PetSmart Dog attack

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by CCW007, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. CCW007

    CCW007 Member

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    The article below got me to thinking. What would you do if I was the owner of the beagle being attacked in a public place. My dogs are part of my family and I think I would raise to whatever level was needed to defend them.

    https://myfox8.com/2018/07/06/dog-fight-at-petsmart-leaves-beagle-dead/

    I have experienced something like this. 15 years or so ago right before I got my carry permit I had the neighbors pit get into my fenced back yard when I had 2 Great Danes. He had my male down by the throat and I was unarmed with no time to get my gun. I grabbed a 4' 2x4 and went in the back yard and he let go of my male. My dogs got behind me and we got into a face off with this pit. It charged and I still say if I would have been armed there is no doubt I would have shot that dog. I thought I was about to get bit. My female Dane jumped in and took the attack and possibly saved my life. I took that 2x4 and started beating the crap out of that pit. He took off running from us so we started chasing him around the yard not allowing him to stand his ground again. I was yell for my wife to get the neighbor come get his dog before I kill it. He was freaking afraid of it when he got there. He got rid of the dog about 3 weeks later when it turned on him.
    I had to put the Female Dane down the same year Marley and Me came out. I had to leave that movie in tears it was way to soon. I still think about her almost every day and what she did that day. I still get a bit emotional when I talk about her.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  2. np307

    np307 Happy to be here. Supporting Member

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    What's to say the dog won't turn on me too? Choot 'em Elizabeth. I was in fear for my life or great bodily harm.
     
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  3. Pink_Vapor

    Pink_Vapor Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    "Marley and Me came out"???
     
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  4. Catfish

    Catfish RIP 1791-2018 Charter Member Supporting Member

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    I would absolutely defend them, BUT... Dogfights happen so fast it's unlikely that in this situation you could react quickly enough to save your dog. And shooting the pit after the dogfight is over would likely result in a felony charge.

    Good SA and keeping your distance is the best defense here.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  5. Catfish

    Catfish RIP 1791-2018 Charter Member Supporting Member

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  6. chiefjason

    chiefjason Vendor and Leather Hack Charter Member Vendor

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    Kind of depends. My dog is a spaz so I'm always on guard around other dogs. This is my dog's world and he does not like other dogs in it. So if my dog starts it and gets killed, as much as I like my dog, I'm less inclined to off the other dog. If my dog gets attacked, and I think it's going to kill him, all bets are off. Generally, I can crank up my command voice and my dog knows he's in trouble and backs down. But dog have a mind of their own and can be a bit unpredictable sometimes. Maybe the pit just didn't like his new haircut and was pissed. :cool:
     
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  7. noway2

    noway2 Senior Member Charter Life Member

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    Keep your dog on a very short leash in situations like that, then the other dog is attacking you via proximity.
     
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  8. Pink_Vapor

    Pink_Vapor Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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  9. MochaJoe

    MochaJoe Custom Title Supporting Member

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    We learned in classes that we can't defend our pets from humans with lethal force.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
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  10. np307

    np307 Happy to be here. Supporting Member

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    Post the statute. CHP classes are honestly a bad final source for knowing the law.
     
  11. MochaJoe

    MochaJoe Custom Title Supporting Member

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    Hey, man, I'm just making a statement. Definitely not talking to anyone like I know everything.
     
  12. CCW007

    CCW007 Member

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    Correct you could not use lethal force against a person but you can when your pet is being attacked by another animal. It is on the books with some livestock laws I read a while back.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  13. np307

    np307 Happy to be here. Supporting Member

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    I understand. Not attacking you, I'm just saying that "what I heard in class" isn't the law. Most of the incorrect information regarding firearms laws I hear from people start with either "I learned this in my concealed carry class" or "a police officer told me". Relying on those two things is not a good plan.
     
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  14. MochaJoe

    MochaJoe Custom Title Supporting Member

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    Right. That's how I understood the rule. I should amend my post to read "We learned in classes that we can't defend our pets from humans with lethal force."

    I've been through various classes and practices, read the rules front to back and, I feel confident that I'm clear on when I can or should discharge a firearm.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  15. Bailey Boat

    Bailey Boat Senior Member Charter Member Benefactor Supporting Member

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    2 summers ago I had issues with the neighbors unrestrained dogs coming into my yard and jumping on Lucy one afternoon. I broke the dogs ribs with my foot and they got all pissy and called the cops. The cops politely told them that I had a right to protect my property with whatever force I deemed required up to and including shooting it. At that point (in front of the cop) I told them if the dog came into my yard again and jumped on Lucy that I'd shoot it.
    The cop didn't bat an eye and just stood there for a minute and told them they should make sure their dogs were restrained at all times to prevent another incident.The neighbor later threatened me about shooting his dogs and I reminded him of what I had said. He took the hint and put the dogs in a chain link enclosure and we haven't had any repeats.
    In the case of Pet Smart, the pit and I would have gone round and round and one of us wouldn't have survived the encounter.

    Your instructor was/is wrong......
     
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  16. MochaJoe

    MochaJoe Custom Title Supporting Member

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    I'm not above being wrong, I enjoy learning things. After reading and listening and researching, it seems clear that animals aren't human family or property and cannot be defended from humans with lethal force. If a human is punching my dog in the head, I would try everything I could before drawing a firearm. I hope we're not arguing here.
     
  17. Cowboy

    Cowboy Glances can deceive

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    These are great threads! Dogs are not on the same level as humans. Don't get me wrong they are great and probably better than a lot of humans.
     
  18. ChickenHawk

    ChickenHawk Carpe natem Charter Member Benefactor Supporting Member

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    The question for me is that if I intervene with non-lethal force when someone is attacking my pet and the person then begins to attack me, have I become the aggressor in a separate confrontation or am a victim? That is what I want to know according to the law.
     
  19. MochaJoe

    MochaJoe Custom Title Supporting Member

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    Too many variables. I'll just stay in the house. This link seems insightful. Just a quick Google search. Just a quick read, not saying it's end all be all.
     
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  20. Jerzsubbie

    Jerzsubbie Senior Member Charter Member Benefactor

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    My dogs are very well behaved and super sweet, unless you're a delivery man haha. Neighborhood kids often stop by to play with them while they're off leash in my yard, sometimes to the shock of their parents.

    I've already decided, that if one of my dogs was being attacked by another dog, the attacking dog has 2-3 seconds before he gets a contact shot to the base of the neck. This isn't because I'm some animal lover, I'm actually not much of an animal person, but I do love MY dogs. I just don't pan on waiting for the thing to kill my dogs then decide to attack me. Nope, no thanks.
     
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  21. Sneakymedic

    Sneakymedic Super Moderator Staff Member Charter Member Benefactor

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    I totally could see me snatching up some big ass toy kiosk and slamming it down on that pit. Crap slung everywhere. what a Shi% show.
     
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  22. Button Pusher

    Button Pusher Well-Known Member Benefactor

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    Kimber Pepper Blaster II if you don't carry a firearm when out with the dogs.
     
  23. Mightyox04

    Mightyox04 Das Ox

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    There is no question about it. If your dog is in my yard attacking my anything I'll kill it. I might eat it if no one is watching.

    At pet smart, Lowe's or anywhere else I'll kill it if its attacking me and mine.
     
  24. BowWow

    BowWow Happy to be here

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    When we take the pups to the vet or pet store.... Keep them on a very short leash...so they are not in reach of other dogs. It's hard to predict how dogs will behave together. Like someone said above...… things can happen FAST.
     
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  25. np307

    np307 Happy to be here. Supporting Member

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    The original post was about a dog attacking a dog and whether the use of a firearm was warranted. My comments were based on that premise. The law does not preclude you from shooting the offending dog in this scenario.

    Regarding people and your dog, we have to understand what the law actually says. In order for deadly force to be justified, one must be in fear for their life or great bodily harm.

    I cannot think of many ordinary circumstances where someone would only attack my dog and not me while in public. Further, I'm not going to wait around to ask the individual whether they only want to harm my dog or they want to harm me. Thus, the leap to justifying deadly force isn't particularly large.

    Practically, I would first attempt to put myself between my dog and the offending party and flee. Pursuit and continued antagonism would warrant increasing amounts of force.

    Here is the law itself. The North Carolina General Statutes on deadly force outside of the home, workplace, or motor vehicle:

    https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-51.3.pdf

    Statutes that all concealed carriers need to be familiar with are 14-51 14-269 and 14-415
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
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  26. Tailhunter

    Tailhunter Cast No Shadow Charter Member

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    The only thing Petsmart can do is to enforce common sense dog control and ban all pit bulls from the store.


    Be smart, if you have to go to their store, leave your dog at home.
     
  27. Lord of War

    Lord of War Happy to be here

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    If something or someone threatens my dog there will be hell to pay. He is well mannered and would never hurt anyone or anything for the record. Right or wrong that's how it is.
     
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  28. fishgutzy

    fishgutzy Senior Member

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    Both of our dogs have been temperament tested at Dog Days in Greensboro and approved for pack play and boarding.
    But I would NEVER take either one with me into any pet store. I'm not risking my dogs for the phony 'feels good' of shopping. Dogs are not humans. They are not "family". They are pets. Not every dog owner is responsible.
    At Dog Days, I know the dogs are safe because all of the dogs are tested and they have multiple minders in the ares with the dogs at all times.
    Pet Smart doesn't have a Dog Privilege card showing the dog passed a test.
     
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  29. 9outof10mms

    9outof10mms Purveyor of Professional Enginerding Supporting Member

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    This is why it’s stupid to take animals to a store. I don’t give two damns that it’s a pet store. It’s become like a badge of honor or something to walk around with your dumb pet at those stores.
     
  30. BowWow

    BowWow Happy to be here

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    Legal or illegal......im lookin after the pups......just the way tit tiz. I hope i never get in that situation.
     
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  31. NKD

    NKD Senior Member Charter Member Benefactor Kimberless

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    If your dog/pet violently attacks another person, or their children, or their pets: it should be shot or killed. Immediately. If you then get violent or attack someone, then you should be shot or killed too. Just like your dangerous animal.

    If you can’t control your animals, you are an irresponsible owner, and personally responsible for your animal getting shot or killed. And if you can’t control yourself: same.

    Just my opinion!
     
  32. concepthomes1

    concepthomes1 Your Neighbor Staff Member Charter Member Benefactor

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    What is your pup cost you say....$2k?

    And another dog attacked it in the store and the other dogs owner didn’t attempt to restrain their attacking dog? Could the owner of the victim dog have charges taken out for felony property damage?
     
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  33. BlackGun

    BlackGun Active Member Supporting Member

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    I had a dog bite me in the ass and leg as I rode a bike at my aunt’s house in Hickory. It took a chunk out of my butt. My uncle drove to the house and confronted the dog owner. The owner put the dog on a chain. My uncle patched me up and drove me to their house and handed me a baseball bat. When the dog lunged to the end of the chain he said to bust its head. I did. He lived two days. F#%ck irresponsible dog owners. That was when I was about 11 years old. Never felt bad about it and still got a big scar on my ass.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
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  34. Jerzsubbie

    Jerzsubbie Senior Member Charter Member Benefactor

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    Never thought of that but technically speaking, I don’t see why not.

    My wife’s aunt has 2 $7k labradoodles! My dogs were both rescues, about $600 total. But GDHP’s are still about 75c each and will protect them just fine. :D
     
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  35. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Get over it, snowflake. Charter Life Member

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    First of all, dogs are not always predictable around other dogs.

    With small dogs, this isn't generally a problem because if the little sh*t gets out of hand all he ends up doing is making a fool out of himself at the end of his leash. Sometimes at the end of his leash two feet off the ground.

    But a bigger, more massive dog? That's a bigger, more massive problem and requires the owner to be ready to haul back on that leash like the Almighty God of I'm-Going-to-F*ck-Your-World-UP-if-You-Don't-Calm-the-F*ck-Down. And even so, this may not be enough for several reasons.

    Once the dogs tangle?

    There ain't gonna be a "shot-the-f*cker" moment available unless a miracle happens. They're going to be a ball of teeth and fur all over the place.

    Unless a leash remains attached, there will be no pulling the animals apart.

    You'll be lucky to get a break where you can do something before one or both is seriously hurt.

    Unless, of course, both dogs are small dogs. They can only do so much damage when you reach in and throttle the sh*t out of the aggressor.

    If it's your big dog, my opinion is be ready to take the SOB DOWN in full Alpha mode and let him know in no uncertain terms that this stops NOW.

    If it's NOT your big dog, don't try that.

    Alternate option: if you have a dog spray or some kind of OC spray...that will break something like this up in a heartbeat. Hose 'em down and restrain.
     
  36. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Get over it, snowflake. Charter Life Member

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    And a Carbon tax.

    'Cause Global Warming.
     
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  37. fsj80

    fsj80 Member

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    I understand and agree with the premise behind this but PetSmart has a groomers and a vet office in them. The attacker in the story was coming from the groomers (I don’t recall if they say why the beagle was there).
     
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  38. Tailhunter

    Tailhunter Cast No Shadow Charter Member

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    For some reason they are doing this at Lowes Home Improvement stores.
    I’ve seen great danes dragging their owners down the isle. Pits and a bunch of yappy fur balls. For some reason people don’t leash the little ones. I just about punted some “shitzs on you” down the isle when it got tangled up under my feet.
    There is no reason for this other then to stroke the owners misplaced ego.
     
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  39. SPST

    SPST Member

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    $7k for a mutt! PT Barnum was right.
     
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  40. NoNameHaveI

    NoNameHaveI I'm lovin it! Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Bwahahahahahaha! They are gonna need signs and stuff, signs make people extra safe. ;)
     
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