The AUG as a serious use rifle.

I've long thought some bullpups were sexy. Had a Tavor one time. And it was sorta sexy.
But the trigger was "not good" and the accuracy with several types of commercial ammo was "not good" as well.
I hafta think there's a disconnect between the optic rail and the removeable barrel in an AUG. I can't see how the RTZ would work on that but
mebbe I'm just ignorant.
..That said, they are sexy.. And I'm now officially AUG curious.
Turn loose yer inner Governor.. šŸ¤£ :cool:

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I've always liked bullpups. Had an AK bullpup that was kinda cool. I'm still leery of having one for serious use because it seems like malfunctions would be a bear to clear, and because of that Murphy would certainly show himself at the most inconvenient moment.
 
Flashpoint said:
I've always liked bullpups. Had an AK bullpup that was kinda cool. I'm still leery of having one for serious use because it seems like malfunctions would be a bear to clear, and because of that Murphy would certainly show himself at the most inconvenient moment.
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One of the ones Century built per chance?
 
Flashpoint said:
I've always liked bullpups. Had an AK bullpup that was kinda cool. I'm still leery of having one for serious use because it seems like malfunctions would be a bear to clear, and because of that Murphy would certainly show himself at the most inconvenient moment.
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Those things aren't even bullpups so much as they are weird plastic shells to make a normal rifle think it's a bullpup.
 
Flashpoint said:
I've always liked bullpups. Had an AK bullpup that was kinda cool. I'm still leery of having one for serious use because it seems like malfunctions would be a bear to clear, and because of that Murphy would certainly show himself at the most inconvenient moment.
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I understand that and some bullpups would definitely be much more difficult to clear a serious malfunction on that the AUG.

AUG's have a visible chamber so diagnosing the issue would be much easier than an FS2000. If you have a double feed, the method to clear it would be the exact same as an AR or an AK. Drop mag, run charging handle and continue. The barrel can also be easily removed if you have a stuck case

Also, if you were to get a primer in the trigger pack which has happened to me on an AR, you can just take the whole trigger pack out of the back of the stock quite quickly unlike just about traditional style of rifle.
 
I've always liked the idea and look of bullpups. Neat for sure.

I think I've shot most of the available ones now, aside from the Hellion. After shooting them I always feel the same way. The triggers are unbearable, and the ergos jam you into a weird subgun style elbows-in turtle stance. 25" LOP.

Y'all can have them fellas! Just my opinion!
 
I know people always talk about the poor triggers on bullpups due to the long transfer bar, etc, but they don't bother me. They're not my 'accuracy' rifles, and I don't need them to be better to ring steel at hundreds of yards.

Almost everyone can qualify with a stock Colt trigger on an M16A2, iron sights, to 500 yards. None of my AR's have aftermarket triggers in them because I don't shoot them beyond 500, and mostly less than 100, nor do I shoot for groups with those type of rifles.

Out-of-the-box, most won't like a bullpup's trigger, But put several hundred rounds out of it, get used to it, then see if you want an upgrade.
 
Dan0311 said:
I know people always talk about the poor triggers on bullpups due to the long transfer bar, etc, but they don't bother me. They're not my 'accuracy' rifles, and I don't need them to be better to ring steel at hundreds of yards.

Almost everyone can qualify with a stock Colt trigger on an M16A2, iron sights, to 500 yards. None of my AR's have aftermarket triggers in them because I don't shoot them beyond 500, and mostly less than 100, nor do I shoot for groups with those type of rifles.

Out-of-the-box, most won't like a bullpup's trigger, But put several hundred rounds out of it, get used to it, then see if you want an upgrade.
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"Qualify" for what?
 
NKD said:
Was just curious. If "almost everyone can do it" it seems to be a pretty low standard, indeed.
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I thought I was clear, but what I meant was that if someone - many - that have never shot a rifle can be taught to shoot targets at 500 yards with a stock AR trigger and iron sights - I think most can be pretty accurate with a stock bullpup trigger within a few hundred yards.

The USMC might have had a "low standard" to qual out to 500, or, they just trained folks in 2 weeks to get good, and with an average trigger.
 
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Dan0311 said:
I thought I was clear, but what I meant was that if someone - many - that have never shot a rifle can be taught to shoot targets at 500 yards with a stock AR trigger and iron sights - I think most can be pretty accurate with a stock bullpup trigger within a few hundred yards.

The USMC might have had a "low standard" to qual out to 500, or, they just trained folks in 2 weeks to get good, and with an average trigger.
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I was asking because it didnā€™t seem clear to me at all. ā€œQualifyā€ can mean any number of things when discussing guns.

Personally, if you can ā€œget goodā€ in two weeks, then yes that is absolutely a very low standard, lol. For literally anything that takes any technique or ability at all.

But I get your point: you donā€™t mind milspec triggers in ARs or stock triggers in bullpup. Youā€™ll save money for sure!
 
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NKD said:
I was asking because it didnā€™t seem clear to me at all. ā€œQualifyā€ can mean any number of things when discussing guns.

Personally, if you can ā€œget goodā€ in two weeks, then yes that is absolutely a very low standard, lol. For literally anything that takes any technique or ability at all.

But I get your point: you donā€™t mind milspec triggers in ARs or stock triggers in bullpup. Youā€™ll save money for sure!
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Yep, I got it. I thought it was clear, but it wasn't for you so I 'esplaned' myself better, lol.

If you think the Marine Corps has a low standard in passing their rifle quals, that's ok. The range was the easiest 2 weeks on Parris Island, so I don't think you'd get too many complaints if they extended that! But I've been to training across the country for decades; patrol rifle schools, FBI carbine instructor school, HK schools, yadda, yadda, yadda - and nothing compared to what I learned on the range on P.I. oh-so-many years ago. I also don't know many who've invested even 2 long weeks of intense (130+ hrs in 14 days) of professional rifle instruction.

My Colt Elite came with a factory enhanced trigger - that's an awesome trigger compared to stock. But that's a longer range, or more precision set-up. My 200 yd and in set-ups (almost everything) has standard triggers that I have grown used to and use well.
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Like most things, it's a matter of training. The best handgun shooter I've ever seen used a stock Glock 19 with a NY trigger! He worked on the side for Blackwater and others, but got used to that - the worst trigger - and can shoot circles around good shooters with aftermarket triggers, because he put in the time and maybe some special, natural ability.
 
Dan0311 said:
Yep, I got it. I thought it was clear, but it wasn't for you so I 'esplaned' myself better, lol.

If you think the Marine Corps has a low standard in passing their rifle quals, that's ok. The range was the easiest 2 weeks on Parris Island, so I don't think you'd get too many complaints if they extended that! But I've been to training across the country for decades; patrol rifle schools, FBI carbine instructor school, HK schools, yadda, yadda, yadda - and nothing compared to what I learned on the range on P.I. oh-so-many years ago. I also don't know many who've invested even 2 long weeks of intense (130+ hrs in 14 days) of professional rifle instruction.

My Colt Elite came with a factory enhanced trigger - that's an awesome trigger compared to stock. But that's a longer range, or more precision set-up. My 200 yd and in set-ups (almost everything) has standard triggers that I have grown used to and use well.
View attachment 676450

Like most things, it's a matter of training. The best handgun shooter I've ever seen used a stock Glock 19 with a NY trigger! He worked on the side for Blackwater and others, but got used to that - the worst trigger - and can shoot circles around good shooters with aftermarket triggers, because he put in the time and maybe some special, natural ability.
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I don't think it's a low standard for the Marines.
I think it's a low standard for me. I would expect it to be foundational and a great place to start.

Interesting that guy chooses a NY trigger. First guy I have ever heard of who prefers it. I think NY went away from them as it decreased their performance and accuracy. We need to send them over to the marines for that two weeks of training!

Just my opinions!
 
NKD said:
I don't think it's a low standard for the Marines.
I think it's a low standard for me. I would expect it to be foundational and a great place to start.

Interesting that guy chooses a NY trigger. First guy I have ever heard of who prefers it. I think NY went away from them as it decreased their performance and accuracy. We need to send them over to the marines for that two weeks of training!

Just my opinions!
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He was an NYPD officer for several decades, so that was his duty gun after switched from revolvers. Wouldn't make sense to get used to a 'nice' trigger when training, instructing or contracting overseas, then have to carry an NY trigger while back on duty.

I carried a DAO revolver for my first 5 years, and crime was approx. 6 X worse then than it is now.....you get used to what you have to.
 
This thread made me look this up and try and learn something. Very interesting. You can click through tabs and get more info and course of fire.
For those who haven't done it, of course.

Annual Rifle Qualification

www.tecom.marines.mil
 
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very-interesting.gif

Now how bout they get those Austrian engineers to work on that trigger.. šŸ˜
 
HawgBonz said:
very-interesting.gif

Now how bout they get those Austrian engineers to work on that trigger.. šŸ˜
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Gotta go that 3rd party route with a complete redesign! The OEM design is unsalvagable. It isn't even drop safe stock and reducing spring power makes it even less drop safe.

3d printing community makes results -

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