Rant concerning seller's requirements on classified ads

“Trades need to be in my favor” can seem irritating, but often people are trying to sell for a specific reason. They have a particular firearm they want, or a certain amount of cash they need. So a “even trade” doesn’t get them closer to their initial desired outcome.

The rest of the stuff, I just ignore. People can do what they want, they just have to accept the ramifications of those actions.
 
Huh.

Op I respect your right to have your opinion. But it is, in fact- just that. .. and your annoyance is understandable on a few things. I hope you don't mind my chiming in!

My .02 ( for which I will gladly provide a receipt). :)

Idk about the " trades must be in my favor" thing - unless it's a trade + cash deal, and someone needs the cash ( or doesn't have any). I haven't seen that.

But....

- When I sell a firearm privately , whether long gun or pistol, I want assurance of some kind that the person I'm selling or trading to won't one day have it pointed in a direction with nefarious purposes. .. maybe at me. I'm one of my favorite people.
YOU know you're not a bad guy - but how do I know you're not a bad guy as the seller?
People get ripped off all of the time, and there are folks on the internet that believe in the lizard illuminati.

Asking for a CCW , or a permit to purchase at least shows SOME evidence that somewhere along the way somebody decided you weren't a danger to yourself or to others on that particular day.

- A bill of sale protects BOTH parties... I can't imagine why you wouldn't want one?

SCENARIO: Let's say that you buy a firearm privately, and it turns out later that it was reported stolen. You find this out, because it was a nice gun, and you added it to the inventory that you have for your insurance rider. Uh- OH... here come the Po-Po! With a BIll of Sale, you will probably have to return the firearm, and be out what you paid for it. BUT you can prove that it was purchased in good faith, provide the name of where it came from, and probably avoid felony firearms charges.

SCENARIO #2 : You SELL a firearm privately on here or anywhere else. ( maybe you bought it from a commie state and brought down, so its registered, or maybe the guy before you had it registered, or maybe the FFL you bought it from is one of the ones where the ATF " Accidentally" gets a copy of who bought what. Anyway - the joker you sell it to is one of the many, many, MAAANY people who cover their vehicle with pistol and tactical ego stickers, then leave the gun they bought ( from you) in an unlocked car overnight. ( there's a good rant!) . Some 11 year old Meth addict with 7 kids and a stable of 4 hookers steals the gun and caps ol' Ray- Ray at the Stop -n-rob for $113.00 and some bubblicious. Uh- Oh... here come the Po- Po! And your name is the last one on record as the owner of said Ray-Ray killing pistol, unless you have a BOS.

Finally, for ME at least - unless I know you personally, I can use an unwillingness or hesitation to meet at a safe and gun friendly place, or to provide information, as a red flag that there may be concerns.

As an experiment- they next time you have one to sell, be sure to put "No ID or bill of sale required, will meet in random location " in the ad and see whatcha get..

Just sayin... to each his own.
 
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For your reading pleasure:

Article 52A. Sale of Weapons in Certain Counties. § 14-402.
Sale of certain weapons without permit forbidden. (a) It is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation in this State to sell, give away, or transfer, or to purchase or receive, at any place within this State from any other place within or without the State any pistol unless: (i) a license or permit is first obtained under this Article by the purchaser or receiver from the sheriff of the county in which the purchaser or receiver resides; or (ii) a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit is held under Article 54B of this Chapter by the purchaser or receiver who must be a resident of the State at the time of the purchase. It is unlawful for any person or persons to receive from any postmaster, postal clerk, employee in the parcel post department, rural mail carrier, express agent or employee, railroad agent or employee within the State of North Carolina any pistol without having in his or their possession and without exhibiting at the time of the delivery of the same and to the person delivering the same the permit from the sheriff as provided in G.S. 14-403. Any person violating the provisions of this section is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. (b) This section does not apply to an antique firearm or an historic edged weapon. (c) The following definitions apply in this Article: (1) Antique firearm. – Defined in G.S. 14-409.11. (2), (3) Repealed by Session Laws 2011-56, s. 1, effective April 28, 2011. (4) Historic edged weapon. – Defined in G.S. 14-409.12. (5) through (7) Repealed by Session Laws 2011-56, s. 1, effective April 28, 2011. (1919, c. 197, s. 1; C.S., s. 5106; 1923, c. 106; 1947, c. 781; 1959, c. 1073, s. 2; 1971, c. 133, s. 2; 1979, c. 895, ss. 1, 2; 1993, c. 287, s. 1; c. 539, s. 284; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2004-183, s. 1; 2004-203, s. 1; 2009-6, s. 2; 2011-56, s. 1.)
 
Puddlejockey said:
I want assurance of some kind that the person I'm selling or trading to won't one day have it pointed in a direction with nefarious purposes. .. maybe at me. I'm one of my favorite people.
YOU know you're not a bad guy - but how do I know you're not a bad guy as the seller?
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A piece of paper gives you that much assurance? I suppose they can’t lie on that piece of paper.


It’s been a while since I’ve needed to get a pistol permit. How long do they last? 2 yrs? 5 yrs? A CCW is good for 5 yrs. How do you know a guy won’t turn bad in 5 years?
 
Crankbait said:
It’s been a while since I’ve needed to get a pistol permit. How long do they last? 2 yrs? 5 yrs? A CCW is good for 5 yrs. How do you know a guy won’t turn bad in 5 years?
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Five years. And they don’t come collect them if you become “bad”.
 
BigWaylon said:
Five years. And they don’t come collect them if you become “bad”.
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They will call in PPPs if somebody ends up in some legal hot water that would have otherwise precluded them from getting the permits to begin with. Seen it happen.
 
fieldgrade said:
They will call in PPPs if somebody ends up in some legal hot water that would have otherwise precluded them from getting the permits to begin with. Seen it happen.
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Possibly. Can’t imagine it’s a regular occurrence.

Plus, how many claim they already used ‘em?
 
Crankbait said:
A piece of paper gives you that much assurance? I suppose they can’t lie on that piece of paper.


It’s been a while since I’ve needed to get a pistol permit. How long do they last? 2 yrs? 5 yrs? A CCW is good for 5 yrs. How do you know a guy won’t turn bad in 5 years?
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It certainly doesn’t… but to me it’s at least a step in the right direction. It’s in the same vein of a contractors license certainly doesn’t mean you can build a good house, but if you can’t get one there’s probably a reason. :) . Honestly - truly I’m not trying to be argumentative nor hijack the thread, but if someone who disagrees wants to DM me and explain why you wouldn’t want a BOS, or where the harm is in asking for a CCW or permit I’m always willing to learn. It’s quite possible there’s some aspect that I don’t get. But with the mental health, short fuse, and partisan world we live in today, I’m gonna need more than “ I joined the forum and have cash” before I’m comfy arming someone. ..
 
BigWaylon said:
Possibly. Can’t imagine it’s a regular occurrence.

Plus, how many claim they already used ‘em?
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No “possibly” about it it. I’ve seen the letter from an NC sheriffs dept. Been a few years, and thankfully it didn’t have my name on it. Let’s just say they don’t ask nicely.
 
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RedneckFur said:
I won't sell a gun unless the buyer is willing to shake my hand.

And I NEVER wash my hands after the restroom.

Grip ol stinkfingers firmly, or no sale!
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Is that why I smelled mushrooms and shame when I hugged you under the CFF banner that one time.
 
fieldgrade said:
No “possibly” about it it. I’ve seen the letter from an NC sheriffs dept. Been a few years, and thankfully it didn’t have my name on it. Let’s just say they don’t ask nicely.
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Possibly simply meaning they might come for the person, and might not. Not doubting they’ve done it before and will do it again…but I can’t imagine it’s 100% chance.
 
Puddlejockey said:
It certainly doesn’t… but to me it’s at least a step in the right direction. It’s in the same vein of a contractors license certainly doesn’t mean you can build a good house, but if you can’t get one there’s probably a reason. :) . Honestly - truly I’m not trying to be argumentative nor hijack the thread, but if someone who disagrees wants to DM me and explain why you wouldn’t want a BOS, or where the harm is in asking for a CCW or permit I’m always willing to learn. It’s quite possible there’s some aspect that I don’t get. But with the mental health, short fuse, and partisan world we live in today, I’m gonna need more than “ I joined the forum and have cash” before I’m comfy arming someone.
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A CCW or permit is required for handguns and I ask to see either of those, I'm talking about all the extra crap people are wanting.
 
BigWaylon said:
Possibly simply meaning they might come for the person, and might not. Not doubting they’ve done it before and will do it again…but I can’t imagine it’s 100% chance.
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All I’m saying is that if someone has PPPs issued in the past five years, and they get jammed up in the meantime, once those charges hit the system the sheriff will come looking for these PPPs by letter, with deadlines, or demand to know where they went if you don’t have them.
 
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Just so you all know I’m reading this thread while sitting at a bar, trying to enjoy my beer and bbq chicken dip.

I look over and notice a guy across the bar trying to grab his to go box and I swear to god he is a real life T-Rex. Normal size body and midget arms.

I watched in fascination as he struggled to put his back pack on and reach for the box that was on the end of the bar.

I waited with baited breath for the theme song for Jurassic park to come over the speaker but I was disappointed as he walked out looking like a normal person from the back, his arms sticking out just in front of his chin from the front.
 
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Honestly here I kinda count on the way the person has conducted themselves on this forum more than anything. While we do not know many of the members faces we have a good “gut feeling” about the person from their posts … especially if they are active in other topics. It goes a long way in trust … just as much TO ME as a piece of paper from a Sheriff. I sure as hell trust the CFF members more than say ArmsList crazies even w/ a PPP or CHP or such … with except of a few I am not toooooo sure could actually be deemed “clinically insane” half the time 😜.
 
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DaveInCLT said:
I think you may be misinterpreting the phrase “Trades need to be in my favor"

I went and searched for posts with that and my own read of that simply means they only want trades or lesser value than the item they are selling. Basicall they don’t want to end up selling something here with a trade and having to pay additional funds they might not have. That seems a pretty reasonable request to me.

maybe I’m wrong, but that’s how I take the meaning of that phrase as used in the FS threads I read.
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Perhaps then, the interested party could simply PM the OP and ask for clarification as opposed to stewing confused about their meaning.........just a thought.
 
Poseidon69 said:
I have noticed quite a few private sellers with "requirements" that really diminish our right to buy/sell firearms privately. Yes, I realize we all have the choice to not do business with anyone of our choosing--and I immediately disregard the ones posting such nonsense--but some of the demands are completely asinine! Here are a few I'm seeing frequently:

1. "Trades need to be in my favor"
I really don't even know how to articulate my disdain when I see this on an ad, so you're the only one who should have a positive experience? Or, maybe your full-time job is a used car salesman at "Slick's Lemon Rides."

2. "Bill of sale is required"
A bill of sale is not required (in NC anyways) and the attracting feature of private transactions is not having your name/information further accessible by any alphabet agencies in the future.

3. "Transfer must be done at a FFL holder and you must pay the fee"
This totally negates the private sale advantage and why would I pay your full asking price when I can probably buy the same item cheaper directly from the dealer who you're wanting to do the transfer! Yes, there is a risk involved in buying/selling privately but that's where the $$$ savings comes in. If you want to do a FFL transfer on a used firearm then find out what the FFL would pay you for said piece if you sold it to them and start your asking price at 10% over that amount.

4. Requiring a pistol purchase permit or CCW to buy a long gun.
No permit or license is required to buy a long gun.

I realize some may not agree with my ramblings but the great thing about our country is freedom of speech...much like our right to privately buy/sell in our respective states.

For further reading and to educate yourself on (NC) gun laws: https://www.pewpewtactical.com/gun-laws-state/north-carolina-gun-laws/
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So far I have done two deals in here where the seller stated bos was needed. I made an offer and stated that part of my offer is I simply do not under any circumstances ever do a bill of sale. Both guys took the deal. I admit I haven't bought any firearms in over a year, so we may have a new crowd of guys. The transaction with both of them was very pleasant. They can ask. It is their property to sell if and how they see fit. It is my right to make an offer as I see fit. That is the beauty of a free society, or at least what passes for one nowadays! (smile)
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
So far I have done two deals in here where the seller stated bos was needed. I made an offer and stated that part of my offer is I simply do not under any circumstances ever do a bill of sale. Both guys took the deal. I admit I haven't bought any firearms in over a year, so we may have a new crowd of guys. The transaction with both of them was very pleasant. They can ask. It is their property to sell if and how they see fit. It is my right to make an offer as I see fit. That is the beauty of a free society, or at least what passes for one nowadays! (smile)
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I have done the same and its worked out. Actually had a great conversation with a fella (who had posted in his ad that a BOS was required) at meet-up (after a no-BOS was agreed on). We talked a good bit about "whats the big deal?" He asked me why others have issues with the BOS requirement and I shared a perspective. Again, it was a great conversation, he understood the point of view and I, in part his, and we both parted happy and perhaps wiser as he explained his perspective. Not sure if he ever asked for a BOS again, but I appreciated his approach to the request.
 
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Dan0311 said:
Maybe some are former Northerners who have been brought up to fear any type of gun transaction - some of those 'rules' sound like they came from beyond the wire in blue states.
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Hey now! I'm a yank. I can assure you, there is a healthy gun culture in many/most states north of here. The new-england states are an obvious exception.
 
merrill77 said:
Hey now! I'm a yank. I can assure you, there is a healthy gun culture in many/most states north of here. The new-england states are an obvious exception.
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I know - believe me I know!
 
merrill77 said:
Hey now! I'm a yank. I can assure you, there is a healthy gun culture in many/most states north of here. The new-england states are an obvious exception.
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I think it was James Carville who described Pennsylvania as "Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, divided by 500 miles of Alabama" I thought it very witty and apropos.
 
BigWaylon said:
View attachment 511713

I could go create a BOS for everything that’s sitting in my safe. Put anybody’s info on there as a buyer that I wanted to…whether they exist or not.
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Which do you think is a stronger shield in deflecting inquiry into you in the case of nefarious firearm use that traces back to a firearm you once bought from a FFL:
  1. A simple verbal claim you make when questioned
  2. A verbal claim you make when questioned that is substantiated by a documentation trail you possess ... which can then be further-scrutinized for corroboration of your claim using things like GPS location from phone (obtained from your provider via subpoena) on day of supposed sale, time/date-stamped text info (obtained from your provider via subpoena) and/or forum posts (obtained from forum administration via subpoena) setting up the sale, etc.?

Certainly, you're innocent until proven guilty under our justice system as implemented, today (unless future red flag laws come into scope in this state and are applied to you, of course), but the presumption of innocence doesn't help dissuade authorities from making you the primary suspect and then fixating on building a case around proving you guilty. By comparison, a legit BOS that undergoes and withstands additional scrutiny most likely gives the authorities a target other than yourself on which to focus ... and this is precisely the reason some people prefer sales that entail one.


So, to your point, a BOS (by itself) doesn't 'prove' anything. To my point, having a BOS provides more support than a verbal claim ... as well as a starting point for corroboration during an investigation -- one that steers the authorities away from you and hopefully down a path that leads them to the actual perpretator of a nefarious act performed with a firearm.

What you fabricate for things in your safe likely won't have that same effect during an inquiry by the authorities unless you go to extreme lengths to also fabricate corroborating evidence that will go with each of your BOS's. Have fun with that should you elect to do it and remember that doing so, if such is presented during an investigation, could be construed as obstruction of justice given the fabricated BOS's and corroborating evidence ... should it come to light that such things were fabricated. (One in possession of a legit BoS won't have that particular worry, either. :))
 
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All of you who are so concerned with having a paper trail for the what-ifs should probably just get your FFL since records must be kept to satisfy that fun-loving agency who issues said license. As for me, I'll keep abiding by NC laws without creating nonsensical hardships for my fellow patriots.
 
Poseidon69 said:
All of you who are so concerned with having a paper trail for the what-ifs should probably just get your FFL since records must be kept to satisfy that fun-loving agency who issues said license. As for me, I'll keep abiding by NC laws without creating nonsensical hardships for my fellow patriots.
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While I'm not among the people you just addressed, I see their perspective, acknowledge the validity of it, and empathize enough not to crap on them with Karen/Ken-like statements of how I feel they should conduct their business. Some here, however, apparently lack the ability to put themselves in the shoes of others and see things through their eyes or perspectives.

And hey, that's OK, as empathy is not required by NC law. It is, however, usually considered polite and respectful in our society to have and show just a bit of it. Lack of it or willingness to show/use it tends to be what makes Karens/Kens what society at large perceives them to be.
 
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Please delete this thread before the new guys see it!!! Him trying to convince me that I need a BOS to protect myself is the same as me telling him he doesn’t need anothet booster shot.
 
Personally I doubt law enforcement would care too much about a private BOS either way. If they want to charge you with something, they will. And whatever evidence they have will probably look better in front of a judge/jury than your hand-written receipt.

Sellers can have whatever requirements they want, and buyers can accept them or not. If a BOS requirement is unpopular, that seems like a self-correcting problem to me.
 
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