Detective sues Sig Sauer after she says her holstered P320 handgun nearly killed her

[Stogies]

So it seems like we can safely say it definetily has at least issues when being dropped while it is a bit murky on going off in a holster. I guess if I owned one I would set it aside.

In the case of the detective I am leaning towards believing her now. Apparently this happened right at the station and after the gun went bang everybody would be looking at her. Would she have had a chance to reach in there and re-holster the gun without anybody seeing it? Or to convince the people seeing her do it to stay quiet? Does not seem very probable.

 

[dmarbell]

In the video below, at the 3:17 mark, the trigger clearly moved back when the hammer strikes. It's easy to see if you slow the playback speed to 0.25 (you should be able to do that in the settings on Youtube). It can also be seen in the GIF created from the video.

 

[fieldgrade]

In the video below, at the 3:17 mark, the trigger clearly moved back when the hammer strikes. It's easy to see if you slow the playback speed to 0.25 (you should be able to do that in the settings on Youtube). It can also be seen in the GIF created from the video.



View attachment 370689

Slide didn’t cycle. Wut’d I miss?

 

[RR]

So it seems like we can safely say it definetily has at least issues when being dropped while it is a bit murky on going off in a holster. I guess if I owned one I would set it aside.

In the case of the detective I am leaning towards believing her now. Apparently this happened right at the station and after the gun went bang everybody would be looking at her. Would she have had a chance to reach in there and re-holster the gun without anybody seeing it? Or to convince the people seeing her do it to stay quiet? Does not seem very probable.

Yup. And in the chaos I doubt she even realized it was her own weapon that fired.

 

[dmarbell]

Slide didn’t cycle. Wut’d I miss?

It's a shell casing with bullet and powder removed, and a live primer.

 

[dmarbell]

I was curious if anyone had ever tried to make a 1911 fire without pulling the trigger. I ran across references to the warnings in the Colt Series 70 Owners Manual.

 

[GymB]

I was curious if anyone had ever tried to make a 1911 fire without pulling the trigger. I ran across references to the warnings in the Colt Series 70 Owners Manual.

View attachment 370700View attachment 370701

Yes, I think 1911tuner did some drop tests. The issue isn’t the trigger it’s the mass of the firing pin and the weight of the firing pin spring.

Firing without dropping or pulling the trigger, no I’ve never heard of such a thing.

 

[Stogies]

Hi...this is Mrs Stogies. I have a few questions for the forum. 1. Is this a department issued weapon? 2. Is the holster department issued? If so is it not the Departments JOB to know if a weapon is under recall or defective? 3. IF this is a department issued firearm WHY didn't she sue the city as opposed to the manufacturer? Is it because of internal audit for the unintentional discharge of a firearm? 4. Does anyone know the law firm that took the case?
Tbh I see this case as the anti gun crowd trying to find another way in to suing gun manufacturers. They hunt down cases like this for setting precedent. Just my opinion.

 

[dmarbell]

As you might be able to tell by now, I've taken particular interest in this topic. An ND is an ND. Who is to say it's the gun's fault?

Gotta' find the Sig 320 video of the gun going off when the officer was getting out of the car.

In this case the gun was somehow manipulated, and didn't go off just sitting in the holster. Maybe it's the holster-maker's fault, not providing a holster that would prevent the trigger being pulled, or in the case of claims about frame flexing and making the gun fire, prevent the frame from flexing?

I just performed a wholly-unscientific test by inserting a 9mm shell casing with no bullet, powder or primer into my P320 chamber, inserting a fully loaded magazine, and banging with my hands and flexing the gun in every direction. The striker never released. To make sure, I pulled the trigger at the end of the test and the striker released. I'm not a very strong man, but I believe I put as much force as could be applied in any normal carry circumstance, such as exiting a car or swinging a purse around.

I doubt the Sigs are as safe from inadvertent discharges because of unintended trigger movement as Glocks and Rugers, which have the trigger safety, or Springfield XDs with the grip safeties, but I am not about to shelve my Sigs. I handle, carry and store them with reasonable care. If I have an ND, I'll own up to it.

If I run off the shoulder of the road in my truck and crash and hurt myself or a passenger, I won't blame Chevy for a poorly designed product that couldn't stay on the road.

 

[Stogies]

As you might be able to tell by now, I've taken particular interest in this topic. An ND is an ND. Who is to say it's the gun's fault?



In this case the gun was somehow manipulated, and didn't go off just sitting in the holster. Maybe it's the holster-maker's fault, not providing a holster that would prevent the trigger being pulled, or in the case of claims about frame flexing and making the gun fire, prevent the frame from flexing?

I just performed a wholly-unscientific test by inserting a 9mm shell casing with no bullet, powder or primer into my P320 chamber, inserting a fully loaded magazine, and banging with my hands and flexing the gun in every direction. The striker never released. To make sure, I pulled the trigger at the end of the test and the striker released. I'm not a very strong man, but I believe I put as much force as could be applied in any normal carry circumstance, such as exiting a car or swinging a purse around.

I doubt the Sigs are as safe from inadvertent discharges because of unintended trigger movement as Glocks and Rugers, which have the trigger safety, or Springfield XDs with the grip safeties, but I am not about to shelve my Sigs. I handle, carry and store them with reasonable care. If I have an ND, I'll own up to it.

If I run off the shoulder of the road in my truck and crash and hurt myself or a passenger, I won't blame Chevy for a poorly designed product that couldn't stay on the road.

I guess that's the whole point of the argument, though. Chewy had an issue with ignition key springs that were weak and would sometimes lead to the key going into the off position while driving. People crashed and some died. In such a case I think you also would consider blaming Chewy. Bottomline is we all are trying to figure out if there was a real defect.

 

[Timfoilhat]

As you might be able to tell by now, I've taken particular interest in this topic. An ND is an ND. Who is to say it's the gun's fault?



In this case the gun was somehow manipulated, and didn't go off just sitting in the holster. Maybe it's the holster-maker's fault, not providing a holster that would prevent the trigger being pulled, or in the case of claims about frame flexing and making the gun fire, prevent the frame from flexing?

I just performed a wholly-unscientific test by inserting a 9mm shell casing with no bullet, powder or primer into my P320 chamber, inserting a fully loaded magazine, and banging with my hands and flexing the gun in every direction. The striker never released. To make sure, I pulled the trigger at the end of the test and the striker released. I'm not a very strong man, but I believe I put as much force as could be applied in any normal carry circumstance, such as exiting a car or swinging a purse around.

I doubt the Sigs are as safe from inadvertent discharges because of unintended trigger movement as Glocks and Rugers, which have the trigger safety, or Springfield XDs with the grip safeties, but I am not about to shelve my Sigs. I handle, carry and store them with reasonable care. If I have an ND, I'll own up to it.

If I run off the shoulder of the road in my truck and crash and hurt myself or a passenger, I won't blame Chevy for a poorly designed product that couldn't stay on the road.

Consider the manufacturing tolerances. There's a minimum spec and maximum spec to every part. A collection of minimum spec parts in a maximum spec FCU frame might have more slop than a max spec set of parts. Your test is reassuring, but a sample of one.
Same is true for the guns that have allegedly fired without a trigger pull.

 

[georgel]

I was curious if anyone had ever tried to make a 1911 fire without pulling the trigger. I ran across references to the warnings in the Colt Series 70 Owners Manual.

View attachment 370700View attachment 370701

Yes. A friend, who has enough money to do such a thing, dropped a Colt Commander muzzle first on to a concrete sidewalk with a primered case from about 3ft. Gun discharged. This was a Series 70 gun. Series 80 added the firing pin block. We all bought Wolff heavy duty firing pin springs after that. This was in the 80's at Bobby Davis's gun shop on South Blvd. in Charlotte.

ETA: I recently found a Wilson titanium firing pin from that time, i had bought for the same issue, but never installed.

 

[Radar]

A gun is a personal decision. I don’t fault@dmarbell for liking his SIG guns anymore than I do for @georgel for being careful with SIG. I think this issue is an issue that needs to be looked into. The detective likely had no choice but to carry a SIG as her Dept issued weapon. I question why it wasn’t on her person but that’s not relevant to the issue. She and SIG both should go to court over this and prove their side of what happened. I agree that it’s far too many times to be a “coincidence “ but I also think something is awash with why it’s happening.