennessee also had a specific provision stating that TN residents could not use a permit issued by another state. NC has neither of those provisions, which is why an 18-year-old NC resident can carry using a valid, unexpired nonresident NH permit.
I, for one, am glad the NC legislators made the reciprocity language as inclusive as possible in this way, and I'm also grateful to NH for continuing to export freedom to oppressive states like ours, having already achieved constitutional carry for their own residents.
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You copy pasted this text from a blog, not the NC legal code.
Link to the actual statute: https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-415.24.pdf
What the website you're reading probably means to say is that concealed carriers holding permits from other states gain no special privileges or exemptions when carrying, compared to holders of NC permits. That is, you still have duty to inform, have to abide by legally enforceable "no firearms" signs, etc. But I couldn't tell you for sure that's what your pasted text means, since it is just some guy on the internet who wrote that.
I for one don't believe the provisions under (c) below are clearly written. Somebody who believes this is legal and clearly written please admit you are ok with illegal aliens living in NC, and those described in (b) (4) (7) (10) & (11) in the NC application being able to obtain a NH non-resident permit and carry concealed "legally" in NC.
This is not about 2A, constitutional carry or any of that. It's about legally carrying in NC.
§ 14-415.24. Reciprocity; out-of-state handgun permits.
(a) A valid concealed handgun permit or license issued by another state is valid in North Carolina.
(b) Repealed by Session Laws 2011-268, s. 22(a), effective December 1, 2011.
(c) Every 12 months after the effective date of this subsection, the Department of Justice shall make written inquiry of the concealed handgun permitting authorities in each other state as to: (i) whether a North Carolina resident may carry a concealed handgun in their state based upon having a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit and (ii) whether a North Carolina resident may apply for a concealed handgun permit in that state based upon having a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit. The Department of Justice shall attempt to secure from each state permission for North Carolina residents who hold a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit to carry a concealed handgun in that state, either on the basis of the North Carolina permit or on the basis that the North Carolina permit is sufficient to permit the issuance of a similar license or permit by the other state. (2003-199, s. 1; 2011-268, s. 22(a).
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it seems clearly written to me. that section is about NC inquiring about NC residents being permitted to carry in other states and whether or not an NC resident can get a permit in their state based on having an NC permit. doesn’t have anything to do with NC honoring out of state permits.
if NH grants a foreign national a permit, i’m good with them carrying with it in NC. If applicant is not a US citizen they must provide their resident alien number. so it seems they won’t give a permit to an illegal alien anyway.
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I think you have cut to the crux of the issue. I think this is one of those cases where the exact words of the statute may not mesh with the intent of at least some that would try to interpret that statute. I think the intent and as you put it was that an NC resident would obtain an NC permit, subject to it’s restrictions, but the wording of the statute doesn’t quantify this. Instead it says any other state‘s valid permit shall be recognized.
I am not a lawyer, I’m not an employee of the legal system, but I think this is one of those cases where the OP is technically correct, but as others have said, the system is a bottomless money pit filled with people who disagree and will try to incarcerate you or worse for their beliefs. Now, I also think that’s complete BS and a key example of why “justice” reform is needed and how handing “justice” to the state and abdicating it from being a civic duty was wrong, but it doesn’t change the reality of the situation for the OP.
I do think he’s got the right idea about open carry in a vehicle as this is where 95+% of his troubles would lie. In that other 5%, if he really is justified n having and using a firearm, the reciprocity of his legality will be a very distant issue, but also one that is highly unlikely. It also sounds like He‘s learned the rule of stupids.
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Nobody is arguing that possession of a nonresident New Hampshire permit somehow "supercedes" NC laws. It is simply a fact that the NH permit is valid in NC under existing law.
Some states only recognize a license if a person is 21 or over. NC is not one of those states. If you disagree on this fact, please cite the relevant NC law.
Now you are completely off track. Section C is talking about North Carolina attempting to ensure that other states recognize the NC permit and attempting to ensure that other states grant nonresident permits to NC residents based on those NC residents already possessing an NC permit (Eg. making sure Bob the NC permit-holder from NC can go to PA and either use his existing NC permit or get a PA permit to legally carry in PA). That provision, designed to help NC CHP holders carry in other states, has absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about.
I'm not okay with illegal aliens being here, but their crime is being in the country illegally, not carrying a firearm under a valid NH permit.
I'm just very concerned with the prevalence of the attitude, among gun forum members, that something very much NOT illegal, by the text of the statute, should be treated as illegal because either (A) some cop will be too dumb to understand or (B) you think it's a loophole that wasn't intended. Neither of those are good reasons to tell an 18 or 20 year-old that they shouldn't use the only NC-legal method to exercise their Second Amendment rights.
Why do people not want to take this obvious win? Has it not occurred to anyone that the reciprocity language may have been worded this way deliberately to sneak it past the antigun legislators, or the fudd legislators who secretly want "reasonable measures" for controlling the right of North Carolinians to carry? At the end of the day, intent doesn't matter when the law itself is quite clear.
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I didn’t get the impression of anyone saying it should be treated as illegal. What I did read is that the risk of running into a jackwagon that thinks it’s illegal could wind up costing a serious butt-ton of money because you could wind up with a Sorors persecutor that wants to make a Rittenhouse style example of you and a judge like the ones who’ve said ‘I don’t care what the law says, I don’t like guns and I’m a tyrant so I’ll do what I want”. To which he acknowledged this and has decided to go on about his business.
To me, this is yet another example of this stupid idea called a Crime Against the State, which undoubtedly originated in some place like the Soviet Union. If you go back to before about the late 1800s this concept did not exist, nor did we have armed govt. agents going around looking for it. His carrying a gun should not be a crime, period. It should only become a crime if it’s used in a non justifiably defensive way that harms another.
Bingo.
I think it’s a little more accurate to say there was a bit of both. There definitely seem to be some people that are saying it is or should be illegal. and there are some that are saying while it might be legal you might get your ass handed to you by overzealous police and lawyers.
I think this seems like a great solution for two groups of people. People between the ages of 18 to 20 and people over 21 that want to be able to carry concealed legally while they’re waiting one year for some counties in North Carolina to do their jobs.
still beats a never ending COVID discussion 😂
Almost the same number of "made-up regulations" or the I feel this way so it must be so.