Selling pistol to private party

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Moejoe44

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Hey y'all, I'm new to this forum, thanks for having me! After spending some time reading various posts it's clear this is an amazing and knowledgeable group!

So here is my first of many (unrelated) questions to come.

I'm interested in selling my 90s model Ruger SP101 9mm, to help fund a new over under shotgun. I plan on posting it here but need to understand the legality of selling a handgun to a private party.

If they have a conceal carry or purchase permit, do I need to do anything other than a bill of sale?

Is a purchase permit or conceal carry permit even required to sell a handgun to a private party?

Any insight would be appreciated!
 
Tim said:
FWIW…I’m local to you and would be interested in the SP101. And I don’t give a flying saucer if you’re a democrat.
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Hey Tim, it's in excellent condition and I have a few moon clips to go with it.

Let me know if you wanna check it out sometime. I can send you some pics tonight when I get home.
 
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The requirements are that you not know that they are not a resident of NC (I assume you’re a resident of NC) and that you not know that they are a prohibited person. There is no longer such a thing as a purchase permit in NC, there is no requirement to see a CHP, and there is no requirement for a bill of sale.

I’ll ask to see a DL or CHP to confirm age and residency and then ask if they are a felon or otherwise prohibited, then the deal’s done and I forget everything.
 
GymB said:
The requirements are that you not know that they are not a resident of NC (I assume you’re a resident of NC) and that you not know that they are a prohibited person. There is no longer such a thing as a purchase permit in NC, there is no requirement to see a CHP, and there is no requirement for a bill of sale.

I’ll ask to see a DL or CHP to confirm age and residency and then ask if they are a felon or otherwise prohibited, then the deal’s done and I forget everything.
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Great info, thank you!
 
Moejoe44 said:
Weird, Id think there is a law outlining the process?
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There is the law, which others have graciously informed you about, and then there are general rules of interaction among firearm enthusiasts.

For example, most people here on this forum will take issue at you going above and beyond what is required by law (such as asking for a bill of sale or to conduct the transaction through an FFL). However, as the seller, it is your personal prerogative if you want to do so. The most important thing though, if you intend to place more requirements on the buyer than are required by law, is to clearly explain what those are up front. If you do not, you could be banned from the forum.

The forum rules are there to make sure that buyers and sellers act with integrity and transparency.
 
Moejoe44 said:
Weird, Id think there is a law outlining the process?
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This is debated amongst members hotly and it basically divided into two camps. One is the libertarian wing where not only don’t you need anything but asking for anything means you are a craven sellout to “the man”.
The other wing prefers some CYA in case the pistol you sold ends up with a dead hooker in a cheap motel.
Personally I have been tracked down by a DA on a gun found on a convicted felon so I was glad to have a bill of sale.
 
keepcalmandcarryon said:
This is debated amongst members hotly and it basically divided into two camps. One is the libertarian wing where not only don’t you need anything but asking for anything means you are a craven sellout to “the man”.
The other wing prefers some CYA in case the pistol you sold ends up with a dead hooker in a cheap motel.
Personally I have been tracked down by a DA on a gun found on a convicted felon so I was glad to have a bill of sale.
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Naturally you framed the first contingent in the most jaundiced terms possible. I believe it was clearly stated above that most folks ask to see a NCDL to confirm state of residency.

It isn't about being a "sellout". The issue is that going through an FFL is something that a LOT of people have tried to spring on a buyer AFTER the deal has been agreed upon. It was a previous iteration of the forum, but I had someone spring the FFL transfer requirement on me after everything else had been agreed to. They tried to change the meeting location to an FFL and also tried to make me pay the FFL transfer fee.

So long as everyone is up front about what is required, I'm okay with that. However, if someone requires more than is legally required, they should not be surprised the item is more difficult to sell.
 
keepcalmandcarryon said:
This is debated amongst members hotly and it basically divided into two camps. One is the libertarian wing where not only don’t you need anything but asking for anything means you are a craven sellout to “the man”.
The other wing prefers some CYA in case the pistol you sold ends up with a dead hooker in a cheap motel.
Personally I have been tracked down by a DA on a gun found on a convicted felon so I was glad to have a bill of sale.
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Cheap shot painting the overwhelming majority as extremists.
Maybe you didn’t notice, but he didn’t ask how you feel, he asked about the legal requirements. I know that you love your “brush with whatever” story, but I don’t think you’ve ever responded to my oft-asked question “what would have happened if you didn’t have a bill of sale?” The answer is that things would have been exactly the same.
But anyway, seller can ask for whatever he wants, just needs to be clear about his requirements.
 
Studentofthegun said:
Naturally you framed the first contingent in the most jaundiced terms possible. I believe it was clearly stated above that most folks ask to see a NCDL to confirm state of residency.

It isn't about being a "sellout". The issue is that going through an FFL is something that a LOT of people have tried to spring on a buyer AFTER the deal has been agreed upon. It was a previous iteration of the forum, but I had someone spring the FFL transfer requirement on me after everything else had been agreed to. They tried to change the meeting location to an FFL and also tried to make me pay the FFL transfer fee.

So long as everyone is up front about what is required, I'm okay with that. However, if someone requires more than is legally required, they should not be surprised the item is more difficult to sell.
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Well at least you proved my point on this being a hot topic!
 
keepcalmandcarryon said:
Well at least you proved my point on this being a hot topic!
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It is and it isn't.

The contingent that wants to place additional conditions on a deal is relatively small compared to the rest of the forum membership. Everyone else is on the same page. The small contingent that wants to place those conditions often gets offended because their items usually don't sell very quickly. We've all seen very good deals just sit there simply because the seller required a bill of sale.

There is a perception that a bill of sale provides some sort of protection but in my experience that's not the reality. If it makes you feel better though, go for it. One more time: the seller can choose to place whatever conditions they want on the sale. If they only want to sell it to bearded left handers, so be it. Just be up front about it. If someone wants the item bad enough, they'll jump through the hoops to get it. Grow that beard, I guess.

What we're trying to do here is answer the new guy's question, not try to hash out a topic that has been discussed elsewhere several times.
 
It could be as simple as asking the buyer if they’re legal to take possession of the firearm in question. That puts it all on the buyer to be legal (in-state resident & not a prohibited person), and you’ve not knowingly sold to somebody that can’t buy it.

But most people make it more complicated than that.

Your ad, your rules. Just don’t put “all laws apply” and then attach additional requirements. If you want blood type, first grade report card and model of first car…fine. Just list those without the generic “all laws apply”.
 
I’m very new to all this so be gentle lol

When you buy a handgun, isn’t it registered to you by the serial number?

Then, if you sell send gun to someone and there is an issue, can it come back on you because it’s still registered in your name?

Let the newbie thrashing begin lol
 
johnpaulgolf said:
I’m very new to all this so be gentle lol

When you buy a handgun, isn’t it registered to you by the serial number?

Then, if you sell send gun to someone and there is an issue, can it come back on you because it’s still registered in your name?

Let the newbie thrashing begin lol
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There is no formal gun registration in either of the Carolinas.
 
johnpaulgolf said:
I’m very new to all this so be gentle lol

When you buy a handgun, isn’t it registered to you by the serial number?

Then, if you sell send gun to someone and there is an issue, can it come back on you because it’s still registered in your name?

Let the newbie thrashing begin lol
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We don't have registration per se. If the firearm was tracked down to the FFL that originally sold it, and your name was on the 4473, then they may come to you to determine the whereabouts of the firearm. If you have sold the firearm then you should no longer be involved in the investigation. This happens all the time. So long as you complied with the law when you sold the firearm, you're okay.

As others have stated, we don't have "registration" as it is exists in some states.

As always, any time you are talking to the police, you may want to consider not saying anything and consulting an attorney.
 
johnpaulgolf said:
Ok thanks good to know 👍🏻
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If you buy one from federally licensed gun shop, aka an FFL, alternately referred to as an LGS (local gun store). They are required to have you fill out a form 4473, which basically records the transaction, and they are required to keep that document for 20 years, or turn it over to the atf if they close.

But the gun is not “registered” to you. It just says you bought it.
 
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Since you do not have to fill out any forms for a private transfer, the government does not know you transferred it. The paper trail ends with the with the last FFL who sold it. That is good. You are under no obligation to tell the government who the buyer of your firearm is.
 
Wow, all good info!

I def don't want to require anything more than what's required by law, which seems like essentially nothing!

So if a handgun is used in a crime and it's tracked back to you, you can just tell the cops you sold it and no questions asked?? You don't have to tell them who it was sold to or show proof it was sold to an lawful person?

I'm not a fan of gun laws, I think they do more harm than good, just surprised in a state I can't buy bourbon on a Sunday I have zero requirements when selling a handgun. I'm NC raised so embarrassed I don't know all this, just always dealt with dealers in the past.
 
Charlie said:
Not exactly. They need to be a NC resident. They need to be old enough to buy the firearm. You cannot knowingly sell to someone who is not legally allowed to own the firearm.
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If im not required to make a bill of sale or retain a copy of the buyers DL, do the police just take your word for it that you sold it to someone over 18 and a NC resident? That'd be a first!
 
Moejoe44 said:
So if a handgun is used in a crime and it's tracked back to you, you can just tell the cops you sold it and no questions asked?? You don't have to tell them who it was sold to or show proof it was sold to an lawful person?
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Unlike an FFL, you as a private seller are NOT required to keep any sort of record of the transaction. You have zero legal obligation to do so. Now think of the situation that @Studentofthegun where you were on the last FFL record of said firearm and they ask you if you know of it's whereabouts. What degree of "proof" or "protection" do you think a piece of paper that could easily be made up or forged is going to buy you compared to simply following the law?

Moejoe44 said:
If im not required to make a bill of sale or retain a copy of the buyers DL, do the police just take your word for it that you sold it to someone over 18 and a NC resident? That'd be a first!
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You are not required to prove your innocence and a BOS doesn't not do so anyway. The onus of responsibility is on them to prove the crime. If you say you sold it in a private transaction, even if you can't recall the buyers name, the responsibility is on them to prove you didn't, not on you to prove you did.
Charlie said:
Not exactly. They need to be a NC resident. They need to be old enough to buy the firearm. You cannot knowingly sell to someone who is not legally allowed to own the firearm.
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This is true, you are legally prohibited from knowingly doing so, but ultimately the legal responsibility is on the buyer, not the seller. As with the bill of sale above, you are under no legal obligation to verify their status. As a practical matter, as others have said, they like to see a DL to verify residency, and age and in this case an exchange of identification helps the buyer too because then they have taken reasonable steps to ensure they're not buying from someone out of state which could be construed as an out of state transfer.
 
BigWaylon said:
It could be as simple as asking the buyer if they’re legal to take possession of the firearm in question. That puts it all on the buyer to be legal (in-state resident & not a prohibited person), and you’ve not knowingly sold to somebody that can’t buy it.

But most people make it more complicated than that.

Your ad, your rules. Just don’t put “all laws apply” and then attach additional requirements. If you want blood type, first grade report card and model of first car…fine. Just list those without the generic “all laws apply”.
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O-

Reading - A
Math - A
Grammar - A
Penmanship - A
Conduct - C

626

What do I get?
 
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