I hadnt realized how bad the gouging had gotten until yesterday

Supply solves the problem yet no new ventures to speak of, this being the second run on shooting goods. Starline grew from the complacency of the brass makers and obviously there is room for more in all phases of ammo usage. Could it be time to take a hard look at our capitalism and the lack of growth by those of prominence. Fool me once your fault but twice?....time for a changing of the producers.
 
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B00ger said:
You do not get to determine what someone needs. If I >need< 500 rolls of toilet paper, that is my business and I donā€™t have any moral or legal obligation to explain to you why. The same as I have zero moral or legal obligation to anyone to explain why I need a particular firearm. Anyone who claims to be able to determine anotherā€™s need is playing the leftist anti-gunners game and they are just too selfish to see it.

My family has 6 people...3 of which are girls. We use a >lot< of toilet paper. So if I found a good deal on TP, especially during a time of possible shortage then buying 500 rolls is not only the prudent thing to do, itā€™s the smart thing to do.

The 2nd doesnā€™t guaranty your armament. It guarantees that the >government< wonā€™t stand in the way of your armament. It says absolutely nothing about the availability of arms and ammo through private enterprise.


Again, someone who didnā€™t see the writing on the wall and listen to people who for decades have been preaching ā€œbuy it cheap and stack it deepā€ crying because they apparently hate the free market and only want it to work when prices go down, not up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I was going to suggest that anyone that says a person doesnā€™t need 500 rolls of toilet paper has never eaten wings at my house. šŸ’©
 
I stopped going to hyatt's years ago. In the town I live in all the gun shops are charging rediculous prices so I just stay away. I made up my mind I'm just not paying Rediculous. If I have to do without, So be it. But, Dunham's Sports is charging near regular prices so that's where I go when they have any. So far I've got enough to do me. When all this crap is over I'm Still going to stay away from the gun shops and give Dunham's all my business for anything firearms and Any other sports related.
 
two fingers said:
If you have 50 rolls of toilet paper, you are prepared. If you have 500 rolls, you are hoarding and part of the problem.

I don't know what the number is for any given caliber of ammo, but there's a number where you flip from prepared to hoarding, and part of the problem.
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lol, this, right here is funny stuff. actually the problem is people think they can just run to the store whenever and grab it. people think they donā€™t need something until they do and then everyone tries to buy it at the same time.

better to have and not need than need and not have.

someone once told me a long time ago, that you buy during the good times to have during the bad times.

wanna know something, even if i had 500 rolls of TP, thatā€™s one less trip to the store.

buy a box or 2 extra of ammo here and there adds up over time and eventually i wouldnā€™t have to rely on store stock to buy that one box of ammo when i go to the range.

hoarding, gouging, racism, white privilege and many other terms are getting to the point people are using them to shake other people.

even if i had X amount of whatever that in your eyes goes from prepared to hoarding, donā€™t blame me for your lack of foresight.

thatā€™s the biggest problem i see every cycle, disaster, or slight blimp that disrupts the slightest ā€œnormalā€ in peopleā€™s lives.

herka derp, things happen, buy extra stuff here and there. waiting to the last minute to buy something, is like you saw the sign that the lane ends in 1 mile and trying to squeeze in at the last moment.

they automatically complain about hoarding or blah blah blah, iā€™m mad because i didnā€™t set a few back (of whatever) here and there over x amount of time and now i can get it like i used to or x price.

whatā€™s the saying?

poor planning on your part doesnā€™t constitute an emergency on mine?

point being is, it on you yo make sure you have enough, so when hard times come you have less to worry about.

plenty other stuff to add but thatā€™s for another time.
 
tws3b2 said:
I stopped going to hyatt's years ago.
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I go to Hyatts and Blackstone when I have newbies/inexperienced folks lookin. Both usually, in normal times, have a massive variety in stock and my newbs get to feel each in their hands. But we never buy fron there.
Thats the only reason I go anymore.
 
backwoodsshooter said:
lol, this, right here is funny stuff. actually the problem is people think they can just run to the store whenever and grab it. people think they donā€™t need something until they do and then everyone tries to buy it at the same time.

better to have and not need than need and not have.

someone once told me a long time ago, that you buy during the good times to have during the bad times.

wanna know something, even if i had 500 rolls of TP, thatā€™s one less trip to the store.

buy a box or 2 extra of ammo here and there adds up over time and eventually i wouldnā€™t have to rely on store stock to buy that one box of ammo when i go to the range.

hoarding, gouging, racism, white privilege and many other terms are getting to the point people are using them to shake other people.

even if i had X amount of whatever that in your eyes goes from prepared to hoarding, donā€™t blame me for your lack of foresight.

thatā€™s the biggest problem i see every cycle, disaster, or slight blimp that disrupts the slightest ā€œnormalā€ in peopleā€™s lives.

herka derp, things happen, buy extra stuff here and there. waiting to the last minute to buy something, is like you saw the sign that the lane ends in 1 mile and trying to squeeze in at the last moment.

they automatically complain about hoarding or blah blah blah, iā€™m mad because i didnā€™t set a few back (of whatever) here and there over x amount of time and now i can get it like i used to or x price.

whatā€™s the saying?

poor planning on your part doesnā€™t constitute an emergency on mine?

point being is, it on you yo make sure you have enough, so when hard times come you have less to worry about.

plenty other stuff to add but thatā€™s for another time.
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I have no problem with people buying what they need or want.
I have all I need. Enough to last me years. But, What I don't do is walk into a store and grab up all on the shelf and sell at rediculous prices. Be it toilet paper, ammo or what ever. I don't try to take advantage of people in hard times. There is no ammo " Shortage". They are making more than ever. If we would just take what we need there would be no problem. Hate, Greed and Envy. Explains it all.
 
backwoodsshooter said:
lol, this, right here is funny stuff. actually the problem is people think they can just run to the store whenever and grab it. people think they donā€™t need something until they do and then everyone tries to buy it at the same time.

better to have and not need than need and not have.

someone once told me a long time ago, that you buy during the good times to have during the bad times.

wanna know something, even if i had 500 rolls of TP, thatā€™s one less trip to the store.

buy a box or 2 extra of ammo here and there adds up over time and eventually i wouldnā€™t have to rely on store stock to buy that one box of ammo when i go to the range.

hoarding, gouging, racism, white privilege and many other terms are getting to the point people are using them to shake other people.

even if i had X amount of whatever that in your eyes goes from prepared to hoarding, donā€™t blame me for your lack of foresight.

thatā€™s the biggest problem i see every cycle, disaster, or slight blimp that disrupts the slightest ā€œnormalā€ in peopleā€™s lives.

herka derp, things happen, buy extra stuff here and there. waiting to the last minute to buy something, is like you saw the sign that the lane ends in 1 mile and trying to squeeze in at the last moment.

they automatically complain about hoarding or blah blah blah, iā€™m mad because i didnā€™t set a few back (of whatever) here and there over x amount of time and now i can get it like i used to or x price.

whatā€™s the saying?

poor planning on your part doesnā€™t constitute an emergency on mine?

point being is, it on you yo make sure you have enough, so when hard times come you have less to worry about.

plenty other stuff to add but thatā€™s for another time.
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I never called anyone a hoarder, and I never use the other terms in your list either. You used the excuse of my post to add 2+2 and come up with 75.

All of my posts on this topic have been about numbers. Nothing else. I have cast moral aspersions on anyway.

So relax.

All I have said is that if there are already production issues, and some people run out and buy tons of a product around which there are production issues, those people have then extended the length of time it will take to catch up production. Thus, they have become "part of the problen". Period.


And that is simply a fact.

I never said it made anyone a bad person. It's simple math and economics.
 
tws3b2 said:
I have no problem with people buying what they need or want.
I have all I need. Enough to last me years. But, What I don't do is walk into a store and grab up all on the shelf and sell at rediculous prices. Be it toilet paper, ammo or what ever. I don't try to take advantage of people in hard times. There is no ammo " Shortage". They are making more than ever. If we would just take what we need there would be no problem. Hate, Greed and Envy. Explains it all.
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oh i agree totally and iā€™ve never been the one to snatch up stuff to resale. never been in the business to screw people over like that nor will i.

but people out there will. that why i always buy a little here and there during the good times to hold over on the bad times. if more people did that then we wouldnā€™t have much of an issue
 
two fingers said:
I never called anyone a hoarder, and I never use the other terms in your list either. You used the excuse of my post to add 2+2 and come up with 75.

All of my posts on this topic have been about numbers. Nothing else. I have cast moral aspersions on anyway.

So relax.

All I have said is that if there are already production issues, and some people run out and buy tons of a product around which there are production issues, those people have then extended the length of time it will take to catch up production. Thus, they have become "part of the problen". Period.


And that is simply a fact.

I never said it made anyone a bad person. It's simple math and economics.
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i know tone can be lost over the interwebz, that post does come off kinda douchey and probably this one does as well, but itā€™s not meant that way.

just saying that what you call hoarding (which you did if one person has x amount which in your eyes is more than one might need, whoā€™s to say one doesnā€™t need x amount that you consider hoarding) might be hoarding in your or other peoples eyes that donā€™t have foresight to have what they need on hand.

yet the people that do have this stuff is just having plenty to hold them over to get through the bad time.

it simple, buy extra of what you need during the good times.

and again, better to have and not need than need and not have.

no one is forcing anyone to buy anything
but, eh what do i know, iā€™ll just sit back and continue watching the show lol
 
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Supply is not fixed. High prices are signals that more product is needed and more effort is needed from manufacturers to fulfil that demand.

The .gov restricts the everyday Joe's ability to (legally) take advantage of the higher market prices by requiring an FFL to manufacture ammunition. The next best thing is to sell your time waiting in line or watching online to resell for higher prices.
 
backwoodsshooter said:
i know tone can be lost over the interwebz, that post does come off kinda douchey and probably this one does as well, but itā€™s not meant that way.

just saying that what you call hoarding (which you did if one person has x amount which in your eyes is more than one might need, whoā€™s to say one doesnā€™t need x amount that you consider hoarding) might be hoarding in your or other peoples eyes that donā€™t have foresight to have what they need on hand.

yet the people that do have this stuff is just having plenty to hold them over to get through the bad time.

it simple, buy extra of what you need during the good times.

and again, better to have and not need than need and not have.

no one is forcing anyone to buy anything
but, eh what do i know, iā€™ll just sit back and continue watching the show lol
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I never suggested that anyone who buys a ton of bullets is immoral. I literally only said that if supply is limited, and there are production issues, those who buy a ton of ammo will extend the period of time it takes for production to catch up. Mathematically and economically that is just simply true.

Buy all the ammo you want. Make yourself an ammo sofa. Fill your swimming pool with ammo. ENJOY your ammo.

You don't need my blessing or permission to buy whatever you like.
 
SCshooter57 said:
FIFY.

I think we get your other point. Don't necessarily agree with it but get it none the less.
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When did I suggest that?

Also, you may "get my point". But, apparently, others don't. If they did, they wouldn't be so bent out of shape.

Nothing I said should cause anyone to get defensive. I never told anyone what to do. And I never said anything they ARE doing is "wrong".
 
SCshooter57 said:
šŸ¤£ .... post 63. post 69.
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Reviewing said posts does not reinforce your statement.

two fingers said:
Nothing I said should cause anyone to get defensive. I never told anyone what to do. And I never said anything they ARE doing is "wrong".
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That won't stop them from being offended by it. It's the Cathy Newman effect, it doesn't matter what is actually said, you are free to arrive at whatever conclusions will support your presumptive counter argument.
 
two fingers said:
When did I suggest that?

Also, you may "get my point". But, apparently, others don't. If they did, they wouldn't be so bent out of shape.

Nothing I said should cause anyone to get defensive. I never told anyone what to do. And I never said anything they ARE doing is "wrong".
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Interestingly, nothing others have said should cause you to get defensive.
 
I objectively get both side of the gouging argument, but I think it more illuminates how divided and conquered we are by those in control of supply.
Did the price of production to the supplier go up, or did just demand go up?
Doubt any suppliers are wondering if Wal-Mart is gonna restock enough to get past the "insider buyers" to leave a few boxes for them to plink with the kids on the 4th...
I whole heartedly support the American ideals of capitalism, but at what point do we stand together? Anybody ever watch Fight Club?
 
REELDOC said:
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In an asset-based monetary system this argument is 100% valid. However since either 1971, 1933, or 1913 depending upon how doctrinaire one wishes to be, the US has been operating under a system where currency is an instrument of debt. As such, currency enters the economy through moneycenter banks, then corporations, then (if we're lucky) individuals. Such a system exacerbates wealth inequality and therefore all those banker bros at BoA and WFC are more than willing and able to pay $3.00/round for 300BLK Subsonic Frangible.
 
wired said:
Is your right to eat artichokes guaranteed in the constitution? This is equivalent to generators selling for $3000 after a storm. There are laws in place to stop that.
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Generators are $3000 after a storm because the finite number of generators available at $700 prior to the storm sold out, and having a retailer rather than a distributor bringing additional generators from hundreds of miles away into a hurricane as most sensible people are evacuating means that the cost and risk of delivery increases.
 
cheld said:
Generators are $3000 after a storm because the finite number of generators available at $700 prior to the storm sold out, and having a retailer rather than a distributor bringing additional generators from hundreds of miles away into a hurricane as most sensible people are evacuating means that the cost and risk of delivery increases.
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Thats one theory. The other being that demand far outstrips supply and retailers are able to charge a higher price because the market will support it. If you have 50 people needing generators and there are 10 generators those who can afford to pay more WILL pay more.
 
wired said:
Thats one theory. The other being that demand far outstrips supply and retailers are able to charge a higher price because the market will support it. If you have 50 people needing generators and there are 10 generators those who can afford to pay more WILL pay more.
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That's quite correct. If you look at my post "one up" from the one you replied to I acknowledge that households of means will always have an advantage when it comes to access to certain commodities, especially in crises. This quandary is more difficult to deal with when a household only "needs" ONE of a certain item (generator) as rationing on the part of the retailer is rather ineffective. Retailer rationing is a more effective technique for insuring equitable distribution of gasoline, bottled water, bread, etc. I'd much rather an Exxon station impose a 10 gallon limit than either allow the first customer to fill up his Hummer plus a few 5 gallon cans, OR charge $8 a gallon.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the big box (Lowe's/Home Depot) policy is to NOT "price gouge" on generators but to try to anticipate excess demand and meet it, within logistical practicalities. Once L/HD runs out, the market is now dependent on suppliers needing to travel greater distances, against safety guidelines. If some independent dealer in Arkansas wants to drive his box truck with 80 gensets down to Fort Myers while everyone else is in GTFO mode, that dude deserves a serious premium for his product.
 
In a world where most people care about nothing but themselves, do you leave a box or two for the next guy or do you just buy it all because if you donā€™t the next guy will.
Wouldnā€™t it be great if the man that had 10,000 rounds eased up a bit in his buying so the guy with 20 rounds had an opportunity to buy another 20.
Itā€™s not how it works anymore.
The man with the most money and opportunities wins.

It becomes a game to most people, look at my score they will say, they donā€™t really ā€œneedā€ it but they found it and you didnā€™t.


Trust me, Iā€™m all about preparation. I have 5 freezers. I like to eat. Now they may be filled with venison and not ā€œsteaksā€ but they are full.

I understand both sides of the argument. Could the shortage be shortened in duration by some self control, absolutely. In this day and age will there be any self control or hey I really donā€™t need this extra, Iā€™ll let somebody else have some. It may happen occasionally but not enough to make a difference.
 
Tailhunter said:
In a world where most people care about nothing but themselves, do you leave a box or two for the next guy or do you just buy it all because if you donā€™t the next guy will.
Wouldnā€™t it be great if the man that had 10,000 rounds eased up a bit in his buying so the guy with 20 rounds had an opportunity to buy another 20.
Itā€™s not how it works anymore.
The man with the most money and opportunities wins.

It becomes a game to most people, look at my score they will say, they donā€™t really ā€œneedā€ it but they found it and you didnā€™t.


Trust me, Iā€™m all about preparation. I have 5 freezers. I like to eat. Now they may be filled with venison and not ā€œsteaksā€ but they are full.

I understand both sides of the argument. Could the shortage be shortened in duration by some self control, absolutely. In this day and age will there be any self control or hey I really donā€™t need this extra, Iā€™ll let somebody else have some. It may happen occasionally but not enough to make a difference.
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I have plenty of some ammo and maybe not as much as I would like of other ammo. For years I have bought ammo a little at a time whenever I found a deal. Always be buying is my motto. Some may call me a hoarder, but when friends or neighbors go the the club they shoot my ammo usually. So I sleep well at night.

I bought a decent amount of ammo last spring off my gut instinct. Not very much in the last year Donā€™t need much and the stuff Iā€™d like more of gets rested while I shoot other calibers. Iā€™ve got little sympathy for those with zero ammo, and no hatred for those with a huge stash. Some just planned better or bought less or\ther stuff. We all have choices with our $.
 
Tailhunter said:
In a world where most people care about nothing but themselves, do you leave a box or two for the next guy or do you just buy it all because if you donā€™t the next guy will.
Wouldnā€™t it be great if the man that had 10,000 rounds eased up a bit in his buying so the guy with 20 rounds had an opportunity to buy another 20.
Itā€™s not how it works anymore.
The man with the most money and opportunities wins.

It becomes a game to most people, look at my score they will say, they donā€™t really ā€œneedā€ it but they found it and you didnā€™t.


Trust me, Iā€™m all about preparation. I have 5 freezers. I like to eat. Now they may be filled with venison and not ā€œsteaksā€ but they are full.

I understand both sides of the argument. Could the shortage be shortened in duration by some self control, absolutely. In this day and age will there be any self control or hey I really donā€™t need this extra, Iā€™ll let somebody else have some. It may happen occasionally but not enough to make a difference.
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But the reality of it is that the man who has 20 rounds is out there buying as much as he can get his hands on, just like the man who has 10,000 rounds.

If you can say anything about people buying ammunition like this, it's those who have guns and have an active interest in them who are doing this. That's what they have in common. Though the exact reasons why each person is buying may vary...because they're fueled by the market "panic" and just gotta have all they can get, whether they're buying to flip it, or anything in between.

And even so, it's not everybody with guns and an active interest in them who are doing this. I certainly have guns and an active interest in them, but because my priorities are different I'm not out there trying to buy ammunition in these times. The time before that I did happened to coincide with a period in which my priorities were different, because my wife and I had planned on getting the kids to the range with "real" guns when the ammo crunch hit.

During that period, I didn't gnash my teeth and wail...I just made the circuit to several stores a couple times a week until I eventually had a few hundred rounds to support the .22 rifles. (I already had plenty of every other caliber and gauge I needed.)

Human behavioral patterns vary all over the place, and as a group some things are reliably predictable. A run on the market under various political, economic, and ecological reasons is entirely predictable human behavior. And while "bad" in some ways, it's "good" in others. Certainly good for manufacturers who are now selling out as fast as they can make it, as one example.
 
Too long didnā€™t read.

I have ammo and will continue to buy ammo when it makes sense to me, especially since I donā€™t need any. AND, I wonā€™t sell it either. If you are family of friends I would prefer to give it away than sell for what I paid or... for goodness sake price gouge.
 
Gray said:
Too long didnā€™t read.

I have ammo and will continue to buy ammo when it makes sense to me, especially since I donā€™t need any. AND, I wonā€™t sell it either. If you are family of friends I would prefer to give it away than sell for what I paid or... for goodness sake price gouge.
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Bro,
You know we have always been friends, in fact I consider you family...
 
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